[Archived] Rant (4?)

[Paul]

Did anyone suggest cyclists should not be overtaken? No.

The point is the space a driver should give a cyclist. Would a driver risk overtaking a car when the clearance is narrow? Unlikely as it threatens the driver's car and personal safety. The same logic applies to a cyclist.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The trouble is that to be safely done, the manoeuvre requires no cars to be coming in the opposite direction so you can swing out wide enough. And on England's ever more clogged roads, its becoming increasingly rare that there won't be traffic coming from the other direction. So drivers need to either crawl behind a cyclist and wait for 10/20/30+ seconds before overtaking, or drive dangerously.

There's never been any consideration for cyclists when building roads as far as I'm aware. There's no room for them on the pavement and no room for them on the roads. But cycling is brilliant for the environment and people's health so its a tricky one. I think there'll always be conflict between cyclists and motorists to be honest, and even in places where cars are expected to be banned like Oslo, there'll just be conflict between cyclists and pedestrians instead.

[Jimmy612]

Cyclists can argue till the cows come home but from my experiences as a driver I wouldn't be happy letting my children to either ride a cycle or ride a horse on public roads. There are far too many bad drivers of one sort or another around.

[T J Hooker]

Did anyone suggest cyclists should not be overtaken? No.

The point is the space a driver should give a cyclist. Would a driver risk overtaking a car when the clearance is narrow? Unlikely as it threatens the driver's car and personal safety. The same logic applies to a cyclist.

sorry but i was responding more to mike Ellison's statement that vehicles can only overtake if there's another lane for them to do so(which there rarely is on pubic roads, aside from motorways and dual carriageways)

[yoda]

There is, and this is a distinction which those who rant about cyclists need to take on board, a significant difference between people on bikes and club cyclists or others who take their sport very seriously. It doesn't surprise me some people take this view but it is highly inaccurate.

I 100% agree there are idiots who endanger themselves and other road users through attricious riding behaviour. These tend to be, but not exclusively, people on bikes. My club, Chorley Cycling Club, and others I have belonged to has very strict rules attached to membership in regard to cycling behaviour.

I can guarantee you a serious cyclist, or motorcyclist, has far better spacial awareness and road craft than the average driver. It's simply a survival instinct.

You've presumed all cyclists are men. Why? I know many very good, very skilled female riders.

As for discrimination and stereotypes this happens at every stage of insurance. Simply your post code will stereotype you and influence your premium. As will your age. I don't work in insurance but it's clear to me this is risk assessment, pure and simple.

Mike I think you'll find the Highway Code says two abreast not three. That aside you are quite correct a cyclist should be treated as any other vehicle.

In regard to overtaking one should allow a cyclist 1.5 metres of space. Any driver not doing so is breaking the Highway Code. Equally when a cyclists passes parked cars the safe road position means riding a door width from the parked vehicle - meaning the cyclist is entitled to effectively take the entire lane.

I strongly suggest people read the Highway Code before ranting about some aspects of cyclists behaviour. It's always better to speak from a position of knowledge.

What is the ratio of serious cyclists who belong to clubs that hopefully follow the highway code and general cyclists who,

ignore traffic lights,

pull in front of you at junctions,

ignore round about etiquette,

squeeze past you on the left at junctions when there is hardly any room,

don't use signals so that other road users know their intent especially when turning right,

give you the "V's" when you let them know (via the horn) that you are near them and to pay attention,

suddenly demount at junctions to get through by bypassing the lights or road signs.

[Pedro]

There is, and this is a distinction which those who rant about cyclists need to take on board, a significant difference between people on bikes and club cyclists or others who take their sport very seriously. It doesn't surprise me some people take this view but it is highly inaccurate.

I 100% agree there are idiots who endanger themselves and other road users through attricious riding behaviour. These tend to be, but not exclusively, people on bikes. My club, Chorley Cycling Club, and others I have belonged to has very strict rules attached to membership in regard to cycling behaviour.

I can guarantee you a serious cyclist, or motorcyclist, has far better spacial awareness and road craft than the average driver. It's simply a survival instinct.

You've presumed all cyclists are men. Why? I know many very good, very skilled female riders.

As for discrimination and stereotypes this happens at every stage of insurance. Simply your post code will stereotype you and influence your premium. As will your age. I don't work in insurance but it's clear to me this is risk assessment, pure and simple.

