The Relegation Thread

[Neal]

It is but have a relegation thread is a bit silly isn't it?

Not really, take Rudy's goals away from last season and we'd have probably been down there. Take Rhodes goals away too and we'd have definitely been down there and theres a very realistic chance that he could leave.

Perhaps start a promotion thread? If you feel equally silly doing that then that should indicate to you exactly what sort of manager we're stuck with.

[Blueandwhitemike]

Start a promotion thread then mike

Neal, I'm no fan of the manager... Did you not read what I wrote? He's not very good just not terrible... Does that sound like I think we will get promoted?

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough, I think the manager is poor but the squad is decent. Even more than that I think there's a lot of poor teams in this league.

[Neal]

Neal, I'm no fan of the manager... Did you not read what I wrote? He's not very good just not terrible... Does that sound like I think we will get promoted?

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough, I think the manager is poor but the squad is decent. Even more than that I think there's a lot of poor teams in this league.

I did yeah, I was just making the point that if you feel equally silly starting a promotion thread then that says it all about our manager is all. I'd reserve opinion on if you think he's terrible just yet mate...

[Blueandwhitemike]

I don't think our opinions on him are that far apart, 2 years is plenty of time, a 5/10 manager isn't good enough for me, I just don't think he will take us down.

[Neal]

I just don't think he will take us down.

Not so sure that the players respect him or the club enough to actually fight for him if we get into a relegation battle.

[Gav]

When you look at the clubs transfer business alone, Barrow aside, we're going to struggle. I've read with interest some posters trying to tell the board what decent players the new signings really are, thats complete and utter bun_kum, they'd not be here on poor contracts if they'd been any good, so lets put that one to bed. We're significantly weaker this season on the playing side than last, look where we finished last season.

Bowyer himself is trying his best, he's out of the his depth but is trying his best. The main consideration here is he's untouchable, he'll not be sacked because he's cheap and he's just made the owners 8m in transfer fees. They're not interested in league position, they're interested in getting some money back on their investment, Bowyer has done that this season and so thats a success.

If the owners did sack Bowyer who would they bring in? Craig Short would be my guess, cheap option and easy option, back to square 1.

The owners are the problem, until they go we better get used to the hysterics on here over the past 24hrs.

If Rhodes goes we'll be relegated simple as that.

VENKYS OUT

Edited August 12, 2015 by GAV

[philipl]

We were top half of mid table last season, have sold the forward who could really force things and other useful players who could and did make a key difference in games have gone too.

I cannot see us getting to 1 September with both Marshall and Rhodes still with us and given the transfer restriction we will need an absolute miracle to get like-for-like.

Now add a Manager who costs us points tactically rather than earning them, nobody who would die blue and white now Dunny has gone and a clear bias by the officials against us emphasised by the Edwards netball effort on Saturday.

Division One here we come

Back back back where we started from

Only the Division One in question is not the one we were singing about back in the days of Jim Smith....

[Parsonblue]

The last couple of seasons we were a top half side who, given a good run, might make the play-offs. This campaign we are a mid to lower table team who could, with a poor run, be involved in a relegation battle. Personally, I think there is still enough quality to finish in the lower half well above the relegation places.

[roverandout]

Me too parson only because there are a few shitter teams than rovers, not because rovers are any good

[Pedro]

Not so sure that the players respect him or the club enough to actually fight for him if we get into a relegation battle.

That is exactly what the problem is and midtable and relegation is a fine line. Get off to a torrid start and the players lack the fear of losing and are toothless.

Bowyer and his team seem to want to stumble across results, rather than pummel the opposition from the word go. It's all well and good inviting the opposition onto to you if you are well drilled and permanently switched on, we simply aren't.

[Neal]

The last couple of seasons we were a top half side who, given a good run, might make the play-offs. This campaign we are a mid to lower table team who could, with a poor run, be involved in a relegation battle. Personally, I think there is still enough quality to finish in the lower half well above the relegation places.

Good to see some progress then, part of the 4 year master plan.

[Stuart]

The last couple of seasons we were a top half side who, given a good run, might make the play-offs. This campaign we are a mid to lower table team who could, with a poor run, be involved in a relegation battle. Personally, I think there is still enough quality to finish in the lower half well above the relegation places.

