[Archived] Cardiff At Home 18Th August

[chris_h]

It is the manager. He's signed close to 35 players. How many more will he need to get us up - another 100/150?

You can bring in a thousand players but if they're all dollopers from the reject bin promotion will remain a pipe dream.

[Speedie Dived]

Absolutely spot on. Go through last nights team:-

Raya - Youth product

Henley - Youth product

Hanley - Youth product

Duffy - Bought from team relegated to league 1 When were Everton relegated to League 1? Must have missed that!

Spurr - Bought from team relegated to league 1 Doncaster were promoted FROM League 1 when we signed him.

Conway - Championship player

Lowe - Youth Product

Akpom - Played in league 2 just 2 years ago

Marshall - Bought from Premier League

Koita - Bought from French league 1

Delfeuseno - Bought from team relegated to league 1

That team has a high chance of going down with anyone in charge. A combination of an embargo and owners/board over the years has led us to this point and everyone thinks it's the manager.

Duffy was on loan at Yeovil, who were relegated to league 1.

Spurr played in league one the year before then, his team were soon relegated back there.

[Rover_Shaun]

Absolutely spot on. Go through last nights team:-

Raya - Youth product

Henley - Youth product

Hanley - Youth product

Duffy - Bought from team relegated to league 1

Spurr - Bought from team relegated to league 1

Conway - Championship player

Lowe - Youth Product

Akpom - Played in league 2 just 2 years ago

Marshall - Bought from Premier League

Koita - Bought from French league 1

Delfeuseno - Bought from team relegated to league 1

That team has a high chance of going down with anyone in charge. A combination of an embargo and owners/board over the years has led us to this point and everyone thinks it's the manager.

Not starting XI but you missed "the new Yann Songo'o" who was released by, and deemed not good enough for, a French 3rd division side (CA Bastia) who just managed to avoid relegation to the French 4th division by 4 points

[LJW]

What is it with the majority of our fans who boo and moan when we pass backwards? Football is about outscoring your opponents. If there is nothing on in front of you then you change the angle of attack which most times means passing backwards. The amount of times our fans booed at this was unbelievable. I was cringing in my seat. If we have the ball then they cannot score, simple. I remember when we would have the ball for a good few mins before the oppositon got the ball back. Its called patient build up play. If you go gung ho and lose the ball then we are succeptable to a counter, so the patient passing, in any direction must be applied. The people moaning are the ones who are lacking in football intelligence and just want to see attack after attack. Id be happy to keep the ball for most of the game then score near the end and win 1-0. Our fans mentality has drastically changed since Venkys took over. Before them there was no booing and moaning on backwards passing RETAINING POSSESION. And I bet if you sat at the Camp Nou or Bayerns ground, their fans wouldnt be pi$$ing and moaning when a backwards pass was made. Anyway, rant over. The booing and moaning WILL NOT HAVE A GOOD EFFECT ON THE PLAYER. So encourage them rather than slating them.

[Mattyblue]

THIS season Bowyer could feasibily say he's up against it, had to sell players, embargo etc.

However, for his first two seasons he was able to bring in numerous players for transfer fees, he had a 40 goal strike partnership and we still got nowhere near the playoffs.

Why then should we expect this manager to have a poorer set of players over achieving when he under achieved with a decent set last season?

He now should have free reign to manage our further decline? They are a disorganised, unfit rabble and we need a change.

[Speedie Dived]

What is it with the majority of our fans who boo and moan when we pass backwards? Football is about outscoring your opponents. If there is nothing on in front of you then you change the angle of attack which most times means passing backwards. The amount of times our fans booed at this was unbelievable. I was cringing in my seat. If we have the ball then they cannot score, simple. I remember when we would have the ball for a good few mins before the oppositon got the ball back. Its called patient build up play. If you go gung ho and lose the ball then we are succeptable to a counter, so the patient passing, in any direction must be applied. The people moaning are the ones who are lacking in football intelligence and just want to see attack after attack. Id be happy to keep the ball for most of the game then score near the end and win 1-0. Our fans mentality has drastically changed since Venkys took over. Before them there was no booing and moaning on backwards passing RETAINING POSSESION. And I bet if you sat at the Camp Nou or Bayerns ground, their fans wouldnt be pi$$ing and moaning when a backwards pass was made. Anyway, rant over. The booing and moaning WILL NOT HAVE A GOOD EFFECT ON THE PLAYER. So encourage them rather than slating them.

There is a guy in the Riverside who screams 'FORWARD'. It used to annoy me at first but now it tends to amuse me, all we need to do is go forward.

[LJW]

There is a guy in the Riverside who screams 'FORWARD'. It used to annoy me at first but now it tends to amuse me, all we need to do is go forward.

I think we must sit near each other

[den]

I honestly don't know the answer to this, but how much has he spent? I would hazard a guess that he has brought in a lot more than has been able to spend. He had to pick up the shebby disaster, work through Shaw cocking it up and now the embargo.

He didn't sort out what you call the Shebby disaster. As for how much has he spent - well you tell me how much the accumulated contracts of those 35 players have cost?

