[Archived] Transfer Talk Part 3

[thenodrog]

To be honest Gordon I think we've been in this position since Hughes was here.

John Williams said on many occasions we need to sell a player every couple of seasons to stay competitive and we did just that.

For some reason people are up in arms when Venkys say it, it's good business sense, but about 5yrs to late in Venkys terms.

back then John Williams described our future as being not a buying or a selling club but a 'Trading club'. Unfortunately he didn't try hard enough to hang on to our Senior Trader.

[Steve Moss]

Wheelock saying in the LT today :

" It is believed that if Rovers were to sell both Rudy and Rhodes the embargo would be lifted "

I wonder if the club have had that officially confirmed or he's just guessing, like the rest of us.

Might be true, but it leaves unanswered WHEN the embargo would be lifted even if we sold both Rhodes and Gestede. If we're embargoed until another transfer window, we could be goners unless it was lifted immediately. Better to hang onto Rhodes until we discover/develop another cost effective replacement striker. We have 4 years to sell him, he's only 25, and he'll likely improve further.

[West Yorks Rover]

Might be true, but it leaves unanswered WHEN the embargo would be lifted even if we sold both Rhodes and Gestede. If we're embargoed until another transfer window, we could be goners unless it was lifted immediately. Better to hang onto Rhodes until we discover/develop another cost effective replacement striker. We have 4 years to sell him, he's only 25, and he'll likely improve further.

Totally agree, was just trying to answer Pick32's post by quoting what LT said.

[den]

Wheelock saying in the LT today :

" It is believed that if Rovers were to sell both Rudy and Rhodes the embargo would be lifted "

I wonder if the club have had that officially confirmed or he's just guessing, like the rest of us.

If we were to get £18m for the pair of them, that would reduce the losses this season by £18m. Don't forget to add that £18m back on the following season though.

Hope that helps?

[RevidgeBlue]

If we were to get £18m for the pair of them, that would reduce the losses this season by £18m. Don't forget to add that £18m back on the following season though.

Hope that helps?

Where do you get that figure from?

And I thought your new stance was to sell unhappy players?

[Exiled in Toronto]

back then John Williams described our future as being not a buying or a selling club but a 'Trading club'. Unfortunately he didn't try hard enough to hang on to our Senior Trader.

I thought that was just PC speak for a selling club. It was always the top players who got sold, not to buy players just as good but to replace the natural wastage in the squad through ageing, injury, loss of form etc. Trading would be selling in areas where you have abundant resources to bring in equally good players where you are weak. Didn't see us doing much of that other when Hughes could do no wrong. Sam did well eking out the Hughes legacy but I think the only player he bought we sold for a profit was N'Zonzi, so the Trading Strategy was creaking at the seams a bit.

[Gav]

The difference is surely that back then we could reinvest in the squad, but now we can't, so a sale does absolutely nothing beyond weakening the team for the upcoming season. Yes it may help us get out of our embargo, but Venky's are the reason we're under an embargo in the first place.

Thats the reason I said they were 5yrs to late DE.

[bboy]

As well as the new sponsorship which is supposed to be one of the biggest paying in the league.

Unless Rovers have been told anything specific by the league we won't be out of FFP til next summer the earliest.

January will be decided by last years full accounts then next summer by the first half by of this current seasons accounts.

We will have to present accounts to the league in March 2016 that we are on track to make less then a 13m loss this season.

basing on us making a loss of 43M in 2013/2014

it was believed some clever accounting was made to bring forward losses (from lowering asset value of players) from 2014/2015 of around 10m, however has clearly not been enough to bring us down to the 6m allowed loss for 2014/2015.

however say the club was losing 33m a year back in 2013/2014 in real money back then. Since then we have lost 8m in parachute payments.

that would be 41m loss a year. if we have saved most of that 8m from the new sponsorship and reduced wages since 2013/14 then i do believe around 20m of player sales would get us back in line by next summer.

[RevidgeBlue]

Wheelock saying in the LT today :

" It is believed that if Rovers were to sell both Rudy and Rhodes the embargo would be lifted "

I wonder if the club have had that officially confirmed or he's just guessing, like the rest of us.

Hmmmm.............. Wheelock obviously hasn't got the faintest clue on that, so I wonder who's told him to print it.

Bowyer, Shaw or Rhodes' agent?

[Pedro]

Let's blame the fans again

I was referring to them baying for the blood of bald Kean...but come to think of it,feel free to educate me on just how great the legendary Rovers fans are Abbey.

[Cocker]

Wheelock saying in the LT today :

" It is believed that if Rovers were to sell both Rudy and Rhodes the embargo would be lifted "

The annoying thing for me is that when we sell these guys and the embargo is lifted what do we say..........We could do with Rhodes and Gestede :-(

From my point we were nearly there with what we had last year. What we were missing was a couple of clever loans from the Prem to push us to 5th or 6th.

We are so far away now my attitude has changed to hope we just stay in the league :-(

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Agree with post above. Our squad needed a couple of quality loan signings from the Premiership big boys but we were scraping around Bolton reserves. Why?

[den]

Where do you get that figure from?

And I thought your new stance was to sell unhappy players?

£18m? I'm making an assumption that that might be the combined fee for both strikers - but make your own fee up Simon, it makes no difference to the point.

