[Archived] Cardiff At Home 18Th August

[RevidgeBlue]

  On 20/08/2015 at 08:06, Jimmy612 said:

What a clown

Indeed.

Completely unfair slur by the original poster. Gordon isn't particular at all about which player he unfairly lambasts. Jordan Rhodes wasn't black last time I looked!.

[Rover_Shaun]

Rhodes - scores goals by the bucketful - criticised

Lowe - league 2 level statue - heralded

Hmmmm

[tomphil]

The exact same discussions are going on in regards to Jason Lowe as went on two seasons ago when he was a mainstay/weakpoint in Bowyers team every week in his first season in charge. In two seasons time the same things will be said again.

The guy is a squad man at best, when we have other options as we have now then his rightful place is on the bench, not right back, not first sub but there to fill in his natural position if needed. Another huge example of Gaz learning absolutely nothing.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I would be curious as to how many games Lowe played under other managers (incl England). As with Hanley (regular for Scotland) so called favouritism seems to be regularly used to beat GB with.

[DE.]

According to wiki Lowe has played 11 U21 games and 5 U20 games. I'd assume the majority of his U21 games were under Stuart Pearce?

[Gav]

  On 19/08/2015 at 23:49, onlyoneDuff said:

My mistake...felt like a promotion season as I believe he joined when we were in a relegation scrap and helped us beat the drop...felt like promotion to me That the time...as for drog...I stand by my statement that you have consistently if not covertly criticized roverd players of colour through the years...call me an idiot all you want hard man but pointing out that you have praised one player proves nothing...and what difference is my colour...proves my point

I've been on this site for far to many years and I can say hand on heart that I've NEVER been of the opinion that Gordon has targeted any player because of there skin colour, simply not true onlyoneDuff as far as I'm concerned.

[joey_big_nose]

I've defended Lowe on here before. Trier, athletic, puts a tackle in. However we look to have better players now - Hope and Guthrie are both a step up - he needs to be dropped.

[tomphil]

  On 20/08/2015 at 09:05, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I would be curious as to how many games Lowe played under other managers (incl England). As with Hanley (regular for Scotland) so called favouritism seems to be regularly used to beat GB with.

Not when there are better options available.

[thenodrog]

  On 20/08/2015 at 06:26, Rover_Shaun said:

Tell me about it. You tried to imply several times that Rovers spent most of their history yo-yoing between tier 2 and 3 of the football pyramid. Doh!

Unsurprisingly you have conveniently missed the 'since the abolishment of the maximum wage' bit in order to prove your point. It's that that wrecked all hope for the smaller clubs. Also we cannot really include the Walker years as anything other than a glorious bubble in our history.

[thenodrog]

  On 20/08/2015 at 07:32, K-Hod said:

I'll be honest Gordon, when it comes to the football side of things I'm usually in agreement with most of what you say, but it seems as though you've backed yourself into a corner re Lowe. In a midfield 2 he's a passenger, in a 3 he's right enough.

If everyone else is saying he's rubbish and you're the only one defending him.....

It's not just that K-Hod, Lowe as I've said is no Tugay for sure, although the fact that successive professional managers see more in him than the supporters speaks volumes. It's the continual and damaging attitude of the know nowt sheep on the terraces who ALWAYS have to have a hate figure out there on the park. I've likened the malaise to a virus because it spreads so quickly. Hanley was taking over in Lowe's absence through injury as the hated one. Lots wanted him out of the door but now Lowe's back the pressures off him and he's playing to his considerable ability again. The gormless gits ripped at N'Zonzi for long enough and since he left he's gone on to make their opinions look stupid. Same with loads... sherwood, carsley, neill, Pederson to name just a few. Browns copping it now too. He's obviously out of form but plenty appear stupid enough to think that kind of treatment will improve a player's performance? How brain dead is thet? I can't stand a bully, and even less the sycophants who follow them and I never have been able to.

v Cardiff there were loads of players who made mistimed passes, lots of back passes and lots of mistakes all met without a murmur yet the minute Lowe passes back to a player with time and space there is uproar. I recall Koita hilariously falling over his own feet when attempting to take a shot in the 1st half, the sadly out of touch Marshall blazed another into Row Z but not a whisper for either comic moment. Guthrie and the entire defence played passes back to Raya at some time or other but not a murmur from the numpties. Imagine the howls of outrage and faces twisted with fury if Lowe had done the same?

If this goes on a decent player will be forced out of the club by the boo boys who imo are little more than wannabee playground bullies and enemies within of the entire club.

And if anyone comes out with that repetetive shyte about 'it's not the fault of the fans' well this time it bloody well is.

