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[JBiz]

Yes maybe we should cut off our nose to spite our face. What is the point if it means we collect less tax? To do this would be primarily jealousy based as is most of socialist policy.

Jealousy.....

If you think it's ok for rich people to do as such, whilst the rest of us are paying so much, I have no words acceptable to this website.

This isn't about Tory/socialist agenda. It's about morals, and it's not a new thing to work out a large part of the population have none.

I don't buy the "you're a mug if you don't do it, cos all other people with big earnings are"

That's just perpetuation of this anti moral code.

I read an article about some of the wealthiest in New York offering to pay more in taxes as they could afford it. Could you ever imagine that happening in this country?

No because you'd be ridiculed by your rich chums...

[Al]

It shouldn't have to come to that though, successive governments have allowed this to happen for years. It simply should never have been allowed to happen.

I read an article about some of the wealthiest in New York offering to pay more in taxes as they could afford it. Could you ever imagine that happening in this country?

1/ You can't stop people from going abroad. It's a right that everyone has and no legislation can stop that.

2/ No I can't. The British are not stupid enough to pay tax they don't have to.

Jealousy.....

If you think it's ok for rich people to do as such, whilst the rest of us are paying so much, I have no words acceptable to this website.

This isn't about Tory/socialist agenda. It's about morals, and it's not a new thing to work out a large part of the population have none.

I don't buy the "you're a mug if you don't do it, cos all other people with big earnings are"

That's just perpetuation of this anti moral code.

No because you'd be ridiculed by your rich chums...

What has morals got to do with having your hard earned money taken off you in tax?

[K-Hod]

Like I said before Al, I'll go into work on Monday and paraphrase all this, I'll let you know how I get on. I pay 20% of my earnings to HMRC, there shouldn't be any exceptions, especially if you're wealthy. Equality is all I'm seeking, nothing more.

[JBiz]

1/ You can't stop people from going abroad. It's a right that everyone has and no legislation can stop that.

2/ No I can't. The British are not stupid enough to pay tax they don't have to.

What has morals got to do with having your hard earned money taken off you in tax?

Morals have a lot to do with tax.

What is tax spent on? Public services.

If you use any of those and refuse to pay it, you are a scum bag. If you made your fortune here, with British produce, employees and support - you have no morals, or ethical code if you don't pay anything back.

You know those Irish travellers who live in caravans? Now I know there's a word used for those lot, but my hatred for how they beat the system, just leaving a mess behind is based on a lack of moral code.

They have no decency, or respect for the country they live in, yet they demand "rights"..

I'm sure you get as annoyed as I do from them swanning around in 50k caravans without paying any VAT or council tax, isn't it worse when actually Britons are doing this on a billion pound scale?

[Gav]

Cameron said he did benefit from what is basically an offshore hedge fund, just like pension funds all over the world do, and he declared the profit on his tax return. It's hardly a hanging offence is it? Of course his socialist opponents will seize onto anything they can to discredit him simply because he is a conservative.

Downing street said on Monday it was a private matter, they said on Tuesday him, his wife and kids did not benefit, they said on Wednesday he did not benefit and then on Thursday Cameron said he had £30k off shore!

Cameron publicly called people who invested in similar schemes "morally wrong", he attacked Jimmy Carr in the press for doing the same.

He should resign because he's a liar Al, not because he's a Tory, and if his Chancellor is guilty of the same he should take him with him!

[JBiz]

Cameron also used the term "morally wrong" when describing Jimmy Carr and other celebrities rat holes!

[Al]

Morals have a lot to do with tax.

What is tax spent on? Public services.

If you use any of those and refuse to pay it, you are a scum bag. If you made your fortune here, with British produce, employees and support - you have no morals, or ethical code if you don't pay anything back.

You know those Irish travellers who live in caravans? Now I know there's a word used for those lot, but my hatred for how they beat the system, just leaving a mess behind is based on a lack of moral code.

They have no decency, or respect for the country they live in, yet they demand "rights"..

I'm sure you get as annoyed as I do from them swanning around in 50k caravans without paying any VAT or council tax, isn't it worse when actually Britons are doing this on a billion pound scale?

We are never going to agree on anything, possible exception of travellers. I repeat, you can't stop people going abroad where there hard earned money has less taxed from it. I feel no moral responsibility to dole dossers. I've paid at least my fair share of tax and NI in my working life and am still paying tax on my pensions (which I consider to be morally wrong) but I'm not prepared to emigrate to stop paying it. Others might see it differently.

