[Archived] Rovers V Bolton 28Th August

[Hasta]

Well as far as I am concerned I was in the "vaguely hopeful that Bowyer would improve, think changing manager under Venkys is too big a gamble despite Bowyer being weak" start of season to now "things are so poor Im almost willing to support rolling the dice and chopping Bowyer despite having no confidence in the board/owners to pick a decent manager"

It really is a great set of options at our disposal....

Its a bit like the labour leadership vote, completely flawed Al.

Match days are the true test and up to now the fans seem behind the Bowyer.

That's rubbish Gav. Just because a lot of people aren't verbally calling for the managers head on a match day doesn't mean they want him to stay.

By a similarly stupid argument, you cold say the fact that 98% of the crowd are not singing "Gary Bowyers Blue and White Army" means that 98% want him gone.

You are dismissing the view of people on here as though they will naturally be more dissentful. Rubbish. Joey above doesn't sound like some terrace neanderthal who wants instant success and is hounding poor GB out. He is probably like a hell of a lot more fans than you think.

[den]

The squad, which Bowyer assembled, is rubbish.

Could he have brought better players in on reduced wages and no transfer fees, maybe, maybe not, but the fact remains he's working with substandard players and some sections of support are expecting play off pushes, cloud cuckoo land for me.

People keep telling you that it's his squad Gav. The recent FFP embargo has had very little effect on his ability to sign players. He's known it's been coming for a long time now, yet for some inexplicable reason chose to ignore it when assembling such an unbalanced, low quality squad of players.

Tell me again, how many midfielders have we got?

[Gav]

That's rubbish Gav. Just because a lot of people aren't verbally calling for the managers head on a match day doesn't mean they want him to stay.

By a similarly stupid argument, you cold say the fact that 98% of the crowd are not singing "Gary Bowyers Blue and White Army" means that 98% want him gone.

You are dismissing the view of people on here as though they will naturally be more dissentful. Rubbish. Joey above doesn't sound like some terrace neanderthal who wants instant success and is hounding poor GB out. He is probably like a hell of a lot more fans than you think.

Hasta you've gone on a bit of rant their my friend, how many times can you get rubbish into 1 post

Nevertheless, its my opinion that polls on here are flawed, anyone can post a vote and the numbers are less than 1% of the fanbase.

Myself I feel talking to people and gauging the feeling of the crowd on a match day is a better representation of how people are feeling about things, so thats what I based my post on and I'm well aware not everyone can do that.

You of course are more than welcome to gauge opinion in any way you see fit, neither of us are right or wrong.

Thats just my opinion, hope you don't rubbish it again

[Mike E]

It's called a representative sample GAV. Works in elections and it works on here. You can't go around denying the result because it's not what you wanted by saying the sample was not representative.

While I agree with the sentiment, what actually shows a representative sample is under debate for now after the massive errors made in Election forecasts.

As a psychology grad, I've always gone on 20xn ('n' being number of voting options). It's why I needed 200 samples for a 10-question survey :/

If a poll reached 20xn participants I'd personally believe it to be a representative sample.

[Gav]

People keep telling you that it's his squad Gav. The recent FFP embargo has had very little effect on his ability to sign players. He's known it's been coming for a long time now, yet for some inexplicable reason chose to ignore it when assembling such an unbalanced, low quality squad of players.

Tell me again, how many midfielders have we got?

Thats a very bold statement den, how do you know that?

As far as I'm aware he's missed out on a number of players due to the wage restrictions that have been put upon player purchases, and thats been in place since the start of last season I hear.

He's working with poor players, if we had a different manager he to would be working with poor players because we don't have the money bring in better players as wages are out of our reach.

[ABBEY]

While I agree with the sentiment, what actually shows a representative sample is under debate for now after the massive errors made in Election forecasts.

As a psychology grad, I've always gone on 20xn ('n' being number of voting options). It's why I needed 200 samples for a 10-question survey :/

If a poll reached 20xn participants I'd personally believe it to be a representative sample.

huh?

[den]

As far as I'm aware he's missed out on a number of players due to the wage restrictions that have been put upon player purchases, and thats been in place since the start of last season I hear.

That's another airey fairey comment Gav. "From what I hear" you say? You've designed that from nothing to try to substantiate an opinion.

The wage restriction under embargo is ten grand a week - more than enough to attract decent players in this league. That figure is considerably above the average wage. He's had great backing Gav, 35 players in all, with another half a dozen signed this window.