That's about as depressing a post as you've made, Parson. So you agree that as a club we are going backwards. Where do you think we'll bottom out?

Give that the players who aren't performing, like Brown, like Evans, like Lowe, the whole squad really, are all Bowyer's men, why is it that you hold him harmless for taking us here? Think pre-embargo days. Think about the mismanagement - whichever way you look at it - of Best, of King, of Rochina, of Robinson, when we had those tools at our disposal. Players who could have made a difference with the right approach. Why does he not take responsibility, in your view?

In my view Bowyer has peaked. He did well in keeping us out of League One as caretaker and did reasonably well the first season. Last season was poor, with the same mistakes being made, and this season looks like it will continue that trend. We will win the odd game here and there, we may go on little unbeaten runs with mainly draws to show for it - if we are lucky. Ultimately we are on a downward curve. There's no shame in it. It happens to all managers at every club. It becomes clear that it's no longer working and they part ways. The club find someone else and the manager - if he has anything about him - does as well.

What reason is there to continue to back Bowyer whilst he keeps making mistakes? Actually 'mistakes' is the wrong word. He knows what he is doing. It is considered and it is deliberate but it isn't working and he won't change. So, again, how can we, why should we, accept that?

Bear in mind that Bowyer has had backing and infinite patience from the owners since he took over. He has been allowed to turnover the squad - twice! - because that's how they operate. (Other managers must look on, incredulous with envy). He has had backing and support, and patience from Rovers fans - simply because he is not called Steve Kean.

I suspect you may not answer me and that you don't feel the need to defend yourself but I'm not sure the purpose of such a post of you don't expect responses. If you do expect responses, why would these be not challenging ones? However, it's important because you will be one of the very last people to give up on Bowyer so it'd be interesting to know how far you will accept Rovers stagnate or even deteriorate under his stewardship. Personally, I've had enough and think it's time for change.

[Feniscowles Blue]

Personally, I think there is still enough quality to finish in the lower half well above the relegation places.

Quality?

[roverandout]

Great post

[philipl]

Me too parson only because there are a few shitter teams than rovers, not because rovers are any good

Do the worse teams also have a worse manager when it comes to gritty motivation and grinding out results?

Yes Brentford, Bolton and Bristol City all look to be in heaps of trouble but they have 45 matches to learn and adapt.

Are learning and adapting Gary Bowyer fortes?

[mustard]

The last couple of seasons we were a top half side who, given a good run, might make the play-offs. This campaign we are a mid to lower table team who could, with a poor run, be involved in a relegation battle. Personally, I think there is still enough quality to finish in the lower half well above the relegation places.

I think the squad we had last year was more than capable of making play-offs. With that strike force, especially. I think Bowyer held the team back last season and that shall continue this time round. Now, we have a squad capable of top half IMO, but a manager who won't be able to deliver this.

At what point would you say Bowyer deserves the job til PB? Let's say he has us lower half this season and we are out of the embargo next summer. Then he's been in the job nearly four years with (unless we have a miraculous play-off flirt at some point this season) only getting into the play-offs on two occasions for less than a week. That's poor. Surely the onus would then be on promotion or Bowyer goes if we get out the embargo next summer? He just seems to have a job for life in the eyes of some and I think that's wrong. In fact, I think he knows his job is secure, hence the complacency.

I felt he should have gone last year, should certainly be replaced now but I know he won't. Worry is, the future of Gary Bowyer seems to be taking precedence over the future of BRFC. How many more years can we plod along mid-table (if we're lucky) under Bowyer whilst the club racks up hundreds of millions in debt? IMO, Bowyer's recent employment has and will continue to damage the club. The lack of ambition to push for promotion is startling. This could solve our financial plight, instead we continue to lay our trust in a poor manager who can not get the best out of a talented team, never mind a depleted one.

If we stay up this year and Bowyer isn't potted when/if we are out of the embargo, then I will be convinced he has a job for life. He spent money before the embargo and had a go at promotion. It didn't work. Twice. I doubt third time will be a charm. He might be decent at bringing players in but we can not continue to place trust in a man who is tactically inept. We can't afford to. We'll just end up back in the embargo, saying the same things.

