[Archived] Extra ! Extra ! Read All About It !

[JBiz]

Ah! now your real reasons are coming out. It's jealousy of the ones who have more and you want it taken off them. Although I know you will deny it. What relevance my views on immigration has got to do with it I don't know.

If you read them I believe that immigrants are reducing the wages for your precious 99% so your point evades me.

What part of "what I want is irrelevant" is so hard to understand?

The point still remains, whilst the government cuts budgets for the most deprived areas, it saves money to consilidate losses from "friends". Selling services off to family for pittance. It's so self serving!

The views you've held in the past on immigration matter when you are talking about wealth making IMO. As pointed out, nobody has ever invested in this country - if it's cheap, we'll have it. The same has applied to labour, bringing dozens of economic migrants for centuries. Who benefits the most? The family earning 10x what they'd get in their own town? Or the business owner paying for cheap labour?

End of the day, it's the complaints about foreign aid that this stems from. It would take some statistics from someone to change my previously stated views.

[jim mk2]

Political bombshell tonight: turns out the govt has been blocking EU attempts to restrict Chinese steel dumping, thus helping to force the Tata crisis.

Which explains why the Chinese president was given the red carpet treatment by Cameron and Osborne recently.

And with the steel industry on the point of collapse, the business secretary swanned off to Australia with his daughter on a jolly.

This wretched govt goes from bad to worse.

[VinjayV4]

The Tories have no interest in manufacturing and haven't had in my life time. That's why we're in the state we are now. They just want to buy it the cheapest. Doesn't matter what it is or where it's from - as long as it's cheaper that's fine.

Well at least they didn't buy Walkersteel on the cheap LOL.

[Baz]

£280m per year in foreign aid to India alone (who have a space programme). Wouldn't that give the steel industry and it's 15,000 at risk British employees a leg up ?

Its pretty obviously a bribe for buying British (particularly defence goods), dressed up as aid.

Article on foreign aid, which makes up 0.7% of income.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-five-biggest-myths-surrounding-overseas-aid-9691982.html

[Gav]

The Tories have no interest in manufacturing and haven't had in my life time. That's why we're in the state we are now. They just want to buy it the cheapest. Doesn't matter what it is or where it's from - as long as it's cheaper that's fine.

Not sure I'd just blame the Tories, I don't think it matters who's running the country they'd treat Tata exactly the same.

But what I would say though is a labour or lib dem Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills wouldn't have been flying off to Australia for a trade fair when the sh1t hit the fan.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Political bombshell tonight: turns out the govt has been blocking EU attempts to restrict Chinese steel dumping, thus helping to force the Tata crisis.

Which explains why the Chinese president was given the red carpet treatment by Cameron and Osborne recently.

And with the steel industry on the point of collapse, the business secretary swanned off to Australia with his daughter on a jolly.

This wretched govt goes from bad to worse.

The Tories blocking the EU attempts at introducing new tariffs on Chinese steel is old news Jim. I saw that Savid Javid in Zook in Manchester a while back, what a smug keaner he is. Has he managed to get back from Australia yet ? I heard he'd missed his flight.

[Baz]

Not sure I'd just blame the Tories, I don't think it matters who's running the country they'd treat Tata exactly the same.

But what I would say though is a labour or lib dem Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills wouldn't have been flying off to Australia for a trade fair when the sh1t hit the fan.

He's taken his 16 year old daughter on holiday to Australia 'at no expense to the tax payer' (according to a spokesperson), and talking at a trade fair. Given the 'recess' they get from parliament, id be more surprised if they'd managed to find him there. Below are the dates they are free for holidays provided by the likes of emirates airlines (his £7k fully funded Christmas 'break').

Easter 24 March 2016 11 April 2016

Early May Bank Holiday 28 April 2016 3 May 2016

Whitsun 26 May 2016 6 June 2016

Recess 15 June 2016 27 June 2016

Summer 21 July 2016 5 September 2016

Conference 15 September 2016 10 October 2016

November 8 November 2016 14 November 2016

Christmas 20 December 2016 9 January 2017

[Steve Moss]

Excellent article about certain Muslim neighborhood's failure to integrate in the West.

