[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 3

[thenodrog]

Regardless of that, there is no such thing as Blackburn Rovers 'punching above their weight' whilst in the second division. Exceeding expectations maybe, but punching above weight? No chance.

Same thing in my book. He just used a figure of speech. Move on it's a triviality.

[BlooBoy]

im going to ask you this BlooBoy... If we went after players say 3 months before the season started, and lets say we offered Guthrie 10k a week or any other trialist. He says okay, look im going to wait a while before i commit as i want to keep my options open. Now a few months is a long time to think about it, so in that time, we can easily trial a few others and have a longer period of time to get a better look. We know Guthries capabilities, so fine we can wait on him. He then decides with 2 months to go, he got a better offer. Fine.

we still have 2 months to find players, and get them integrated with the squad and ready for kickoff.

Now take that same scenario, with a few days to go to kick off. Guthrie comes on Friday, and says nah he got a better offer elsewhere. we go into the 1st game with having brought in a few unknown French guys, and thats it. another week will go by, and we now heading into our 2nd game, we bring somebody in, it takes them time a bit to find there feet.

You get where this is going? its not about players wanting better offers, its about how late we are doing these deals

I completely agree Ice i really do,that its not good preperation .

But what if all the other trialists we trial do a Guthrie .."il think about it".Then all get better offers. You still end up in the same situation.

Its just the situation we re in Ice.

As i said earlier we re hardly starting from scratch for a first team eleven . Time to introduce players to the squad and still hold our own in this league.

[thenodrog]

im going to ask you this BlooBoy... If we went after players say 3 months before the season started, and lets say we offered Guthrie 10k a week or any other trialist. He says okay, look im going to wait a while before i commit as i want to keep my options open. Now a few months is a long time to think about it, so in that time, we can easily trial a few others and have a longer period of time to get a better look. We know Guthries capabilities, so fine we can wait on him. He then decides with 2 months to go, he got a better offer. Fine.

we still have 2 months to find players, and get them integrated with the squad and ready for kickoff.

Now take that same scenario, with a few days to go to kick off. Guthrie comes on Friday, and says nah he got a better offer elsewhere. we go into the 1st game with having brought in a few unknown French guys, and thats it. another week will go by, and we now heading into our 2nd game, we bring somebody in, it takes them time a bit to find there feet.

You get where this is going? its not about players wanting better offers, its about how late we are doing these deals

1. Football players are all on holiday from the end of the season until July. The entire business effectively shuts down for 6 weeks.

2. If we'd signed Guthrie 3 months back we'd have spewed £130,000 already for no good reason. Put another way thats the total take from over 500 ST sales.... and we only have about 8500 left to go at.

Any more daft questions Iceman?

[Neal]

Haha why are they being greedy? If you were unemployed and had several irons in the fire wouldn't you take the most lucrative? Yeah there might be other variables...demographic, family and happiness but ultimately most contracts, in which ever industry come down to pounds and pence.

Chill out lads...we're not rich anymore...people will not jump at the contracts we offer until it becomes their best offer...it's not personal, it's just life!

What is it with people lecturing others with the obvious facts on here these days?

How do you know he has? As it stands he's losing money being an out of work footballer and a contract is on the table... If all he is waiting on is the chance of more money then as a normal working class bloke how can you not find that infuriating?

I'm quite aware of where we are now but take a step back from the football circus for a second and even 10 grand a week is bloody ridiculous and he should sign it or clear off. Do you want a player hanging around the club waiting for more money before he's even kicked a ball? I don't... Particularly as the season is about to kick off.

[martonrover]

1. Football players are all on holiday from the end of the season until July. The entire business effectively shuts down for 6 weeks.

2. If we'd signed Guthrie 3 months back we'd have spewed £130,000 already for no good reason. Put another way thats the total take from over 500 ST sales.... and we only have about 8500 left to go at.

Any more daft questions Iceman?

That's the kind of logic Karl Oyston was adhering to this time last year..........

[G Somerset Rover]

Gavlar this is the second time in two days that I have had to respond to posts from you which a touch of common sense and savvy should have given you the answer too.

You've got more front than Brighton, Theno. Funnily enough my posts aren't all directed at you.

[BlooBoy]

What is it with people lecturing others with the obvious facts on here these days?

How do you know he has? As it stands he's losing money being an out of work footballer and a contract is on the table... If all he is waiting on is the chance of more money then as a normal working class bloke how can you not find that infuriating?

I'm quite aware of where we are now but take a step back from the football circus for a second and even 10 grand a week is bloody ridiculous and he should sign it or clear off. Do you want a player hanging around the club waiting for more money before he's even kicked a ball? I don't... Particularly as the season is about to kick off.

Neal whatever money they are on a week ..its still just a job.

Like 99% of people you work and try to get the best pay whilst doing it ..

If you was out of work and offered a cr8p job on what you consider to be a cr8p wage for what you re used to and can afford to turn it down and wait ..im sure you would...just like anyone else.

[JHRover]

Same thing in my book. He just used a figure of speech. Move on it's a triviality.

Accept its not important but they aren't the same things to me.