[Rover_Shaun]

Gary Rowett " I cannot even compete with clubs under an embargo in terms of wages"

[mustard]

Hasta you've gone on a bit of rant their my friend, how many times can you get rubbish into 1 post

Nevertheless, its my opinion that polls on here are flawed, anyone can post a vote and the numbers are less than 1% of the fanbase.

Myself I feel talking to people and gauging the feeling of the crowd on a match day is a better representation of how people are feeling about things, so thats what I based my post on and I'm well aware not everyone can do that.

You of course are more than welcome to gauge opinion in any way you see fit, neither of us are right or wrong.

Thats just my opinion, hope you don't rubbish it again

Personally, I've spoken to plenty of fans on and around match days and I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 want him gone. Plenty of differing opinions on what direction we should go, but the resounding opinion from BRFC faithful is that Bowyer isn't good enough. Hell, I'd say there's less than 10% who actually think he is doing a good job at present, most of these people simply harp on about we could employ someone worse, or how he did a really good job two and a half years ago. If you gave every Rovers fan the chance to swap Gary for Pearson or someone of the like, I'd imagine 99% would swap in a heartbeat, with Reg the cookoo LT poster and his best mate Beetlejuce the only ones who wouldn't.

Listen carefully to the murmurs at Ewood. Strike up a conversation with anyone, whilst the majority of fans might not be vocal in their opinions, but they still have them nonetheless. There are no doubt plenty more who've given up on attending over the last two years who share a similar view.

That's another airey fairey comment Gav. "From what I hear" you say? You've designed that from nothing to try to substantiate an opinion.

The wage restriction under embargo is ten grand a week - more than enough to attract decent players in this league. That figure is considerably above the average wage. He's had great backing Gav, 35 players in all, with another half a dozen signed this window.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/north-west/146521-insider-football-finance-championship-wage-bill-tops-500m/

Wasn't sure where to post this. Our wage bill is 5th in the Champ based on last season. Remove Best and Robinson from these wages and we are still top 6 I think. This is because even the plodders down at Brockhall get a damn good wage. I have no doubt Brown is earning close to £10k a week. Have a look at this Gav and tell me where all these fairytale restrictions are that Bowyer has had to contend with before FFP.

Some will harp on about how much he's cut the wage budget and then follow with the "we are where we are" "can't compete with top clubs" etc etc when recent data has shown we have turnover exceeding the majority of Champ clubs and a wage bill to match. I hope some of those in favour of Bowyer can look at these figures and see how the man isn't turning the club away from financial oblivion, but seemingly doing his best to ensure it.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The infamous 1% Gav?....your sounding like your mate king Rat!!!

[onlyonejackwalker]

Personally, I've spoken to plenty of fans on and around match days and I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 want him gone. Plenty of differing opinions on what direction we should go, but the resounding opinion from BRFC faithful is that Bowyer isn't good enough. Hell, I'd say there's less than 10% who actually think he is doing a good job at present, most of these people simply harp on about we could employ someone worse, or how he did a really good job two and a half years ago. If you gave every Rovers fan the chance to swap Gary for Pearson or someone of the like, I'd imagine 99% would swap in a heartbeat, with Reg the cookoo LT poster and his best mate Beetlejuce the only ones who wouldn't.

Listen carefully to the murmurs at Ewood. Strike up a conversation with anyone, whilst the majority of fans might not be vocal in there opinions, but they still have them nonetheless. There are no doubt plenty more who've given up on attending over the last two years who share a similar view.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/north-west/146521-insider-football-finance-championship-wage-bill-tops-500m/

Wasn't sure where to post this. Our wage bill is 5th in the Champ based on last season. Remove Best and Robinson from these wages and we are still top 6 I think. This is because even the plodders down at Brockhall get a damn good wage. I have no doubt Brown is earning close to £10k a week. Have a look at this Gav and tell me where all these fairytale restrictions are that Bowyer has had to contend with before FFP.

Some will harp on about how much he's cut the wage budget and then follow with the "we are where we are" "can't compete with top clubs" etc etc when recent data has shown we have turnover exceeding the majority of Champ clubs and a wage bill to match. I hope some of those in favour of Bowyer can look at these figures and see how the man isn't turning the club away from financial oblivion, but seemingly doing his best to ensure it.

Exactly. Bowyer's had no money.

35 players on 10k per week is 17.5 million per year alone in wages.