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-attacks-terrorism-europe-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/

[joey_big_nose]

Excellent article about certain Muslim neighborhood's failure to integrate in the West.

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-attacks-terrorism-europe-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/

The problem I have with this opinion is the actual bombings have been perpetrated and supported by a few dozen people yet the piece draws its conclusions across "50%" of Muslims"

(incidentally if 5 million muslims across Europe want to destroy us why have their efforts been limited to four substantial attacks in 10 years? Why have the three million muslims who live in the US who have access to heavy weapons as all americans do caused so little damage?)

Its this sort of collective logic which is stupid, one that only leads down a road to persecution. Our entire moral and legal systems are dependent on treating people as distinct individuals, not people we can profile en masse on the basis of religion or political affiliation.

[Gav]

He's taken his 16 year old daughter on holiday to Australia 'at no expense to the tax payer' (according to a spokesperson), and talking at a trade fair. Given the 'recess' they get from parliament, id be more surprised if they'd managed to find him there. Below are the dates they are free for holidays provided by the likes of emirates airlines (his £7k fully funded Christmas 'break').

Easter 24 March 2016 11 April 2016

Early May Bank Holiday 28 April 2016 3 May 2016

Whitsun 26 May 2016 6 June 2016

Recess 15 June 2016 27 June 2016

Summer 21 July 2016 5 September 2016

Conference 15 September 2016 10 October 2016

November 8 November 2016 14 November 2016

Christmas 20 December 2016 9 January 2017

Javid went to Australia at the Tax payers expense and intended to have a holiday once he'd spoken at the trade show. He was fully aware of the Tata crisis but only after being 'ordered' back did he come back.

I'm all for people having holidays, but at times the job comes first, he should resign, he got this very wrong a bit like his tax avoided bonus from the bank.

[Al]

What part of "what I want is irrelevant" is so hard to understand?

The point still remains, whilst the government cuts budgets for the most deprived areas, it saves money to consilidate losses from "friends". Selling services off to family for pittance. It's so self serving!

The views you've held in the past on immigration matter when you are talking about wealth making IMO. As pointed out, nobody has ever invested in this country - if it's cheap, we'll have it. The same has applied to labour, bringing dozens of economic migrants for centuries. Who benefits the most? The family earning 10x what they'd get in their own town? Or the business owner paying for cheap labour?

End of the day, it's the complaints about foreign aid that this stems from. It would take some statistics from someone to change my previously stated views.

Not hard to understand. I just don't believe you.

What the rest of your post has to do with sending money abroad defeats me. You are just trying to provoke an argument with irrelevances. I'm not rising to the bait. You, with one possible exception, are the most argumentative poster on the forum.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Its this sort of collective logic which is stupid, one that only leads down a road to persecution. Our entire moral and legal systems are dependent on treating people as distinct individuals, not people we can profile en masse on the basis of religion or political affiliation.

Is it stupid? How is it possible to identify any sociological trends without grouping people in some manner? How is it possible to govern millions of people without grouping them in some manner? People are grouped all the time, whether positively or negatively. We're all being grouped tomorrow with the police deciding a 12:30 kick off time was necessary for a local derby.

Disassociating every problem from its underlying causes, basically saying there is no underlying cause, only very specific individual causes in all cases, is what's really stupid. And is why dismayingly little progress has been made on integration of Muslims in any western country.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/11340500.TV_probe_into_Islamic_Blackburn_primary_school_aired/?ref=var_0

This is from a couple of years ago but is the type of thing I'm talking about. Who knows what Muslim kids are being taught in after school Madrasas etc? Personally had enough of people saying extremist Islam has nothing to do with Islam, as hard as this is to swallow, its blatantly untrue.