As for my stance on selling players, well I did say only a couple of weeks back that I would only sell our best players under two conditions, firstly if the club desperately needed the money - and secondly if the player made it known he was determined to leave. The only way to find out whether any player is determined to leave is by talking to him directly, man to man, face to face. This idea that you can force someone who the club values at a huge £12m, can be dropped, fined, kicked or humiliated into submission is pathetic IMO.

They're quite simple points that shouldn't be difficult to understand.

[RevidgeBlue]

£18m? I'm making an assumption that that might be the combined fee for both strikers - but make your own fee up Simon, it makes no difference to the point.

As for my stance on selling players, well I did say only a couple of weeks back that I would only sell our best players under two conditions, firstly if the club desperately needed the money - and secondly if the player made it known he was determined to leave. The only way to find out whether any player is determined to leave is by talking to him directly, man to man, face to face. This idea that you can force someone who the club values at a huge £12m, can be dropped, fined, kicked or humiliated into submission is pathetic IMO.

They're quite simple points that shouldn't be difficult to understand.

I didn't mean that. I was wondering why you were adding 18m losses back on the following season. Whatever the losses season after next are they'd be 18m (or whatever the figure was) better than they otherwise would have been should both be sold.

As for the bit in bold, you make it sound like he's being tortured or waterboarded or something. Not playing football on 40k p.w. He happily signed his new contract, all that needs to happen is he needs to be politely told we can not afford to let him go at present, at the very least not until we are out of embargo in 12 months time. The rest is up to him. If he still wants to move at some point then he will need to continue to perform to keep himself in the shop window.

[DE.]

Thats the reason I said they were 5yrs to late DE.

Absolutely, but you can see why people would be angrier about it now than they were under JW and the Walker Trust. Obviously you also have to factor in that during the Walker Trust years we also always had a manager (Ince aside) who the fans thought could get the best out of their players even if we let bigger talents go. That's not so much the case now, which is another reason people are more upset about losing our best players.

Without Rhodes/Gestede last season I don't think we finish in the top 15.

[unleaded]

PNE manager scouting our youngsters tonight at Chorley ...

Hearing Mahoney & Green under spotlight ....

Under 21 lost to a last minute goal ....

[RevidgeBlue]

PNE manager scouting our youngsters tonight at Chorley ...

Hearing Mahoney & Green under spotlight ....

Under 21 lost to a last minute goal ....

So considered potentially good enough for them (in the same division as us next season) but not by us?

I really don't understand the relationship between our first team and our academy. Especially as GB came from that sort of background. It's like never the twain shall meet.

[PeteJD13]

PNE manager scouting our youngsters tonight at Chorley ...

Hearing Mahoney & Green under spotlight ....

Under 21 lost to a last minute goal ....

Surely these are players we have to keep!

[Neal]

Gestede can @#/? off, had one good full season with us and pulled his face when first bit of attention came... Be surprised if he gets over ten goals, service from Marsh and Conway was great last season and doubt he'll get the same service there.

[den]

I didn't mean that. I was wondering why you were adding 18m losses back on the following season. Whatever the losses season after next are they'd be 18m (or whatever the figure was) better than they otherwise would have been should both be sold.

What I meant was, let's say we lose 20 mill. Then we sell players worth 18 mill, the losses in the accounts for that season would only be 2 mill (meaning were out of embargo) But..... The season after that, assuming nothing else changed, the losses would be back to 20 mill because we would only have that 18 mill income once(meaning we'd be back under embargo?

Let's talk general, round figures. The accounts just published showed a loss of 36 mill on a turnover of 24 mill. That means our outgoings for last season were 60mill. Next accounts see the turnover drop to 16 mill. That means, for the club to break even it has to reduce outgoings by 44 million pounds a year.

I would love someone to tell me I've got that completely wrong.

[Don Said]

PNE manager scouting our youngsters tonight at Chorley ...

Hearing Mahoney & Green under spotlight ....

Under 21 lost to a last minute goal ....

Green should be above Brown in the pecking order, from what i've seen he's quicker than King too.

[Stuart]

What I meant was, let's say we lose 20 mill. Then we sell players worth 18 mill, the losses in the accounts for that season would only be 2 mill (meaning were out of embargo) But..... The season after that, assuming nothing else changed, the losses would be back to 20 mill because we would only have that 18 mill income once(meaning we'd be back under embargo?

Let's talk general, round figures. The accounts just published showed a loss of 36 mill on a turnover of 24 mill. That means our outgoings for last season were 60mill. Next accounts see the turnover drop to 16 mill. That means, for the club to break even it has to reduce outgoings by 44 million pounds a year.

I would love someone to tell me I've got that completely wrong.

I guess it depends on the true losses, den, but your logic holds up.

If we are doing everything we can to get out of embargo to help us to buy more players then why didn't we start this strategy BEFORE we went under embargo in the first place. It's either a smoke screen or incompetence.

[yoda's brother]

if carling did the accounts we would be ok

[chris_h]

Thanks guys I'm willing to when confronted with stupids posts

The lad posted his opinion, explained his reasoning and what looks like a half decent line up and formation. Far better than anything you've ever posted.

You bleat and whinge when anyone has a pop at you.

[Tom]

Any chance we will look at Sema or Sarpong now we can't get Kim?