'Punching above weight' implies we are a small club in this division who should be grateful merely to compete against the other clubs - the kind of attitude that ensures decline - whilst I believe we are no less 'weighty' than anyone in this division.

Whereas a more appropriate term such as 'low expectations' suggests that for this season at least expectations aren't great, due to a series of factors, but that has nothing to do with our 'weight' as a club, and more to do with us being placed in a difficult/impossible position by the authorities, and which is hopefully a temporary issue before we can return to being a normal trading club.

Put it this way, I doubt any Forest legends would consider a mid-table finish for them this season to represent their club 'punching above their weight'. They probably don't expect promotion this season, owing to their embargo, but wouldn't use terminology like the above. I don't see why we should be any different.

I just didn't like the use of that term by Gallacher.

[longsiders1882]

I don't want to comment to much beyond the possible link to Hanley but when did it become "only 10K a week" - surely even in todays crazy world that is a decent sum for the average championship player?

I am led to believe Ings was "only" on 7K a week!

[thenodrog]

That's the kind of logic Karl Oyston was adhering to this time last year..........

Indeed so. It's the kind of logic most chairmen of cash strapped clubs adhere to. It's called business acumen.

[martonrover]

Indeed so. It's the kind of logic most chairmen of cash strapped clubs adhere to. It's called business acumen.

Well, yes, it was a great business decision for Blackpool wasn't it?!

I take your point but disagree about the football industry 'shutting down'.

There's a balance to be struck and, whilst we haven't got it as wrong as Blackpool did last year, we haven't got it right in my opinion.

I think in our case it wasn't so much a decision to try and save money but a result of slow decision making in India and poor recruitment strategy over here, (and, of course, the embargo).

I don't want to comment to much beyond the possible link to Hanley but when did it become "only 10K a week" - surely even in todays crazy world that is a decent sum for the average championship player?

I am led to believe Ings was "only" on 7K a week!

Indeed, apparently Gary Rowett said on Radio 5 last night that Birmingham can't compete financially with the embargoed clubs.

[Neal]

Neal whatever money they are on a week ..its still just a job.

Like 99% of people you work and try to get the best pay whilst doing it ..

If you was out of work and offered a cr8p job on what you consider to be a cr8p wage for what you re used to and can afford to turn it down and wait ..im sure you would...just like anyone else.

Course it is, people keep approaching me with this attitude of we need to get real but the lad has been in the championship for a while and not played consistent football... Perhaps it's time players like him got real? Like Longsiders just said, when has 10k for a CHAMPIONSHIP standard player been considered crap? If thats a crap wage and he doesn't want to sign then he can clear off, HOWEVER if all thats holding the deal up is the length of contract then that is something I can find find more understandable.

[tomphil]

What's the chances of Brum finishing above us next season ? Wouldn't be surprised if they do. Infact if you put stock in everything Bowyer says then us and Forest should finish bottom two, it's all the embargo and FFP's doing though.

[arbitro]

1. Football players are all on holiday from the end of the season until July. The entire business effectively shuts down for 6 weeks.

2. If we'd signed Guthrie 3 months back we'd have spewed £130,000 already for no good reason. Put another way thats the total take from over 500 ST sales.... and we only have about 8500 left to go at.

Any more daft questions Iceman?

I'm pretty sure that contracts coming to an end run up until the end of June. The players wages are paid up until this date. In that respect would a player be able to have two contracts with different clubs?

Having a trial is a two way thing with the player being able to see the workings of the club and the facilities. At a proper club there is also an opportunity to get fit in a controlled environment using the best technology and experts.

[Speedie Dived]

What is it with people lecturing others with the obvious facts on here these days?

How do you know he has? As it stands he's losing money being an out of work footballer and a contract is on the table... If all he is waiting on is the chance of more money then as a normal working class bloke how can you not find that infuriating?

I'm quite aware of where we are now but take a step back from the football circus for a second and even 10 grand a week is bloody ridiculous and he should sign it or clear off. Do you want a player hanging around the club waiting for more money before he's even kicked a ball? I don't... Particularly as the season is about to kick off.

Our jobs have nothing to do with it. Footballers have mortgages and bills to pay so i don't see a problem with them holding out for as much as they can get. If they don't perform a club would not think twice about booting them out on the street.

It's a different world for your man in the street, but the two worlds are not comparable.

Course it is, people keep approaching me with this attitude of we need to get real but the lad has been in the championship for a while and not played consistent football... Perhaps it's time players like him got real? Like Longsiders just said, when has 10k for a CHAMPIONSHIP standard player been considered crap? If thats a crap wage and he doesn't want to sign then he can clear off, HOWEVER if all thats holding the deal up is the length of contract then that is something I can find find more understandable.

Survey in 2014 said that just under £10k a week was the average pay for a Championship player. £43k a week for a Premier League player.

[den]

Under Hughes and Allardyce we had trialists coming in throughout the season, as we did under Souness and Kenny and practically every manager I can think of going back to Furphy.

Yes, trials in themselves aren't a problem Parson. It's just the perception that this is "all" we're doing. It does come across as grasping at straws with no real idea what's going on.