Mike I think you'll find the Highway Code says two abreast not three. That aside you are quite correct a cyclist should be treated as any other vehicle.

In regard to overtaking one should allow a cyclist 1.5 metres of space. Any driver not doing so is breaking the Highway Code. Equally when a cyclists passes parked cars the safe road position means riding a door width from the parked vehicle - meaning the cyclist is entitled to effectively take the entire lane.

I strongly suggest people read the Highway Code before ranting about some aspects of cyclists behaviour. It's always better to speak from a position of knowledge.

I haven't presumed that cyclists are all men - as mentioned I was branching off the sub-topic and I am on about how women drivers are "safer" etc. Older drivers are sensible...you can't charge people more or less in many other walks of life. Eg Fat folk should realistically pay more for travel costs as they use up more fuel. Risk assessment is drawing on figures to basically just generalise, label and stereotype and financially punish under an acceptable title. An individual should not be penalised because someone else has claimed because they share the same occupation or both have willies. In a world where discrimination pretends to be no longer acceptable, it clearly is just that.

[ABBEY]

Bloke in front nearly walloped a cyclist today on London rd . Another bell end , this time middle aged all the gear on as well . Straight between card going slow and car moved over ha . Bet the idiot thinks twice before doing it again . Brain dead arrogant pillocks . Use the cycle path you moron!!!!!

[AlanK]

Did anyone suggest cyclists should not be overtaken? No.

The point is the space a driver should give a cyclist. Would a driver risk overtaking a car when the clearance is narrow? Unlikely as it threatens the driver's car and personal safety. The same logic applies to a cyclist.

The problem is Paul, that when cycle clubs hit the road the riders are strung out over say...50 metres travelling reasonably quick with nowhere in the chain of cycles to pull in so you have to be able to overtake the whole lot in one go which is bloody tricky on a lot of roads.

[Amo]

That new feminist Heineken ad. It just fails on so many levels.

[Baz]

There used to be a bit of good manners where if you where holding up people behind you, if you got the opportunity you would pull over and let the tailback pass. You see that very rarely these days.

My biggest gripe with cyclists though, are the idiots riding on roads at night or early morning with no lights.

[yoda]

There used to be a bit of good manners where if you where holding up people behind you, if you got the opportunity you would pull over and let the tailback pass. You see that very rarely these days.

My biggest gripe with cyclists though, are the idiots riding on roads at night or early morning with no lights.

And in dark clothing !!!

are they out for compo or something

[Paul]

What is the ratio of serious cyclists who belong to clubs that hopefully follow the highway code and general cyclists who,

ignore traffic lights,

pull in front of you at junctions,

ignore round about etiquette,

squeeze past you on the left at junctions when there is hardly any room,

don't use signals so that other road users know their intent especially when turning right,

give you the "V's" when you let them know (via the horn) that you are near them and to pay attention,

suddenly demount at junctions to get through by bypassing the lights or road signs.

I've no idea yoda but agree with you none of that behaviour is acceptable. I'm just want people to understand there are a very large numbers of cyclists who would never behave this way.

[Paul]

The problem is Paul, that when cycle clubs hit the road the riders are strung out over say...50 metres travelling reasonably quick with nowhere in the chain of cycles to pull in so you have to be able to overtake the whole lot in one go which is bloody tricky on a lot of roads.

Yes I understand that problem. I can only speak from personal experience but any club I've ridden with works hard to minimise this. The front and rear riders will always be very experienced, information is passed up and down the group both verbally and through signals. The group knows it must follow these instructions for its own safety and for others. The purpose of this communication is to maximise the group's safety and minimise the impact on other road users. Every rider I know is concerned to behave correctly and if you belong to CCC you can and will get a bollocking from fellow members for poor road behaviour. I've given it out and received it - which doesn't mean I regularly abuse motorists

If a group is strung out over 50 metres that is bad organisation. We frequently have a group of 20+ and that group will always ride two abreast to shorten the group length. With that number of riders we would only "single out" when the road width determined it necessary. Twenty cyclists riding two abreast, and usually two feet maximum between front and rear wheels, takes up about 80/90 feet of road space.

An artic takes up around 55-60 feet. The cycle group one can see through, travels slower and will generally be looking to get out of a driver's way. I think it's likely passing an artic is more difficult and dangerous though clearly that vehicle is moving faster, not much faster in a 30 limit but certainly faster.