[Speedie Dived]

THIS season Bowyer could feasibily say he's up against it, had to sell players, embargo etc.

However, for his first two seasons he was able to bring in numerous players for transfer fees, he had a 40 goal strike partnership and we still got nowhere near the playoffs.

Why then should we expect this manager to have a poorer set of players over achieving when he under achieved with a decent set last season?

He now should have free reign to manage our further decline? They are a disorganised, unfit rabble and we need a change.

I would say i didn't think last seasons team was good enough to go up, we were probably about par in 9th and with some investment this season he could have got us promoted. One of our players went up a league the rest released or stayed in this division.

He didn't sort out what you call the Shebby disaster. As for how much has he spent - well you tell me how much the accumulated contracts of those 35 players have cost?

I would hazard a guess the contracts of 35 players he signed just about come to the same amount he had to release with Murphy, Ethu and Best contracts (the shebby disaster)

[Coatbridge rover]

It is the manager. He's signed close to 35 players. How many more will he need to get us up - another 100/150?

That's the nature of the game in the championship you bring players in on one year contracts,we have players being released from lucrative contracts that needed replacing.i see some peoples favourite keeper at ewood is keeping goal in the sky sports studio.

I'm afraid that's what a mid table championship club does.Replace Mr Bowyer and his replacement will be doing the same.

[oldjamfan1]

What is it with the majority of our fans who boo and moan when we pass backwards?. And I bet if you sat at the Camp Nou or Bayerns ground, their fans wouldnt be pi$$ing and moaning when a backwards pass was made. Anyway, rant over. The booing and moaning WILL NOT HAVE A GOOD EFFECT ON THE PLAYER. So encourage them rather than slating them.

While I wholeheartedly agree with your points about the need to keep the ball, the embarrassing nature of some of our fans' ignorance when it comes to understanding the game, and the futility of getting on players' backs all the time, you would be surprised at the behaviour of people in the Camp Nou. I suspect many of them were actually tourists who don't really understand the game either, but when I was there Messi scored three, Neymar scored one and Suarez scored the pick of the bunch (an overhead kick) in a 5-0 win, and still some of them were grumbling about a player (I think it was Pedro).

[den]

That's the nature of the game in the championship you bring players in on one year contracts,we have players being released from lucrative contracts that needed replacing.i see some peoples favourite keeper at ewood is keeping goal in the sky sports studio.

I'm afraid that's what a mid table championship club does.Replace Mr Bowyer and his replacement will be doing the same.

And? The point Speedie dived was making was that none of the current problems (on the pitch) are Bowyers fault.

[joey_big_nose]

What is it with the majority of our fans who boo and moan when we pass backwards? Football is about outscoring your opponents. If there is nothing on in front of you then you change the angle of attack which most times means passing backwards. The amount of times our fans booed at this was unbelievable. I was cringing in my seat. If we have the ball then they cannot score, simple. I remember when we would have the ball for a good few mins before the oppositon got the ball back. Its called patient build up play. If you go gung ho and lose the ball then we are succeptable to a counter, so the patient passing, in any direction must be applied. The people moaning are the ones who are lacking in football intelligence and just want to see attack after attack. Id be happy to keep the ball for most of the game then score near the end and win 1-0. Our fans mentality has drastically changed since Venkys took over. Before them there was no booing and moaning on backwards passing RETAINING POSSESION. And I bet if you sat at the Camp Nou or Bayerns ground, their fans wouldnt be pi$$ing and moaning when a backwards pass was made. Anyway, rant over. The booing and moaning WILL NOT HAVE A GOOD EFFECT ON THE PLAYER. So encourage them rather than slating them.

The booing is totally counter productive but I can see why it happens. If we were managing the game looking for an opening, or protecting a lead passing between the defenders and def mids is understandable. But the problem is when it happens over and over again achieving nothing but putting us under pressure. It was terrible.

The root cause was twofold

1) a midfield uncomfortable to come deep, pickup the ball, turn and find a pass forward. Lowe is terrible at this. Akpan a bit better. They got the ball and would rather just give it back than turn.

2) The wingers were as wide as possible and the strikers playing on the last man putting a loooooong way between them and the defensive midfielders. Hardly showing for the short ball through the middle. So even if Lowe or Akpan managed to turn they had nothing simple to aim at. They had to play technically difficult through balls which frankly they struggled to do, lost the ball frequently, then passed backwards. We were setup to play long and direct but the keeper was determined to play it short.

Bring Guthrie in and we will improve a little but we need to keep it simple and direct. We aren't passing through any team with our players.

[den]

I would hazard a guess the contracts of 35 players he signed just about come to the same amount he had to release with Murphy, Ethu and Best contracts (the shebby disaster)

But Bowyer didn't sort out Murphy or etuhu, the chairman did that. Best was sold willingly by Bowyer - he wasn't hard done to there, because he didn't want him.

[Speedie Dived]

And? The point Speedie dived was making was that none of the current problems (on the pitch) are Bowyers fault.