[roverandout]

Think they call it trial and error, with more emphasis on error

[Neal]

Survey in 2014 said that just under £10k a week was the average pay for a Championship player. £43k a week for a Premier League player.

So hardly crap then... Hopefully Guthrie knows this is the average wage for a championship player.

[Silas]

Haha why are they being greedy? If you were unemployed and had several irons in the fire wouldn't you take the most lucrative? Yeah there might be other variables...demographic, family and happiness but ultimately most contracts, in which ever industry come down to pounds and pence.

Chill out lads...we're not rich anymore...people will not jump at the contracts we offer until it becomes their best offer...it's not personal, it's just life!

The idea is to get as much "bang for your buck" as possible mate...in fairness to the current regime, we know that they've tried hard and wanted to sign Le Fondre, Guthrie and Kim..that alone should give you confidence that they are on the right track...I'd have taken those three with open arms outside of the embargo!!!

Or would you rather we'd "got business done" and signed Dougie and Coke like the "excellent" MM who has as many relegation a as promotions on his CV?

In answer, I trust the current management to go after the right players within their budget. Can't comment on DS and The V's.

I don't want to comment to much beyond the possible link to Hanley but when did it become "only 10K a week" - surely even in todays crazy world that is a decent sum for the average championship player?

I am led to believe Ings was "only" on 7K a week!

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2014/11/14/top-20-leagues-in-world-football-based-on-average-player-wages-englands-43717-bpl-way-ahead-of-la-liga/7/

Good point Longers. People seem to be talking like we're incapable of getting players in our current position and even making comparisons to Blackpool (a team that paid Ranger £150 a week or something right?!)

The above link from Nov 2014 shows the average Championship wage as £9,347 a week. Slap bang in our range. And I think we are pretty fair as fans, we aren't looking for world beaters here, just some competent Championship players that can add to the squad strength and at the very least ensure we aren't scrapping at the wrong end of the table.

Chill out Mani?! Is it not pretty understandable that with 3 days to go to start of season we are all fretting by the lack of signings considering all the players gone. I don't think people are over reacting here. It's been a pretty miserable summer so far. And with JR potentially to go too, what exactly am I supposed to be chilled about?

I understand that there is still almost a month of the window left, and I also understand that wage isn't the only issue and that not being able to pay fees is seriously hampering us and narrowing the field we can pick from.

"I trust the current management" ..... to get it right.

Well I will bow to your superior knowledge on this one as I am led to believe you have your finger on the pulse far more than me, but I can't say I feel that trust and am personally in full on panic mode.

If I was to score the management set up on the transfer window so far (factoring in the embargo) I would be struggling to give them a 5 out of 10. I really do hope your confidence is well placed and that come Sep I will be eating my words. But I feel very little optimism at the moment. And I guess I'm not alone.

[tomphil]

What were we told about Prem league teams loaning players out ? The end of the window wasn't it ? Yet just seen on twitter there's about 50 gone out so far. Maybe the best un's go last, or of course it could be more bulldust backside covering..........

[roverandout]

The idea is to get as much "bang for your buck" as possible mate...in fairness to the current regime, we know that they've tried hard and wanted to sign Le Fondre, Guthrie and Kim..that alone should give you confidence that they are on the right track...I'd have taken those three with open arms outside of the embargo!!!

Or would you rather we'd "got business done" and signed Dougie and Coke like the "excellent" MM who has as many relegation a as promotions on his CV?

In answer, I trust the current management to go after the right players within their budget. Can't comment on DS and The V's.

That's alright then, they tried ever so hard. your position on this matter has been compromised

[Parsonblue]

Yes, trials in themselves aren't a problem Parson. It's just the perception that this is "all" we're doing. It does come across as grasping at straws with no real idea what's going on.

In our situation when you have limited places within the squad and limited money for wages it seems sensible to bring in trialists to see if they are right for the club. With only operating in the free or loan market, it was always likely that whoever we went for would be out of contract at a club and thus available for trial. However, with still the best part of month till the window closes many of those players will be looking to keep their options open. I suspect it won't be until the final week of the window that we are able to complete all the deals we might want to do.

[Athlete]

I'm always sceptical when the first paragraph of the Telegraph's story reads 'it is understood'.

So it seems that their story is based on rumour, and probably putting two and two together with Bowyer saying he was impressed and him still being on trial suggesting that there is an offer under consideration.

They couldn't even get his picture right! The photo on the website is of Nicky Maynard and not Danny Guthrie.

The LT has become a joke with a clown reporter who writes what Everton Alan tells him

What were we told about Prem league teams loaning players out ? The end of the window wasn't it ? Yet just seen on twitter there's about 50 gone out so far. Maybe the best un's go last, or of course it could be more bulldust backside covering..........

It definitely is bull prem clubs have been loaning players out all summer

[neophox]

Japan - South Korea 1-1 at half time.

[BigBar]

Get joey barton in,,,10k a week ther ye go joey...good boy!

Japan - South Korea 1-1 at half time.

i think it time to let it go lads...aint gonna happen...