[JBiz]

We are never going to agree on anything, possible exception of travellers. I repeat, you can't stop people going abroad where there hard earned money has less taxed from it. I feel no moral responsibility to dole dossers. I've paid at least my fair share of tax and NI in my working life and am still paying tax on my pensions (which I consider to be morally wrong) but I'm not prepared to emigrate to stop paying it. Others might see it differently.

I agree on the pension - prime example of a hard working individual who's saved up for retirement being punished.

It's not fair at all, especially when you compare that to someone who's never worked or could retire earlier through advantageous arrangements with their investments.

I'm sure you're not jealous, and I don't think you are - I would expect the same thing. Dole dossiers is a bit of oversight - I do feel for many who can't work and the irony is they are losing 1000's a year in support.

We both know there are some who claim unnecessary benefits, you don't need to remind me. The cost of this is but a fraction of what we lose through tax exiles.

The world, not just the country needs to get together and sort this out as SKH rightly points out, equality is getting further and further away. That's not a communist theory about everyone earning the same, it's the honest approximation that everyone should get what they've worked for!

When the prime minister is an example of those earning extra money through "avoidance"..

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Yes maybe we should cut off our nose to spite our face. What is the point if it means we collect less tax? To do this would be primarily jealousy based as is most of socialist policy.

Do see your point, the most beneficial situation for the poor is as much tax collected as possible. So whilst we're not collecting the most we should, it could be argued we're at least collecting the most we can.

The sticking point for me though is that the wealth gap is getting bigger at a very fast rate, and I think that could ultimately be dangerous. If the situation was stable I could probably get used to it, as you say comforted by the idea that we're at least collecting the maximum possible tax. But combine climate change, dwindling accessible fossil fuel reserves, huge population growth and a rising wealth gap, and IMO you've got a recipe for a hellish future society of enclosed paradises of the wealthy walled off from starving wastelands of the many.

Absolutely agree, and I hope something is done about it.

Watching BBCQT last night said a couple of things;

1. People are starting to get really bloody fed up with this government.

2. The way the rich abuse taxation systems is almost seen as "fair" in the eyes the most staunched conservatives.

I think where we differ is that you seem to be assigning this as a Conservative problem, whereas I'd expect no different from Labour. Sturgeon proved to be all talk no action on the issue and I'd expect Corbyn to be the same. If he gave a cast iron promise that he was going to really tackle tax evasion/avoidance, I would consider voting for him. But at present I'm worried that he'd just make the right noises and actually do nothing, a la Sturgeon, in which case I'd have sacrificed the things I do disagree with Labour on for nothing.

[K-Hod]

The crux of the matter for me, is that you earn your money in this country and use its services, you pay your way, it's as simple as that. It's probably fair to say I'm not a fan of the Conservatives, but Labour have done diddly squat to address this problem either.

[T J Hooker]

Cameron also used the term "morally wrong" when describing Jimmy Carr and other celebrities rat holes!

At least celebrities like jimmy Carr bring a lot of plesure and enjoyment to peoples lives not sure the same can be said for politicians, also i imagine a lot of entertainers just leave there finances to accountants

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Cameron also used the term "morally wrong" when describing Jimmy Carr and other celebrities rat holes!

Its a complete joke isn't it. The whole episode has certainly given me pause for thought for the next election. I've never liked this side of the Conservatives but I've tended to let it slide in the past because I agree with their stance on other things and I'm inclined to think the Labour top brass are just as bad (at least pre-Corbyn). But I'd forgotten how angry it makes me and how little I have in common with wealthy Conservatives on a personal level.

[Paul]

On the question of pensions being taxed it is absolutely correct and should be taxed.

The state pension is not taxed as it is below the tax threshold and I guess always will be.

Private pension contributions receive tax relief st one's usual rate. During one's working life no tax is paid on the portion of income which goes to a private fund and the tax which has been deducted is added to one's own contribution. This helps grow the value of the investment for pension purposes.

When the pension becomes income it is taxed. Tax relief on pension contributions is only a deferment of the tax due in the earned income years. It does not make the earned income tax free.

If that portion of one's earned income was tax free it would be grossly unfair on those unable to afford a private pension.

[Gav]

Its a complete joke isn't it. The whole episode has certainly given me pause for thought for the next election. I've never liked this side of the Conservatives but I've tended to let it slide in the past because I agree with their stance on other things and I'm inclined to think the Labour top brass are just as bad (at least pre-Corbyn). But I'd forgotten how angry it makes me and how little I have in common with wealthy Conservatives on a personal level.