[Al]

Excellent article about certain Muslim neighborhood's failure to integrate in the West.

http://www.politico.eu/article/brussels-attacks-terrorism-europe-muslims-brussels-attacks-airport-metro/

No surprise there Steve. Muslims never have and never will want to integrate with the host countries. Generally they want to alter the society to the Muslim way of life.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

So a kid who regularly carried weapons into school and then used one to stab another kid in the chest, gets 9 years. Adam Johnson got 6 years.

Something not at all right there. Not sure whether Johnson was punished harshly or if the kid was punished extremely leniently (as all murderers seem to be).

[JBiz]

No surprise there Steve. Muslims never have and never will want to integrate with the host countries. Generally they want to alter the society to the Muslim way of life.

I've never met anyone whose tried to put their religion on me personally, I'd love to hear your examples.

I've never once felt like my life is being altered by immigration. Maybe it's a generation thing, no offence intended.

[oldjamfan1]

So a kid who regularly carried weapons into school and then used one to stab another kid in the chest, gets 9 years. Adam Johnson got 6 years.

Something not at all right there. Not sure whether Johnson was punished harshly or if the kid was punished extremely leniently (as all murderers seem to be).

And the feeling here in Scotland is that the kid got quite a heavy sentence - heavier than was expected anyway. The judge certainly made remarks to that effect.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I've never met anyone whose tried to put their religion on me personally, I'd love to hear your examples.

I've never once felt like my life is being altered by immigration. Maybe it's a generation thing, no offence intended.

I think its very much a where you live thing. I know a few people who haven't had the cash, opportunity or desire to follow the white flight evacuation of certain areas of Blackburn, and they have a few stories of low to mid level racism/harassment. Nobody is aware of what's going on because nobody wants to know, its easier to pretend nothing is whilst everythings fine where you (collective you there) live.

[JBiz]

I think its very much a where you live thing. I know a few people who haven't had the cash, opportunity or desire to follow the white flight evacuation of certain areas of Blackburn, and they have a few stories of low to mid level racism/harassment. Nobody is aware of what's going on because nobody wants to know, its easier to pretend nothing is whilst everythings fine where you (collective you there) live.

But I lived in Blackburn and Accrington for most of my life? Generally in the terraced areas. I also went to a comp school of different students.

White flight - or whatever it's called, it's such a joke to hear those people complain about integration, when they've moved away!!

[yoda]

But I lived in Blackburn and Accrington for most of my life? Generally in the terraced areas. I also went to a comp school of different students.

White flight - or whatever it's called, it's such a joke to hear those people complain about integration, when they've moved away!!

Where do you live now

[JBiz]

Where do you live now

Oswaldtwistle

[joey_big_nose]

Is it stupid? How is it possible to identify any sociological trends without grouping people in some manner? How is it possible to govern millions of people without grouping them in some manner? People are grouped all the time, whether positively or negatively. We're all being grouped tomorrow with the police deciding a 12:30 kick off time was necessary for a local derby.

Identifying a trend to police effectively is one thing. But to take legal action to deny access/rights on a collective basis - whether it be not letting Muslims into America, making Jews wear stars or forcing black people into slavery - is quite another.

If in your example you were being forced to watch the game at 12.30 because you were Christian, white or educated it would be an appropriate parallell to draw.

Can you name a single incident where a use of blanket legislation to target an ethnic, racial or political group has ever turned out to be a good idea in the fullness of time?

[Steve Moss]

The problem I have with this opinion is the actual bombings have been perpetrated and supported by a few dozen people yet the piece draws its conclusions across "50%" of Muslims"

(incidentally if 5 million muslims across Europe want to destroy us why have their efforts been limited to four substantial attacks in 10 years? Why have the three million muslims who live in the US who have access to heavy weapons as all americans do caused so little damage?)

Its this sort of collective logic which is stupid, one that only leads down a road to persecution. Our entire moral and legal systems are dependent on treating people as distinct individuals, not people we can profile en masse on the basis of religion or political affiliation.

You may have a hard time realizing this, but very few people are willing to kill, on a percentage basis. Even soldiers, who are purposely desensitized, have a low percentage of those actually willing to take a life, as opposed to firing blindly over a wall. Many sign up to fight, but not a lot will intentionally take another's life though they like to think they would.

