[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 3

[JHRover]

But we can't spend any cash. The FUP rules are very clear on that. The earliest we could spend any money is in January.

If anyone seriously thinks we can sell Rhodes now and face anything other than a relegation scrap this season they need to get real. Losing 20 goals is probably manageable. Losing 40 is fatal.

We could spend £10 million in January once out of the embargo but by then we could have one foot in League One.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

But we can't spend any cash. The FUP rules are very clear on that. The earliest we could spend any money is in January.

If anyone seriously thinks we can sell Rhodes now and face anything other than a relegation scrap this season they need to get real. Losing 20 goals is probably manageable. Losing 40 is fatal.

We could spend £10 million in January once out of the embargo but by then we could have one foot in League One.

There is an ongoing debate as to how soon we would be out of the embargo - since Shaw indicated we would be out of it if we sold a player for roughly what we got for Gestede.

[skous18]

A Bulgarian winger we were linked to in January?

8

Are u talking about Tonev?

[phili]

There is an ongoing debate as to how soon we would be out of the embargo - since Shaw indicated we would be out of it if we sold a player for roughly what we got for Gestede.

It would require the agreement of every single championship chairman to agree to it, so I would say January would be the earliest.

[Neal]

There is an ongoing debate as to how soon we would be out of the embargo - since Shaw indicated we would be out of it if we sold a player for roughly what we got for Gestede.

Wheelock and Kammy have both said another big sale could get the embargo lifted this transfer window. Which is why we should be pushing through sales now so we can get quality replacements in rather than them leaving at the last minute and us being seriously in quality until January.

[Gav]

There is an ongoing debate as to how soon we would be out of the embargo - since Shaw indicated we would be out of it if we sold a player for roughly what we got for Gestede.

You have to ask yourself why Shaw wasn't specific with his comments DMTP, he knows the figure but didn't disclose it, why?

I think far to much emphasis is being put on getting out of this embargo, do people really think Venkys are going to suddenly come up with pots of cash for a promotion push? or any cash for a promotion push?

Once out of the embargo the rhetoric will undoubtedly be:

"We can't spend that sort of money or we'll be back under an embargo"

[JHRover]

There is an ongoing debate as to how soon we would be out of the embargo - since Shaw indicated we would be out of it if we sold a player for roughly what we got for Gestede.

Its just complete nonsense though isn't it?

How can there be debate? The rules are in black and white, and should therefore be enforced properly. If they are willing to make concessions for us then what concessions have they made for other clubs?

How much is 'roughly' what we got for Gestede? The same amount? More? 5 million? 4 million?

I fail to see why our compliance should depend on whether or not we sell another player. FUP isn't about player sales and cashing in on players. No other team has had to bring in £20 million in sales to comply.

FUP is about losses to turnover on a year by year basis. Predominantly wages and transfer fees paid out. Our business since 2013 in terms of fees paid and wages paid has been sensible and has reduced drastically.

Why do Middlesbrough not need to sell a valuable player to comply? Their wage bill is bigger than ours, their income is similar.

I don't believe for one second that selling Rhodes will see the embargo lifted. I don't believe we need to sell Rhodes to get it lifted. We have already brought in more than £10 million from sales and cut the wage bill yet again. If the people running this club can't get us out of the embargo with that evidence without the need to sell our only remaining star asset then they should be sacked.

[Kamy100]

But we can't spend any cash. The FUP rules are very clear on that. The earliest we could spend any money is in January.

If anyone seriously thinks we can sell Rhodes now and face anything other than a relegation scrap this season they need to get real. Losing 20 goals is probably manageable. Losing 40 is fatal.

We could spend £10 million in January once out of the embargo but by then we could have one foot in League One.

This is where the confusion has come in as Derek Shaw seemed to suggest that the embargo will be lifted immediately we sold someone for around £4 million, whereas looking at the FFP documentation it clearly says that embargo cannot be lifted until the next transfer window.

So either the FL have some special dispensation that they can use or what Derek means is that the FL would announce immediately that the embargo would be lifted in January 2016 which would then allow Rovers to loan players with a view to them signing permanently on January 1st!

[blueboy3333]

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-news/leeds-united-football-league-lift-ffp-transfer-embargo-updated-1-7256620

This was the situation when Leeds exited their embargo. They were told in May this year that they were free to spend in the next available window (this summer) as their losses for 14/15 would be £7m, down from £22m in 13/14. Our losses must be projected to have reduced considerably in 15/16 if a £4m sale will mean we meet the FFP rules.

When does the accounting period run from-to?