[Gav]

Good post mustard, some very good points.

But Parsons support, for or against Bowyer, doesn't make the blindest but of difference.

Some could argue that supporting Bowyer is supporting the football club, nothing wrong with that surely.

But when it all boils down to it, the owners hire, the owners fire, what Parson you or me thinks is irrelevant.

Bowyer is here for the season at least, unless the owners sod off.

Edited August 12, 2015 by GAV

[joey_big_nose]

I can't see us going down unless Rhodes leaves or gets a long term injury. Essentially we have the same squad as last season minus Gestede. His loss isn't enough to put us in the bottom three.

I can see us finishing anywhere from 8th to 14th.I do feel a quality manager could get us into the playoffs.

[Mattyblue]

Some could argue that supporting Bowyer is supporting the football club, nothing wrong with that surely.

So we 'get behind the manager' for ever more?

Paul Ince was out of his depth and the fans let the board (and Ince) know about it. That WAS suppoprting the club as it was in BRFC's best interest for him to leave.

However, as there is no longer an executive board at Ewood Park, any protests will fall on deaf ears- Bowyer knows this and it all feeds in to the complacent atmosphere that is pervading through the club.,

Edited August 12, 2015 by Mattyblue

[Gav]

So we 'get behind the manager' for ever more?

Paul Ince was out of his depth and the fans let the board (and Ince) know about it. That WAS suppoprting the club as it was in BRFC's best interest for him to leave.

However, as there is no longer an executive board at Ewood Park, any protests will fall on deaf ears- Bowyer knows this all feeds in to the complacent atmosphere that is pervading through the club.,

If Parson supports Bowyer and I hate him makes no difference to the outcome.

As you've alluded to Matty, we're not playing the same game as we did when Ince was here, the owners don't/won't listen to the fans unless they boycott and do something drastic in my opinion.

Plenty of fans wanted to give Ince longer, some wanted to give **** longer and I wanted to give Berg longer, but never lose sight of the fact we're all supporting the club however outlandish that support may appear.

Edited August 12, 2015 by GAV

[broadsword]

What are the reasons for us not going down?

- Too much quality in the squad? Which players represent quality then?

- Tighten up the defence? Can't see that

- Koita and Brown to score the goals that Gestede and Rhodes scored? Maybe Koita could knock a few in, but he can't score 40 on his own.

- Bowyer has a tactical epiphany?

- We suddenly become the fittest team in the division, with morale to match?

I think the only reason we'd stay up is that they'd be 3 teams even more hopeless than us.

[Stuart]

I think the only reason we'd stay up is that they'd be 3 teams even more hopeless than us.

Can you name 3?

Bolton? Forest? Personally I'm struggling. Too early to say yet but I don't see many quite so dysfunctional,

[Gav]

Can you name 3?

Bolton? Forest? Personally I'm struggling. Too early to say yet but I don't see many quite so dysfunctional,

I know its early in the season but I'm struggling to think of 3.

Rotherham may find if hard, but not against us at home, they footballed us off the park last season at the New York stadium, useless at Ewood though.

Edited August 12, 2015 by GAV

[broadsword]

I think the first 2 or 3 months may be more critical for us than for other teams.

If we can get a few lucky wins, scrape a few draws, we could build some momentum for mid-table.

But if we carry on shipping goals and not scoring any, have a bad Aug/Sept, we'll be bang in trouble because I don't think we've got the fight to get out of it. I don't think the players would be up for it enough.

Teams like Rotherham are used to it, dare I say, we've got too many rubber dinghy men.

[tomphil]

We are going to struggle Rhodes or no Rhodes, he'll get his share of goals but there won't be many from anywhere else. We create nothing and struggled too last season but with our two strikers they often only needed half a sniff or a long punt. Take away JR two chances on Sat there was nothing really until the Big K came on and his where just pot shots. The question is not only who's going to score but also just who's going to create good chances ? A lot of Conways good work was tailored to Rudy.

The way we came out in the 2nd half on Sat after their farce of a second spoke volumes about what's to come imo. Heads down, no urgency, looked a beaten team

Edited August 12, 2015 by tomphil