I wasn't. He and the team have many faults. I was saying that throughout his tenure he has been working with one disaster from another going on.

But Bowyer didn't sort out Murphy or etuhu, the chairman did that. Best was sold willingly by Bowyer - he wasn't hard done to there, because he didn't want him.

No but his budget is reduced having to pay these players off. So instead of Bowyer having more millions to spend it went to paying these players off and numerous more (Portuguese mob) and then us scratching around in the bargain bin.

[den]

I wasn't. He and the team have many faults. I was saying that throughout his tenure he has been working with one disaster from another going on.

None of these disasters affected him. He's been given tremendous backing overall, for a club facing a transfer embargo. I'll go back to my original question - how many more players will he need to get us up. 100/150?

[Rover_Shaun]

I wasn't. He and the team have many faults. I was saying that throughout his tenure he has been working with one disaster from another going on.

Name them?

Shebby had gone. Agnew had gone. There was some money in the pot. The owners had lost interest and shut their gobs.

In comparison to the 2 managers before him his tenure has been a bed of roses. Berg didn't even get a transfer window to waste money on the likes of Marshall who turns up 1 game in 28

You can cite Best and Ethuhu etc as problems but they weren't for him as they never got a sniff and were sidelined to training with the youngster as Bowyer never even attempted to reintegrate them.

In the end players have been paid to leave which is a luxury many manager would love when saddled with previous managers duds

Magnificent

[Speedie Dived]

None of these disasters affected him. He's been given tremendous backing overall, for a club facing a transfer embargo. I'll go back to my original question - how many more players will he need to get us up. 100/150?

You cannot see that paying off players has an affect on his transfer budget? The volume of player is irrelevant, it's about quality and ££££££.

Name them?

Shebby had gone. Agnew had gone. There was some money in the pot. The owners had lost interest and shut their gobs.

In comparison to the 2 managers before him his tenure has been a bed of roses. Berg didn't even get a transfer window to waste money on the likes of Marshall who turns up 1 game in 28

You can cite Best and Ethuhu etc as problems but they weren't for him as they never go a sniff .

Best, Ethu and Murphy and portuguezzers severely reduced his transfer kitty with their pay offs. He has had to cut costs from day 1.

Disaster two is working with Shaw

And three is the embargo.

[Rover_Shaun]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. As long as people are prepared to excuse Bowyer for being crap at most facets of the job he is paid for the club will sleep walk nearer and nearer to league 1.

He's lived in and is still living in a managerial dreamland compared to Berg and Appleton (this is not saying they weren't shi.te)

[Coatbridge rover]

So shopping at pound land should make it a racing certianty that we go up.Den your old enough to remember the dark days,were there again just got a bloody big beautiful stadium to rattle about in.Every team that goes up this season will spend in excess off 15 million.

[Speedie Dived]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. As long as people are prepared to excuse Bowyer for being crap at most facets of the job he is paid for the club will sleep walk nearer and nearer to league 1.

He's lived in and is still living in a managerial dreamland compared to Berg and Appleton (this is not saying they weren't shi.te)

If it wasn't for Bowyer we would have been in league 1 two years ago. And, once again, i am far from his biggest fan but if we do end up in league 1 it will not be because of whoever happens to be in charge at the time.

[Coatbridge rover]

But Bowyer didn't sort out Murphy or etuhu, the chairman did that. Best was sold willingly by Bowyer - he wasn't hard done to there, because he didn't want him.

The club did not want best.

[Speedie Dived]

So shopping at pound land should make it a racing certianty that we go up.Den your old enough to remember the dark days,were there again just got a bloody big beautiful stadium to rattle about in.Every team that goes up this season will spend in excess off 15 million.

The team that got promoted last year into the Championship just had a £9 million bid accepted for a striker!!!!!

[Coatbridge rover]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. As long as people are prepared to excuse Bowyer for being crap at most facets of the job he is paid for the club will sleep walk nearer and nearer to league 1.

He's lived in and is still living in a managerial dreamland compared to Berg and Appleton (this is not saying they weren't shi.te)

That's the 1st donation to the Gary out plane.

The team that got promoted last year into the Championship just had a £9 million bid accepted for a striker!!!!!

I understand its posters who still think jack is here.

[Mattyblue]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. As long as people are prepared to excuse Bowyer for being crap at most facets of the job he is paid for the club will sleep walk nearer and nearer to league 1.

And isn't that the crux of the matter?

When does Bowyer carry the can? We fall into League 1, 'well we had the embargo', 'he's learning his trade'. 'who else is going to work for these clowns?'

Do we then become happy mid table in League 1? 'well what else can we expect?'

A lot of support for Bowyer revolves around 'stability', 'didn't he do well two years ago' etc. But nobody can answer in what way we are 'stable' on the pitch. It is poor quality, ineffective football, players like Marshall, Cairney have declined on his watch, the defence is still a shambles, we have no cohesive system that I can tell, unfit, not particulary motivated players.

It has been consistently poor in 2015, yet stating that the manager is not up to it is demed beyond the pale?