[JHRover]

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/leeds-united/latest-whites-news/leeds-united-football-league-lift-ffp-transfer-embargo-updated-1-7256620

This was the situation when Leeds exited their embargo. They were told in May this year that they were free to spend in the next available window (this summer) as their losses for 14/15 would be £7m, down from £22m in 13/14. Our losses must be projected to have reduced considerably in 15/16 if a £4m sale will mean we meet the FFP rules.

When does the accounting period run from-to?

Leeds sold McCormack in a deal worth £11 million to Fulham which probably accounts for about £12 million of that. Since they escaped from the embargo they have gone out and spent millions on the likes of Chris Wood and Stuart Dallas. So that probably puts them well above £10 million again. Yet no re-entry into embargo expected for them.

So I think we can be reasonably comfortable that once we are out of this predicament that we can still spend money in future without an immediate re-entry into the embargo.

Compare Leeds to us who have sold Cairney, King and Gestede for a combined £10-11 million and got their wages off the books. We've also shed big earners in Best, Etuhu, Robinson, Orr etc.

What I don't understand is this. Our losses don't have to be within the limit to avoid an embargo. Our losses just have to have been reduced sufficiently so as to put a good case forward that we are on the right track and are taking steps to reduce losses. This is how Brighton and Bolton got away with it - by significantly cutting losses yet still being outside the allowance yet avoiding an embargo.

Given that we have pocketed £10 million in cash, are net 6 players down on last season, have paid off all the big earners bar Rhodes and have spent £200,000 on transfers since January 2014 I don't see how we can't be 'on track' without having to cash in on our last remaining asset to comply.

Selling players to reduce losses is a short term fix. The real issue is getting the wage bill in order. If we sold Rhodes now and then in 12 months were put back under an embargo then what?

[LJW]

just seen that Forest have been hit with a winding up petition

[davulsukur]

Where have you seen that?

[LJW]

Where have you seen that?

Just been on SSN

[Mike E]

Akpan could be a recommendation from Duffy as well as Guthrie. Weren't they together in Everton youth or was that Akpom?

[blueboy3333]

Selling players to reduce losses is a short term fix. The real issue is getting the wage bill in order. If we sold Rhodes now and then in 12 months were put back under an embargo then what?

If our wage-bill has been dramatically reduced (which it should have been), AND we also don't have anyone left on a fat contract that needs paying off AND the threshold for FFP losses increases to £13m (i think) in 15/16 then we really shouldn't be going back under an embargo if the club is managed prudently.

Akpan could be a recommendation from Duffy as well as Guthrie. Weren't they together in Everton youth or was that Akpom?

Akpan started at Everton.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/reading-fc-midfielder-hope-akpan-9823466

Seems like Reading could be cancelling his contract and we're getting him on a free.

[Neal]

Just been on SSN

That was a while ago and they overcame it.

[beanie]

This is where the FFP rules become a bit of a joke to me in any other situation i would sell Rhodes for £14m its more than he's worth but since we have been hamstrung with our inability to purchase a replacement the terms of the ban make it almost impossible for the clubs under embargo to sell.

the fact that we could sell all three of our first choice strikers for £21.5m + whilst removing 70k a week from the wage bill should mean we are given some leeway to replace players.

[JHRover]

A quick search on google seems to suggest that Forest have faced a number of winding up petitions over the last couple of years.

A new petition has been issued in the last few days.

[K-Hod]

That was a while ago and they overcame it.

Not like SSN to be slow off the mark!

[G Somerset Rover]

Forest are getting screwed every bit as much as we are by FFP. Last week they completed a deal for the GK Ben Hamer but he had to be sent back as some jobsworth spotted an infringement in the deal (led to believe it was over how much they were going to pay him). Ah well, so long as QPR aren't affected eh?

[JHRover]

The fact that Forest are also under an embargo and are also seemingly not willing/able to appeal the punishment is the only thing that is keeping me sane.

The fact that we are not alone in this predicament and that we are not the only ones accepting their punishment and getting on with it is reassuring.

[sharpysharps]

Rovers have signed Barrow on loan from Swansea for 3 months.

Decent winger.

On loan until November 10th as it stands. I guess it could be extended if he does well.

[chaddyrovers]

Rovers have completed the loan signing of Swansea City's Modou Barrow.

http://t.co/mxMyYKkNbOhttp://t.co/WZOOfbqXir

[unleaded]

Akpan is a Johnson Baby .... He was due to go Cardif but signed for Reading from Crawley ...

Johnson is the mastermind behind all these deals

He does have a good taste in players from his early input ....

Ruddy .. Conway ... ALF....Kim ... Akpan now and maybe the new winger who is due in ....

[imy9]

People wanted pace, well this guy is a rapid. One of the quickest players around. Good loan signing.