[Archived] Dunny A Latic ?

[JBiz]

I'd read Guthries interview and think about that post Stuart.

I honestly can't believe how callous this is getting. Kean froze out Nelsen, Emerton, Salgado, Roberts, Samba, Nzonzi etc

How is that comparable to GB letting Dunny go. I am 99% certain I will find posts of people questioning the deal he got last year, so don't see how that's comparable to say; Emerton just being released a week before the season to go play in aus, or Nelsen being in "traction" then pulling a Spurs shirt on 3 days later, or Salgado being treated the way he was.

Come on pal.

[JAL]

Question for Gary has to be what's the most important winning football matches or making money?

After signing thirty plus players it looks like he's achieving neither.

[Stuart]

I'd read Guthries interview and think about that post Stuart.

I honestly can't believe how callous this is getting. Kean froze out Nelsen, Emerton, Salgado, Roberts, Samba, Nzonzi etc

How is that comparable to GB letting Dunny go. I am 99% certain I will find posts of people questioning the deal he got last year, so don't see how that's comparable to say; Emerton just being released a week before the season to go play in aus, or Nelsen being in "traction" then pulling a Spurs shirt on 3 days later, or Salgado being treated the way he was.

Come on pal.

If Dunny was fit and could give 60 minutes then why wasn't he playing? Last season was a kitchen sink o e, as we are finding out now. Dunn's performance against Ipswich showed more drive and determination to go forward than the like of Evans, Lowe, and even Williamson but Bowyer just goes ultra defensive without reducing our GA tally. There was room for Dunn. There was room for Cairney, room for Rochina, room for King, room for Tunnicliffe. These players were often benched or played out of position because they were too attack minded. You might think I'm being belligerent but at the end of the day I'm just pixels on a screen. Bowyer's belligerence is causing many more problems.

[yoda]

I'd read Guthries interview and think about that post Stuart.

I honestly can't believe how callous this is getting. Kean froze out Nelsen, Emerton, Salgado, Roberts, Samba, Nzonzi etc

How is that comparable to GB letting Dunny go. I am 99% certain I will find posts of people questioning the deal he got last year, so don't see how that's comparable to say; Emerton just being released a week before the season to go play in aus, or Nelsen being in "traction" then pulling a Spurs shirt on 3 days later, or Salgado being treated the way he was.

Come on pal.

Dunn was fit last season but didn't get played enough, this must be the season that GB finally gets judged on his results, or you have to question the business plan the owners have

[the original david brent]

Dunn could be Oldham manager very shortly according to the daily mirror website

Was sat next to an Oldham fan at the cricket at trent bridge on Friday and got talking about Dunny. This chap's business is involved in sponsoring Oldham and he is well connected there.

He said he had heard it on good authority that Dunny will get the managers job in a few weeks time. He said the chairman isn't keen on the new manager Darren Kelly's methods.

[Al]

Absolutely right Stuart. There can be no progress whilst Bowyer is protecting his arse.

[blueboy3333]

Wouldn't be at all surprised if that's why he was frozen out and let go. With him doing his badges he could eventually have become a credible rival to Bowyer.

I'm not sure how Machiavellian it had been - if at all - but Bowyer has frozen out any and all vocal and outspoken players, especially those with experience who might command more respect than himself in the dressing room.

It's the same trick that Kean pulled but he was seen as a bad guy and Bowyer is seen as a good guy so obviously it's completely different. Good managers bring in leaders in the dressing room, poor managers remove anyone who might challenge their authority

Oh dear. You have recommended Souey as our managerial saviour on numerous occasions. Souness also froze Dunny out. Dunny said exactly the same thing then as he said the other day about Bowyer i.e. the manager didn't like me expressing my opinion.

Looking forward to your list of 'any and all vocal players' that Bowyer has frozen out, and your proof this has actually happened anywhere but in your head.

[yoda]

Oh dear. You have recommended Souey as our managerial saviour on numerous occasions. Souness also froze Dunny out. Dunny said exactly the same thing then as he said the other day about Bowyer i.e. the manager didn't like me expressing my opinion.