  On 20/08/2015 at 08:06, Jimmy612 said:

What a clown

With a death wish it seems jimmy.

  On 20/08/2015 at 08:23, RevidgeBlue said:

Most people would say he doesn't have any. Can't (or doesn't) shoot, tackle or get a toe in, pass the ball forward or more than 5 yards, get forward or harass and close the opposition down.

We all know he isn't Glenn Hoddle as Gordon put it, trouble is, he isn't Robbie Savage either. Not by a very long stretch, and that's the crux of the matter.

Silly point really. Glenn Hoddle and robbie Savage wouldn't be here in this Division though would they? Times and circumstances have changed Simon. You need to do the same.

  On 20/08/2015 at 08:26, RevidgeBlue said:

Indeed.

Completely unfair slur by the original poster. Gordon isn't particular at all about which player he unfairly lambasts. Jordan Rhodes wasn't black last time I looked!.

JR can appear lazy and sulky on occasion though.

  On 20/08/2015 at 08:40, tomphil said:

The exact same discussions are going on in regards to Jason Lowe as went on two seasons ago when he was a mainstay/weakpoint in Bowyers team every week in his first season in charge. In two seasons time the same things will be said again.

The guy is a squad man at best, when we have other options as we have now then his rightful place is on the bench, not right back, not first sub but there to fill in his natural position if needed. Another huge example of Gaz learning absolutely nothing.

And get these two new boys firing and he might well be on the bench. Top players certainly wont sit on our bench these days will they?

  On 20/08/2015 at 10:45, joey_big_nose said:

I've defended Lowe on here before. Trier, athletic, puts a tackle in. However we look to have better players now - Hope and Guthrie are both a step up - he needs to be dropped.

And I'll have no problem with that at all. A stupid pack hounding him from the ten bob terraces I do have.

[tomphil]

I'd be quite happy to have a bench full of ex academy players. Come on though the new boys could turn out to be the new championship version of Tugs & Sav but there will still be a place for Lowey !!

[JAL]

Learning from Thenodrog, would you continually encourage back passes from your players that allows the opponents to go on the front foot or would you encourage your players to turn with the ball thus putting your opponents on the back foot.

Which is the positive way to play football and which is the negative way ?

[Blueandwhitemike]

If I remember right, Mokoena was only ever good in a 5 man midfield, where he was just sitting and the team were on the whole pretty defensive, battling to get away from the relegation zone and happy to finish in the bottom half. When he played in a four man midfield and a team with higher expectations he wasn't up to it.

Although Lowe is a different player I think in a similar situation he'd do similarly well. If this team is hoping better than just avoiding the drop then he's not good enough ( I don't think the Axe would be either).

Bloody mentioned in the transfer thread that Raya and the team have been doing the same stuff with passing back in preseason and the first few games, it was pointed out then that sooner or later we would concede because of it, and we did. Whilst I'm really not looking for another stick with which to beat Bowyer, and Raya was not faultless, I think the tactics played a big part in conceding that goal too.

Performance versus Wolves - not good, not bad

vs Shrews - awful

vs Huddersfield - poor

vs Cardiff - not good

Where does the buck stop? The manager... No surprise he is coming in for criticism.

Koita is no lummox Theno, hopefully in a few months someone can quote you and remind you of that. The airshot was a tackle, have a look at the highlights. Thing about him in the air, he's not really tall like Gestede, his ability in the air comes from his leap, much harder to do from goal kicks and and lumps up, much easier to do running on to the ball from crosses, as he showed with his offside goal and the one he had saved.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Wilcox came in for a fair amount of stick from some fans - but again (like Lowe) a limited player who did his job for the team and the manager.

[K-Hod]

  On 20/08/2015 at 11:28, thenodrog said:

It's not just that K-Hod, Lowe as I've said is no Tugay for sure, although the fact that successive professional managers see more in him than the supporters speaks volumes. It's the continual and damaging attitude of the know nowt sheep on the terraces who ALWAYS have to have a hate figure out there on the park. I've likened the malaise to a virus because it spreads so quickly. Hanley was taking over in Lowe's absence through injury as the hated one. Lots wanted him out of the door but now Lowe's back the pressures off him and he's playing to his considerable ability again. The gormless gits ripped at N'Zonzi for long enough and since he left he's gone on to make their opinions look stupid. Same with loads... sherwood, carsley, neill, Pederson to name just a few. Browns copping it now too. He's obviously out of form but plenty appear stupid enough to think that kind of treatment will improve a player's performance? How brain dead is thet? I can't stand a bully, and even less the sycophants who follow them and I never have been able to.

v Cardiff there were loads of players who made mistimed passes, lots of back passes and lots of mistakes all met without a murmur yet the minute Lowe passes back to a player with time and space there is uproar. I recall Koita hilariously falling over his own feet when attempting to take a shot in the 1st half, the sadly out of touch Marshall blazed another into Row Z but not a whisper for either comic moment. Guthrie and the entire defence played passes back to Raya at some time or other but not a murmur from the numpties. Imagine the howls of outrage and faces twisted with fury if Lowe had done the same?