I'd be very surprised if Blair wasn't part of this current scandal, but the rest of the Labour Party top brass I'm not sure most earn enough to hide cash away to avoid tax.

It'll be interesting to watch this play out because I have no doubt the Tory machine will be busy trying to unearth opposition Tax avoiders as we speak.

[yoda]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/tax/11411790/Britains-highest-earners-pay-a-quarter-of-nations-income-tax.html

[Gav]

You can't read the Torygraph if you have adblocker, long may adblocker continue I say

[yoda]

One of the main points from official figures used in the articles show that 1% of the population in the UK now pay nearly 28% of the taxes up from 25% when Labour were in power.

[Baz]

One of the main points from official figures used in the articles show that 1% of the population in the UK now pay nearly 28% of the taxes up from 25% when Labour were in power.

Surely this week shows that the top 1% pay no income tax in the UK anyway.

[yoda]

I think it shows that they could pay a lot more actually, would it not be good to get the percentage up to say 60% ?

[Al]

On the question of pensions being taxed it is absolutely correct and should be taxed.

The state pension is not taxed as it is below the tax threshold and I guess always will be.

Private pension contributions receive tax relief st one's usual rate. During one's working life no tax is paid on the portion of income which goes to a private fund and the tax which has been deducted is added to one's own contribution. This helps grow the value of the investment for pension purposes.

When the pension becomes income it is taxed. Tax relief on pension contributions is only a deferment of the tax due in the earned income years. It does not make the earned income tax free.

If that portion of one's earned income was tax free it would be grossly unfair on those unable to afford a private pension.

Of course the state pension is taxed. It is added to your other pensions and the tax code is calculated on the gross. Maybe you have been misinformed.

[Paul]

Of course the state pension is taxed. It is added to your other pensions and the tax code is calculated on the gross. Maybe you have been misinformed.

The state pension is not sufficient to place those who receive it as their only source of income above the tax threshold. Therefore no tax is due. The state pension does not attract tax relief from earned income as it is in fact a benefit and not a true pension be ing paid by NI contributions.

Individuals who contribute to other forms of pension from their earned income receive tax relief on those contributions. If these private pensions, which come in a variety of forms, take someone's income above the tax threshold it is taxed.

Private pensions contributions effectively defer one's tax bill until retirement which is why pensioners have to pay tax. It was paid in working life and should be later.

[Beta Ray Bill]

The Jimmy Carr situation was a somewhat different scale...

http://www.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2322473/comic-jimmy-carr-to-pay-gbp500-000-tax-bill

[Al]

The state pension is not sufficient to place those who receive it as their only source of income above the tax threshold. Therefore no tax is due. The state pension does not attract tax relief from earned income as it is in fact a benefit and not a true pension be ing paid by NI contributions.

Individuals who contribute to other forms of pension from their earned income receive tax relief on those contributions. If these private pensions, which come in a variety of forms, take someone's income above the tax threshold it is taxed.

Private pensions contributions effectively defer one's tax bill until retirement which is why pensioners pay tax. It was paid in working life and should be later.

Try to twist it any way you want Paul but I pay tax on my state pension. You may call the state pension a benefit if you wish but as far as I am concerned it was bought and paid for during my working life, just as presumably you are currently paying into the coffers for yours when you retire.

[VinjayV4]

Cameron has survived over 48 hours now having come through that I'm sure he will be fine. The biggest risk is if his party turns against him rather than public protests. People tend to exaggerate like when people were acting as if the country was on the verge of "total anarchy" after the 2011 riots. Really that was something I knew would settle down after a few days and expect Cameron will come through it.

If there was a betting market open (none on William Hill) that would be an indication too. On Ladbrokes its 7/4 he will go in 2016 and same 7/4 in 2019. Will look for one with a simple "YES" or "NO" for this year and bet on NO.

Care more about how much the Windsors get to be honest for absolutely ridiculous reasons in this day and age.

Bizarre how low the PM salary is for such a tough job. Though obviously Blair has shown there's tons of other financial opportunities after holding the position.

Resign Cameron isn't even getting the most tweets now. The Grand National is.

[dave birch]

State Pension? Whats that?

I've paid taxes wherever I've lived.

Do I get a state pension? No.

Why, because I've accumulated enough assets and because I and my mrs continue to work.

If I were eligible for the pension, I'd have less money in my pocket. Why would I want to do that?

Time to get off the state bandwagon and do things for yourself.