Looking forward to your list of 'any and all vocal players' that Bowyer has frozen out, and your proof this has actually happened anywhere but in your head.

Dunny also later said that he thought Souey had probably been right and he could have handled himself better.

End off the day though GB has to be judged on more than making a profit on players.

Football is still about team success and results on the pitch.

Not sure that GB has that X factor to motivate players to go that extra mile to achieve results.

Yesterday was a winnable game, as many last season were. Cue people saying it is only the 1st game, so what, we lost, how many games does he get this season?

[JBiz]

Well the problem Yoda is we've seldom gone on L L L L L runs under GB - if that happens then I expect the pressure to ramp up, deservedly so.

I expect us to do better in the league cup this season after the last two poor showings, and I would guess we can pick up points at Huddersfield. We need more consistency if we are to push on, can we deliver? No idea.

[Jock]

Funny never played because he had no saleable value.

Gary Groundhog has his orders.

[yoda]

Well the problem Yoda is we've seldom gone on L L L L L runs under GB - if that happens then I expect the pressure to ramp up, deservedly so.

I expect us to do better in the league cup this season after the last two poor showings, and I would guess we can pick up points at Huddersfield. We need more consistency if we are to push on, can we deliver? No idea.

What has 5 losses on the run got to do with our present situation ?

I thought the aim was the PL.

Can we deliver you ask,

Well to answer that you need to look at results, the only real way to judge any football team

[JBiz]

Very good point, however id suggest the reality there are 3/4 teams we simply cannot compete with in terms of adding quality and depth to their squads. It was the same with Norwich and QPR in past seasons, and it'll be the same with one of QPR, Boro and Derby this year. Then you've got the 5/6 more teams, Hull, Burnley, Fulham, Forest, Ipswich, Brighton who have similar ambitions.

No cakewalk this league, and with owners seemingly dormant, unable or not bothered to invest heavily in the structure and playing squad, declining revenues, wage bills, squad depth etc - I find the expectation of promotion a bit unrealistic at present.

[Roverthechimp]

There really is no comparison in terms of status but i don't remember Souness or even Ferguson being keen on "leaders in the dressing room"...

In terms of on the pitch - didn't Bowyer actually state last season that he was disappointed with how a number of players of wilted on the pitch when it got a bit hairy?

As for Dunn - judging from the list that was posted regarding wages i can only imagine he was on a HUGE appearance bonus

Bitching about Bowyers inexperience and then suggesting replacing him with Dunn as player-manager did make me wonder though

[blueboy3333]

Dunny also later said that he thought Souey had probably been right and he could have handled himself better.

End off the day though GB has to be judged on more than making a profit on players.

Football is still about team success and results on the pitch.

Not sure that GB has that X factor to motivate players to go that extra mile to achieve results.

Yesterday was a winnable game, as many last season were. Cue people saying it is only the 1st game, so what, we lost, how many games does he get this season?

Not sure the players aren't motivated, they're just inconsistent and prone to giving away stupid goals. As for yesterday i wasn't there but when the oppo are punching the ball in the net then there's not a lot you can do as a manager.

I have no idea if Bowyer's remit is to remain in this division and solely make profits on players. It's all conjecture based on comments made during the transfer window, a time when player sales are discussed in the media and managers are asked about them...BUT if that his remit then once again the issue is with the owners. If they are desperate for promotion then you'd imagine they'd sack him if we're struggling at the wrong end of the table after 10/15 games.

My own view is that Bowyer mentioned 'top 6 and top 2' at the end of last season because his remit IS to get promoted and he's feeling the pressure. Whether he or the squad are good enough to do that is another matter. I think there are managers out there that could do better with the squad but 1) it would be a massive gamble to change managers 2) Can we trust venky's to pick the right one because there aren't many,and a lot suggested on here have bombed spectacularly.