It was mentioned a cyclist might hold up or delay a driver by 10/20/30 seconds. If I was so busy I couldn't suffer a 30 second delay I'd feel a need to examine my lifestyle. I commute 45-75 minutes each way dependent on traffic. I don't feel 30 seconds is an issue.

The reason drivers come across lots of cyclists on quiet country roads is because we go places to be away from traffic as much as possible. We don't want to ride A roads.

[BiggusLaddus]

Passing a single cyclist is not usually a problem, especially as I normally drive on country roads where I'm able to accelerate far beyond the cyclist's speed. I could see how it would be more annoying to be stuck at 20 in a 30 for a long way though.

Catching up with a whole gaggle on a rural nsl road is a nightmare. But in 20+ years of driving I think it's happened to me a grand total of twice.

[cn174]

Another driving one .... Now that the glorious East Lancs Bus lane out of Salford is in operation (the bus lane without a bus service, of course) I'm getting really annoyed by people who drive all the way down the bus lane, whilst the rest of us sit in the traffic of the remaining two lanes in traffic

Did see an unmarked police car catch someone doing it the other day though, which made me laugh!

[adopted scouser]

Going back to the driving with no lights on, see more and more lately.

Why do new cars have the dash lights on all the time ?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Another driving one .... Now that the glorious East Lancs Bus lane out of Salford is in operation (the bus lane without a bus service, of course) I'm getting really annoyed by people who drive all the way down the bus lane, whilst the rest of us sit in the traffic of the remaining two lanes in traffic

Did see an unmarked police car catch someone doing it the other day though, which made me laugh!

That does my head in too. The general practice of going in the wrong lane for a considerable distance to avoid the queues, then pushing in at the last minute. No idea why anyone ever lets these people in. I drive practically bumper to bumper with the car in front if I even suspect someone's going to try it on me. It'd be great if everyone did that, let the inconsiderate a-holes sit waiting to get let in for an hour, they'd soon stop queue jumping then.

[old darwen blue]

Another driving one .... Now that the glorious East Lancs Bus lane out of Salford is in operation (the bus lane without a bus service, of course) I'm getting really annoyed by people who drive all the way down the bus lane, whilst the rest of us sit in the traffic of the remaining two lanes in traffic

Did see an unmarked police car catch someone doing it the other day though, which made me laugh!

And did you see the two big yellow signs near to the junction with Higher Barn Street saying "Bus Lane Not In Operation."

[Amo]

On my way to work, I noticed there was a floral tribute and messages at the local bus stop across the street. I assumed that someone had been killed in a road accident or something? Nope. Turns out it's to mourn a local moggy who got hit by a car. There's even been talk of raising thousands of pounds for a plaque in its honour! Yeaaah, let's not raise money and put it towards a good cause or anything. Let's blow it on a commemorative plaque for a goddamn cat!? I could understand if it was a dog, maybe, but a CAT!?

@#/? me. It's only made the national news!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bus-stop-becomes-tribute-shrine-7291849

[Blue Cabbage]

Why different if it was a dog Amo?!

[Amo]

Why different if it was a dog Amo?!

Because dogs are naturally social, loving, faithful, dependable creatures.

Cats are assholes.

[Mike E]

On my way to work, I noticed there was a floral tribute and messages at the local bus stop across the street. I assumed that someone had been killed in a road accident or something? Nope. Turns out it's to mourn a local moggy who got hit by a car. There's even been talk of raising thousands of pounds for a plaque in its honour! Yeaaah, let's not raise money and put it towards a good cause or anything. Let's blow it on a commemorative plaque for a goddamn cat!? I could understand if it was a dog, maybe, but a CAT!?

@#/? me. It's only made the national news!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bus-stop-becomes-tribute-shrine-7291849

Reminds me of the tribute to that racoon over the pond haha

[Blue Cabbage]

Which is exactly why I like cats. I like their style. Dogs are too needy for me personally.

(I know lots will disagree, this is obviously just my opinion)

[T J Hooker]

I agree, it is pathetic to waste money on a plaque, surely if they had any sense they'd donate the money to a cat rescue or something

also, cats are as good as dogs(or any other animal for that matter) especially to there owners

[Mike E]

I'm absolutely a dog person. Hated cats with a passion until I was 22. Our last dog sadly passed and neither me or dad could commit to exercising a new one enough. We decided on a rescue cat, and I absolutely love her to bits.

But when I have my own house, I'll be getting a dog.