The Relegation Thread

[JHRover]

Whatever advantage Bowyer has had over rival managers in terms of wage bills is wiped out by the conditions Bowyer has been operating in since January.

We can say that Bowyer has had a bigger wage bill than the Cotterills and Evans of this division, but both of those have been in the position of being able to spend money to strengthen their squads since January, and in the case of Bristol City a club who were trying to spend £8 million on a striker this summer.

I'm not saying that the embargo should be used as an excuse, because for me this squad of players should be in the top half of this league, and certainly nowhere near the bottom three, but it isn't fair to say Bowyer has a bigger budget than rivals and then ignore the fact he's one of only two in this league to not spend a single penny this summer. The only player he has spent money on since January 2014 has been Shane Duffy who certainly wasn't a big money signing, whilst landing about £12 million in transfer fees and cutting the wage bill significantly. Conditions very different to most other clubs, possibly excluding the strict financial controls in place at Bolton, Ipswich and Birmingham.

[roverandout]

Yep and Ipswich and Birmingham are in the play off places, go figure

[Athlete]

A good win against a poor Charlton doesn't change things at 0-0 how many times early on did Charlton cut our defence to ribbons... Still needs to go

[philipl]

You do know that you are bothering to reply to the bloke who was convinced that Diego Maradona was on his way to the Ewood hot seat don't you?

Eh?

Since the 30 minute mark at Fulham, Rovers have put some good football together but the defence still looks woeful at times. Let's see if we can keep this up. As Kamy writes, the Hull and Ipswich games will give a good indication of where we are going.

[OJRovers]

Eh?

Since the 30 minute mark at Fulham, Rovers have put some good football together but the defence still looks woeful at times. Let's see if we can keep this up. As Kamy writes, the Hull and Ipswich games will give a good indication of where we are going.

I think the last 3 games have shown that this team can be competitive in this league, and could possibly be challenging in the top half if we had a decent manager. The longer Bowyer stays, the more difficult it will be for someone else to come in and turn things round.

[Mercer]

I think the last 3 games have shown that this team can be competitive in this league, and could possibly be challenging in the top half if we had a decent manager. The longer Bowyer stays, the more difficult it will be for someone else to come in and turn things round.

Absolutely spot on.

[Blue blood]

I think come the end of the season you'll find there are far more than three managers in a lower position than the Rovers under Bowyer.

But that doesn't necessarily mean they are worse managers. Comparatively when you factor in squad quality, length of time in the role, wage budget, transfer budget and numbers brought in,prestige of club for attracting players I don't think Bowyer comes out very well.

the

Anyway back on topic after an EXCELLENT win at the weekend to me the relegation scramble is shaping up similar to what imagined. The promoted teams are struggling, and Bolton and Rotherham look like they've nowhere near enough to stay up. All in all I still reckon we'll be safe. You've teams like us and Huddersfield who have a bit of quality but can also be very fragile. If we/they show more of the fragility than the quality then they'll get sucked in but there's enough teams down there to keep us safe.

A poor start, only one win, and we're out of the relegation zone, which speaks volumes for the quality of the league.

[Baz]

Whatever advantage Bowyer has had over rival managers in terms of wage bills is wiped out by the conditions Bowyer has been operating in since January.

We can say that Bowyer has had a bigger wage bill than the Cotterills and Evans of this division, but both of those have been in the position of being able to spend money to strengthen their squads since January, and in the case of Bristol City a club who were trying to spend £8 million on a striker this summer.

I'm not saying that the embargo should be used as an excuse, because for me this squad of players should be in the top half of this league, and certainly nowhere near the bottom three, but it isn't fair to say Bowyer has a bigger budget than rivals and then ignore the fact he's one of only two in this league to not spend a single penny this summer. The only player he has spent money on since January 2014 has been Shane Duffy who certainly wasn't a big money signing, whilst landing about £12 million in transfer fees and cutting the wage bill significantly. Conditions very different to most other clubs, possibly excluding the strict financial controls in place at Bolton, Ipswich and Birmingham.

Budget is inclusive of wages, loan fees, signing on-fees, and not exclusively transfer fees.

As an example, before the impending FFP embargo we signed Steele for cash, yet had 3 other senior keepers in the first team squad at the time, plus Raya out on loan.

[USABlue]

How's that one manager doing? The one who so many said we should have had when he became Bolton's boss.

I think Bowyers race is run but there is nothing I would like more than for us all to be eating crow come the end of the season, however Lennon is a case in point you just never know.

Edited September 23, 2015 by USABlue

[DE.]

Same with Holloway and Mackay. Both successful in this division previously but bombed last season.

Then you have the likes of Neil and Karanka who come out of nowhere and succeed.

Sometimes the risk pays off, sometimes it doesn't, but very rarely does a manager at the end of his shelf life turn things around.

[yoda]

BFS is still available

[philipl]

Just been reflecting on why I feel so pessimistic about our chances of staying up. Of course it is great to be three games undefeated and Rhodes scoring 5 in 4 games... Much as I rate Jordan, he is not going to continue at over a goal a game for the rest of the season... which is a reason for pessimism because with Marshall's head somewhere other than Ewood, there are precious few goals anywhere else in the squad.