I think we all agree on most aspects of the club, it's just some appreciate the job Bowyer has done and would be happy for him to continue, others want him out and have done for a while. Fair do's

[mustard]

Very good point, however id suggest the reality there are 3/4 teams we simply cannot compete with in terms of adding quality and depth to their squads. It was the same with Norwich and QPR in past seasons, and it'll be the same with one of QPR, Boro and Derby this year. Then you've got the 5/6 more teams, Hull, Burnley, Fulham, Forest, Ipswich, Brighton who have similar ambitions.

No cakewalk this league, and with owners seemingly dormant, unable or not bothered to invest heavily in the structure and playing squad, declining revenues, wage bills, squad depth etc - I find the expectation of promotion a bit unrealistic at present.

We've had a team capable of reaching play-offs last two seasons. We had the best strike force in the league but haven't really mounted any sort of play-off push. Bowyer, whilst not the worst manager in the world, isn't able to achieve what this club needs and IMO, never will be.

[ABBEY]

Oh dear. You have recommended Souey as our managerial saviour on numerous occasions. Souness also froze Dunny out. Dunny said exactly the same thing then as he said the other day about Bowyer i.e. the manager didn't like me expressing my opinion.

Looking forward to your list of 'any and all vocal players' that Bowyer has frozen out, and your proof this has actually happened anywhere but in your head.

I would have souey over bowyer anytime

[West Yorks Rover]

There really is no comparison in terms of status but i don't remember Souness or even Ferguson being keen on "leaders in the dressing room"...

In terms of on the pitch - didn't Bowyer actually state last season that he was disappointed with how a number of players of wilted on the pitch when it got a bit hairy?

As for Dunn - judging from the list that was posted regarding wages i can only imagine he was on a HUGE appearance bonus

Bitching about Bowyers inexperience and then suggesting replacing him with Dunn as player-manager did make me wonder though

I'm pretty sure David Dunn would want to bring in an experienced older guy to work along side him, he must know plenty

from his time in the game.

I'm not saying Dunny would be the answer to our problems, but maybe he might do a better job on match days.

Howard Kendall didn't do too badly.

[Jock]

Dunny and Howard dream team. Stock up on the red wine 😜

[yoda]

Dunny and Howard dream team. Stock up on the red wine

SAF did alright on the stuff

[West Yorks Rover]

SAF did alright on the stuff

Quite right Yoda !

And his nose didn't just go red, it turned purple.

Must be the really good stuff that does that to you.

[mustard]

Not sure the players aren't motivated, they're just inconsistent and prone to giving away stupid goals. As for yesterday i wasn't there but when the oppo are punching the ball in the net then there's not a lot you can do as a manager.

I have no idea if Bowyer's remit is to remain in this division and solely make profits on players. It's all conjecture based on comments made during the transfer window, a time when player sales are discussed in the media and managers are asked about them...BUT if that his remit then once again the issue is with the owners. If they are desperate for promotion then you'd imagine they'd sack him if we're struggling at the wrong end of the table after 10/15 games.

My own view is that Bowyer mentioned 'top 6 and top 2' at the end of last season because his remit IS to get promoted and he's feeling the pressure. Whether he or the squad are good enough to do that is another matter. I think there are managers out there that could do better with the squad but 1) it would be a massive gamble to change managers 2) Can we trust venky's to pick the right one because there aren't many,and a lot suggested on here have bombed spectacularly.

I think we all agree on most aspects of the club, it's just some appreciate the job Bowyer has done and would be happy for him to continue, others want him out and have done for a while. Fair do's

I agree, it would be a gamble to change managers but wouldn't it also be a gamble NOT to change managers? Sticking with a manager that the majority know isn't good enough to fulfil the goals the club is aiming for is gambling with the club's future IMO. If, as some predict, we are on a one-way path down the divisions, with tens of millions racking up each year, shouldn't we be doing everything in our power to achieve promotion and save the club?