If this goes on a decent player will be forced out of the club by the boo boys who imo are little more than wannabee playground bullies and enemies within of the entire club.

And if anyone comes out with that repetetive shyte about 'it's not the fault of the fans' well this time it bloody well is.

With a death wish it seems jimmy.

Silly point really. Glenn Hoddle and robbie Savage wouldn't be here in this Division though would they? Times and circumstances have changed Simon. You need to do the same.

JR can appear lazy and sulky on occasion though.

And get these two new boys firing and he might well be on the bench. Top players certainly wont sit on our bench these days will they?

And I'll have no problem with that at all. A stupid pack hounding him from the ten bob terraces I do have.

What I will say is Gordon, pretty much every time a pass went backwards, regardless of the offender it was met with groans, Lowe was probably the guiltiest, but he wasn't alone.

I try to look a bit beyond that, why is it going backwards? The movement of the players is very limited, and there was never anyone available to pass to!

[Rover_Shaun]

  On 20/08/2015 at 10:55, thenodrog said:

Unsurprisingly you have conveniently missed the 'since the abolishment of the maximum wage' bit in order to prove your point. It's that that wrecked all hope for the smaller clubs. Also we cannot really include the Walker years as anything other than a glorious bubble in our history.

so 2 relegations and 5 years in the 3rd tier makes us a yo-yo club? You need a lie down Gordon

[A cup of beans]

  On 20/08/2015 at 12:23, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Wilcox came in for a fair amount of stick from some fans - but again (like Lowe) a limited player who did his job for the team and the manager.

Cant see how you can compare the two players and situation.

Wilcox contributed countless assists and match winning performances. He was simply under appreciated by some, but he proved his worth.

IMO, Lowe's lack of appreciation comes as people cant see him contributing.

[Blue blood]

  On 20/08/2015 at 11:28, thenodrog said:

It's not just that K-Hod, Lowe as I've said is no Tugay for sure, although the fact that successive professional managers see more in him than the supporters speaks volumes. It's the continual and damaging attitude of the know nowt sheep on the terraces who ALWAYS have to have a hate figure out there on the park. I've likened the malaise to a virus because it spreads so quickly. Hanley was taking over in Lowe's absence through injury as the hated one. Lots wanted him out of the door but now Lowe's back the pressures off him and he's playing to his considerable ability again. The gormless gits ripped at N'Zonzi for long enough and since he left he's gone on to make their opinions look stupid. Same with loads... sherwood, carsley, neill, Pederson to name just a few. Browns copping it now too. He's obviously out of form but plenty appear stupid enough to think that kind of treatment will improve a player's performance? How brain dead is thet? I can't stand a bully, and even less the sycophants who follow them and I never have been able to.

v Cardiff there were loads of players who made mistimed passes, lots of back passes and lots of mistakes all met without a murmur yet the minute Lowe passes back to a player with time and space there is uproar. I recall Koita hilariously falling over his own feet when attempting to take a shot in the 1st half, the sadly out of touch Marshall blazed another into Row Z but not a whisper for either comic moment. Guthrie and the entire defence played passes back to Raya at some time or other but not a murmur from the numpties. Imagine the howls of outrage and faces twisted with fury if Lowe had done the same?

If this goes on a decent player will be forced out of the club by the boo boys who imo are little more than wannabee playground bullies and enemies within of the entire club.

And if anyone comes out with that repetetive shyte about 'it's not the fault of the fans' well this time it bloody well is.

Again if you say it with enough assertiveness maybe it'll become fact. Problem is you're totally wrong - when other players made pointless backwards passes there were groans from the terraces and complaints - and rightly so the lack of imagination in the passing at times was appalling. But hey. you can't be seen to be wrong, so let's change reality.

Incidentally he's no hate figure of mine, but Lowe has had a poor start to the season, and only if you are trying to be controversial would you try defending his performance vs Cardiff.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

  On 20/08/2015 at 15:46, Blue blood said:

Again if you say it with enough assertiveness maybe it'll become fact. Problem is you're totally wrong - when other players made pointless backwards passes there were groans from the terraces and complaints - and rightly so the lack of imagination in the passing at times was appalling. But hey. you can't be seen to be wrong, so let's change reality.

Incidentally he's no hate figure of mine, but Lowe has had a poor start to the season, and only if you are trying to be controversial would you try defending his performance vs Cardiff.