With 37 league games to go, we almost certainly need at least 12 wins to stay up. Judging by the season to date, this is going to be a big ask. In 10 League and Cup games to date, we have only been ahead in 2 of them. We simply don't look capable of winning most of the time, let alone consistently winning one in three for the rest of the season.

I am afraid that even with Rhodes scoring regularly, we simply aren't going to get enough wins to stay up.

[DE.]

Fortunately I think there are at least 5 or 6 teams saying the same thing right now, but without the Jordan Rhodes bit.

If Rhodes gets injured I think we are sunk though. I just don't know where the goals come from without him.

[den]

Fortunately I think there are at least 5 or 6 teams saying the same thing right now, but without the Jordan Rhodes bit.

If Rhodes gets injured I think we are sunk though. I just don't know where the goals come from without him.

There aren't goals from anywhere else DE. As Philipl says, it's too much to ask Rhodes to bear the entire weight of scoring. I haven't got any answers, there are no answers with the present set up.

So I guess the only answer is to change the current set up.

[J*B]

Massive shout out to the people on here who where championing selling Jordan. We're now in a position where he is the sole bit of hope to stop us going down.

Wonder if they still think he isn't worth 14 million quid to this club.

Edited September 29, 2015 by J*B

[tomphil]

He's even putting it about a bit more this season in a better attempt at leading the line so that might suit one or two. He's likely only playing for his big move though which will surely come so they'll get their wish eventually. He must stay till the summer though....or else

[JHRover]

There are a lot of poorer sides than us in this division 'on paper'. Infact, we have players in our squad that the majority of teams in this division would be envious of. The likes of Rhodes, Marshall, Conway, Hanley.

But for some reason we don't have the 'nack' of winning games. The problem is that the teams we should be comfortably above have the ability to go and grind out wins out of nothing. We don't have that nous or streak in the team.

For example, Bristol City have been poor most of the season, yet they went away and won 1-0 at Middlesbrough a few weeks ago. Rotherham are a poor side, yet beat Cardiff in the last minute and followed that up with a 2-0 away win at high flying Birmingham. MK Dons went away to Rotherham and hammered them 4-1. Bolton simply don't lose at home, and that form alone will keep them above the dotted line.

These are the sort of things we don't do. We very rarely go away from home against a 'better' side and grind out a win. We very rarely go away to a 'poorer' side and hammer them. We very rarely put 2 or 3 wins together on the trot.

I've been to every game this season and on the basis of our performances we could easily have had another 5-6 points. We shouldn't have lost at Brighton, shouldn't have lost at Fulham, should have beat QPR, should have had a point against Wolves, and if we'd have taken our chances at the death could have beaten Hull and Cardiff.

But we didn't. The fact that we were value for more points in those games than we ultimately got is partly a positive, because we haven't been well beaten or comprehensively outplayed this season, and we are talking about very fine margins in those games, yet at the same time the negative is that we have been playing reasonably well and yet have nowhere near a good enough return from those games. In this league teams have to 'cash in' when the team is performing well and get the wins on the board, because a spell of injuries or poor performances is usually waiting round the corner.

So it is very concerning, because even now we need 2-3 consecutive wins to propel ourselves towards the top 6 zone, and whilst pleased with recent performances and results at QPR, Hull and Charlton it is still only 1 win in 9 league games and I have little or no faith in this team going on a winning run or going away and grinding out hard fought, sometimes undeserved, victories that nearly every other team is seemingly able to do.

[chris_h]

There aren't goals from anywhere else DE. As Philipl says, it's too much to ask Rhodes to bear the entire weight of scoring. I haven't got any answers, there are no answers with the present set up.

So I guess the only answer is to change the current set up.

You haven't got any answers? Blimey.

[den]

Massive shout out to the people on here who where championing selling Jordan. We're now in a position where he is the sole bit of hope to stop us going down.

Wonder if they still think he isn't worth 14 million quid to this club.

If we'd have sold him and reinvested that money wisely, we wouldn't be in this position J*B.

[K-Hod]

We can't though Den, that pesky embargo!

[joey_big_nose]

As phillipl has said goals is the absolute number one problem. No one even looks vaguely like scoring double figures except for Rhodes. Marshall, our second biggest goal threat, has been hopeless.

If we do get out of embargo in Jan the owners have to fund enough to get someone who can score around 15 from Jan to May. Or we are sunk.

Koita getting a goal would be really really useful.

[den]

We can't though Den, that pesky embargo!

No, we missed that boat.

I understand why people rate Rhodes KH, he's a phenomenal finisher. However, for me team results are far more important than any particular strength of an individual.

Edited September 29, 2015 by den

[TeamGB-11]

We'll be nowhere near relegation IMO..

[G Somerset Rover]

No, we missed that boat.

I understand why people rate Rhodes KH, he's a phenomenal finisher. However, for me team results are far more important than any particular strength of an individual.

Absolutely agreed, Den. Rhodes' all round game however is showing real signs of development to me.

[TeamGB-11]

Think Rhodes is better in the knowledge that he's the main man. For me, he plays better under that type of pressure. Was never quite as effective with Rudy there IMO.