I think this applied more-so before the start of last season, and sticking with Bowyer was a gamble that didn't pay off and cost us a valuable shot at promotion. If Bowyer is just ok, and won't take us up unless he has a squad better than the one last year (not happening), then why stick with him? The debt racking up, the embargo, etc. To excel (or even get through) a period like this, you need to have the right guy at the helm. A manager who is tactically lacking is doing more harm than good IMO. I don't think Bowyer is as safe a bet as some make out and we could easily drop down to League One under his stewardship, and it is where we could well be heading if things aren't sorted financially. Promotion is the only way out of the financial black hole and I have absolutely zero faith in Bowyer achieving it.

As to the last highlighted bit in your post, I appreciate what Bowyer has done. However, my appreciation now extends purely to the past tense. I think he did a sterling job when he first took over, did ok but still underachieved the next season, and blatantly underachieved last time round. I think we wasted our best shot at promotion on experiment Bowyer and now we continue to do so, despite circumstances worsening (embargo). Whilst I have little faith in Venky's and Shaw, I have slight optimism that we could hire someone better than Bowyer, especially now that Shebby et al are gone. Venky's aren't going anywhere and likely neither is Shaw, but one position that can be changed and very much improve the outlook for the club is the managerial position.

[yoda]

Not sure the players aren't motivated, they're just inconsistent and prone to giving away stupid goals. As for yesterday i wasn't there but when the oppo are punching the ball in the net then there's not a lot you can do as a manager.

I have no idea if Bowyer's remit is to remain in this division and solely make profits on players. It's all conjecture based on comments made during the transfer window, a time when player sales are discussed in the media and managers are asked about them...BUT if that his remit then once again the issue is with the owners. If they are desperate for promotion then you'd imagine they'd sack him if we're struggling at the wrong end of the table after 10/15 games.

My own view is that Bowyer mentioned 'top 6 and top 2' at the end of last season because his remit IS to get promoted and he's feeling the pressure. Whether he or the squad are good enough to do that is another matter. I think there are managers out there that could do better with the squad but 1) it would be a massive gamble to change managers 2) Can we trust venky's to pick the right one because there aren't many,and a lot suggested on here have bombed spectacularly.

I think we all agree on most aspects of the club, it's just some appreciate the job Bowyer has done and would be happy for him to continue, others want him out and have done for a while. Fair do's

No, not fair do's. Where did I say that what GB has done is not appreciated ?

I am talking about progressing, had enough of the stability sh1t

[Jock]

Quite right Yoda !

And his nose didn't just go red, it turned purple.

Must be the really good stuff that does that to you.

Kean might have spiked it.

[Stuart]

Very good point, however id suggest the reality there are 3/4 teams we simply cannot compete with in terms of adding quality and depth to their squads. It was the same with Norwich and QPR in past seasons, and it'll be the same with one of QPR, Boro and Derby this year. Then you've got the 5/6 more teams, Hull, Burnley, Fulham, Forest, Ipswich, Brighton who have similar ambitions.

No cakewalk this league, and with owners seemingly dormant, unable or not bothered to invest heavily in the structure and playing squad, declining revenues, wage bills, squad depth etc - I find the expectation of promotion a bit unrealistic at present.

Just seen this Joe. For the last two seasons Bowyer has been in that second group, with a squad to match. Yet he has failed to get into the play-off positions - aside from about 5 minutes - in all that time. All through that time people on here were saying that he needed more time, more transfer windows. Others were saying he needed to be replaced before time ran out and were told they were being negative. Now that time has run out, it's all "we just can't compete" and "we are were we are". Please don't expect people to accept this and be happy with Bowyer now given that he pee'd away our last chance and has been rewarded with cleaning up and rebuilding after his own failure. We need a new broom not Trigger's broom.

[blueboy3333]

No, not fair do's. Where did I say that what GB has done is not appreciated ?

I am talking about progressing, had enough of the stability sh1t

you didn't and i didn't say you had.

We've had a team capable of reaching play-offs last two seasons. We had the best strike force in the league but haven't really mounted any sort of play-off push. Bowyer, whilst not the worst manager in the world, isn't able to achieve what this club needs and IMO, never will be.

did we have the best defence, midfield and goalkeeper?