I agree he has had a poor start to the season. I agree that the groans on terraces weren't exclusively for Lowe. However - the groans on this MB from a section of the contributors are always for Lowe - in this case he is right, people seem to ignore other players faults but highlight Lowe's. TBH he has had such a poor start to the season that I doubt many would back him at the moment - but for some on this MB he has always been a convenient whipping boy - and Gordon is right with this.

[tomphil]

People groaned at both Conway and Marshall when both punted crosses into touch in the BBE when very well placed and with time and space. They aren't hate figures, infact Lowe got forward once and in time and space punted a useless ball into touch and I don't even recall anyone groaning at him then, just a collective shake of heads.

[thenodrog]

  On 20/08/2015 at 12:42, Rover_Shaun said:

so 2 relegations and 5 years in the 3rd tier makes us a yo-yo club? You need a lie down Gordon

Suit yourself. You have a lot to learn.

btw am I correct in thinking you didn't have a ST last season? If so are you going to Ewood this season?

[Hasta]

Lowe come in for no more or less stick than the rest of the team. He gets stick on here because we have seen he isn't good enough for so long.

Gordon's highly dramatic post ends with the fact that it will be the fans that forced Lowe out of the club. If he was getting merciless, uncalled for catcalling (like Brown is getting) then I would agree. However practically everyone is saying he shouldn't be in the side but also practically everyone is saying he didn't cop any more stick than anyone else at the game. Surely we can say a player is poor on a messageboard. Just because so many people have the same opinion, that doesn't mean it is bullying. It probably means it's true!!

For balance, I though Delfonso would be an awful signing but he's been far better than I though so far. I can admit when my view is wrong .

  On 20/08/2015 at 12:32, K-Hod said:

What I will say is Gordon, pretty much every time a pass went backwards, regardless of the offender it was met with groans, Lowe was probably the guiltiest, but he wasn't alone.

I try to look a bit beyond that, why is it going backwards? The movement of the players is very limited, and there was never anyone available to pass to!

Whilst there was much better movement infront of the midfield in the second half, we suddenly started to play balls through the middle a lot better once Guthrie came on and he's hardly Glen Hoddle either. I wonder why?

[thenodrog]

  On 20/08/2015 at 15:46, Blue blood said:

Incidentally he's no hate figure of mine, but Lowe has had a poor start to the season, and only if you are trying to be controversial would you try defending his performance vs Cardiff.

Has he? If he has then by that measure so to has Raya, Henley, Duffy, Olsson, Marshall and Rhodes.

  On 20/08/2015 at 18:11, Hasta said:

Lowe come in for no more or less stick than the rest of the team. He gets stick on here because we have seen he isn't good enough for so long.

Gordon's highly dramatic post ends with the fact that it will be the fans that forced Lowe out of the club. If he was getting merciless, uncalled for catcalling (like Brown is getting) then I would agree. However practically everyone is saying he shouldn't be in the side but also practically everyone is saying he didn't cop any more stick than anyone else at the game. Surely we can say a player is poor on a messageboard. Just because so many people have the same opinion, that doesn't mean it is bullying. It probably means it's true!!

For balance, I though Delfonso would be an awful signing but he's been far better than I though so far. I can admit when my view is wrong .

Whilst there was much better movement infront of the midfield in the second half, we suddenly started to play balls through the middle a lot better once Guthrie came on and he's hardly Glen Hoddle either. I wonder why?

Hey I'm not defending Lowe at all. His play, effort and contribution to the team effort has to do that. ... I'm just refusing to join the hanging party which seems to appeal to so many.

[Hasta]

  On 20/08/2015 at 18:16, thenodrog said:

Has he? If he has then by that measure so to has Raya, Henley, Duffy, Olsson, Marshall and Rhodes.

Hey I'm not defending Lowe at all. His play, effort and contribution to the team effort has to do that. ... I'm just refusing to join the hanging party which seems to appeal to so many.

There's no hanging party on a match day (yet) He doesn't get the stick Andrews got on a match day. The purpose of this messageboard is surely to state opinions. The majority of people now think he isn't a very good footballer.

To say that " a decent player will be forced out of the club by the boo boys who imo are little more than wannabee playground bullies and enemies within of the entire club. " puts me in that bracket for repeatedly stating my opinion on here, and is quite frankly bullocks.

[Stuart]

  On 20/08/2015 at 10:45, joey_big_nose said:

I've defended Lowe on here before. Trier, athletic, puts a tackle in. However we look to have better players now - Hope and Guthrie are both a step up - he needs to be dropped.

Once again. If fit, Lowe will start every game.

It doesn't matter if we have better players or get better results without him.