Revolutions and guerrilla movements, and terror movements, typically have a limited number of killers, but many, many passive supporters. That's why a few terrorists can escape detection for months in neighborhoods like Moolenbeek. Their neighbors will fall into two categories, those that agree with the murdering scum (Allah is great, we must conquer the West, English girls want to be raped, etc.) or those too afraid to speak out.

That's why one of my suggestions from a few days back was to break up these neighborhoods. Don't let immigrates congregate into one area. Make sure the rate is about 1 immigrant family to 100 native families. It makes it easier to assimilate the next generation and deprives the actual killers from having bases they can vanish into with the help of a consenting/coerced population.

Identifying a trend to police effectively is one thing. But to take legal action on a collective basis - whether it be not letting Muslims into America, making Jews wear stars or forcing black people into slavery - is quite another.

No non-citizen has any right to enter America. So we are free to allow or disallow, for any reason, good or bad, that we see fit.

I would think the UK would have the same view, but if you want to give people the unrestricted right to entry, good luck to you.

[joey_big_nose]

You may have a hard time realizing this, but very few people are willing to kill, on a percentage basis. Even soldiers, who are purposely desensitized, have a low percentage of those actually willing to take a life, as opposed to firing blindly over a wall. Many sign up to fight, but not a lot will intentionally take another's life though they like to think they would.

Revolutions and guerrilla movements, and terror movements, typically have a limited number of killers, but many, many passive supporters. That's why a few terrorists can escape detection for months in neighborhoods like Moolenbeek. Their neighbors will fall into two categories, those that agree with the murdering scum (Allah is great, we must conquer the West, English girls want to be raped, etc.) or those too afraid to speak out.

That's why one of my suggestions from a few days back was to break up these neighborhoods. Don't let immigrates congregate into one area. Make sure the rate is about 1 immigrant family to 100 native families. It makes it easier to assimilate the next generation and deprives the actual killers from having bases they can vanish into with the help of a consenting/coerced population.

No non-citizen has any right to enter America. So we are free to allow or disallow, for any reason, good or bad, that we see fit.

I would think the UK would have the same view, but if you want to give people the unrestricted right to entry, good luck to you.

I dont have an issue recognising your opening paragraph, it makes perfect sense to me. I too believe very few people are disposed to kill easily.

Regarding breaking up neighbourhoods, that would mean forced settlement of people. Again not something European or American legal frameworks are setup to do. It would require issuing of credentials while the actively police track and manage the movement of "non-citizens" to confine them to approved areas.

It just does not actually seem neccessary to me to taken such extreme action, and creating such an authoritarian approach I am not sure would promote integration, it is more likely to undermine it surely?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

But I lived in Blackburn and Accrington for most of my life? Generally in the terraced areas. I also went to a comp school of different students.

White flight - or whatever it's called, it's such a joke to hear those people complain about integration, when they've moved away!!

There's a big difference between mixed areas and predominantly Asian areas. Try living in Whalley Range or Audley for a few years, with an unashamedly western lifestyle, and tell me what you think then. Because my friends have had "slag" and other derogatory terms shouted at them for walking down the street in a skirt, they've been asked what they're doing out so late if they've come back from a night out late or decided to walk their dog late, they have someone blocking their drive, parking all along double yellows up and down the street, every time an event is on at the religious centre on their street. There's a workplace across from where they live where fairly large groups of men regularly congregate, revving cars, dealing drugs (I've seen it) and starting questionable conversations with teenage girls (which I've also seen). I got asked where I was going one time when I was walking to their house at about 8pm in winter, I just laughed at them but was seething inside.

Rough areas are rough areas and there are plenty of problems for people living in predominantly white ones too. But there are a whole new set of issues that mass immigration has brought and all I'm saying is just because you haven't experienced them, don't make the mistake of assuming nobody else does. Its a mistake made by a great many people who live in areas of the country with little/no mixed demographics.

[yoda]

Oswaldtwistle

Not been accepted fully yet then.

Being from there myself originally I would have said Ossy