No money? He's waxed a kings ransom.

[Gav]

That's another airey fairey comment Gav. "From what I hear" you say? You've designed that from nothing to try to substantiate an opinion.

The wage restriction under embargo is ten grand a week - more than enough to attract decent players in this league. That figure is considerably above the average wage. He's had great backing Gav, 35 players in all, with another half a dozen signed this window.

What I hear is what you hear den and our wages are well below 10k a week, not 4k a week like Bolton, but less than 10k.

If anyone thinks Delfy and the recent additions are on 10k a week they're in my opinion sadly mistaken, same with most players brought in over the past 12/18 months.

I'd be interested to know which players could have been brought in to improve our first 11 under embargo or with 10k a week to play with before embargo, because we've not been paying more than 10k for a while now.

You can all throw your rattles out of the pram with regards to Bowyer, makes no difference to me, I'm just offering my opinion. I've been going for over 40yrs and in my experience if the fans are unhappy with the manager they'll turn on him, thats not happened yet, will it happen soon? maybe, but its not happened YET.

[den]

What I hear is what you hear den and our wages are well below 10k a week, not 4k a week like Bolton, but less than 10k.

If anyone thinks Delfy and the recent additions are on 10k a week they're in my opinion sadly mistaken, same with most players brought in over the past 12/18 months.

I'd be interested to know which players could have been brought in to improve our first 11 under embargo or with 10k a week to play with before embargo, because we've not been paying more than 10k for a while now.

You can all throw your rattles out of the pram with regards to Bowyer, makes no difference to me, I'm just offering my opinion. I've been going for over 40yrs and in my experience if the fans are unhappy with the manager they'll turn on him, thats not happened yet, will it happen soon? maybe, but time will tell chaps.

But the embargo hasn't restricted what we can pay in wages Gav, - as you said earlier, that it did. You can get almost anyone in at that wage level, in this league. The fact that he's continually gone for a multitude of lower quality, lower wages - rather than a smaller, better balanced, possibly better quality squad is down to signing policy, not the embargo.

[Waggy76]

What I hear is what you hear den and our wages are well below 10k a week, not 4k a week like Bolton, but less than 10k.

If anyone thinks Delfy and the recent additions are on 10k a week they're in my opinion sadly mistaken, same with most players brought in over the past 12/18 months.

I'd be interested to know which players could have been brought in to improve our first 11 under embargo or with 10k a week to play with before embargo, because we've not been paying more than 10k for a while now.

You can all throw your rattles out of the pram with regards to Bowyer, makes no difference to me, I'm just offering my opinion. I've been going for over 40yrs and in my experience if the fans are unhappy with the manager they'll turn on him, thats not happened yet, will it happen soon? maybe, but its not happened YET.

Thats true Gav at a normal club , unfortunately we are not anymore....

Fear of the unknown especially with the Venkys record of appointing managers is frightening fans...

My view is Bowyer should be sacked immediately but he should never have been appointed , he is totally out of his depth...

Shaw wont rock the boat , he is on the gravy train , Venkys are clueless and dont care ...

The club is rotten to the cord and will remain so until the Venkys leave ...

[Gav]

But the embargo hasn't restricted what we can pay in wages Gav, - as you said earlier, that it did. You can get almost anyone in at that wage level, in this league. The fact that he's continually gone for a multitude of lower quality, lower wages - rather than a smaller, better balanced, possibly better quality squad is down to signing policy, not the embargo.

Whether it be Venkys/Shaw or Embargo, our wages have in the main been restricted to below 10k a week for 12/18 months now, so the players you attract are of lesser quality, other sides cast offs, we can;t attract the better players available at this level.

This is the reason why I think bringing in even a manager with vast experience at this level would struggle.

But lets face it, we can argue until the cows come home, we don't make the decisions at Ewood and until we get owners that give a toss about the club we're going to continue with a manager like Bowyer, no experience and cheap, and a wage structure for league 1.

[mustard]

But the embargo hasn't restricted what we can pay in wages Gav, - as you said earlier, that it did. You can get almost anyone in at that wage level, in this league. The fact that he's continually gone for a multitude of lower quality, lower wages - rather than a smaller, better balanced, possibly better quality squad is down to signing policy, not the embargo.

It's restricted us from going over £10k but it's still a good amount for this league and plenty of other teams who aren't in embargoes operate under tighter restrictions.

[Feniscowles Blue]

Personally, I've spoken to plenty of fans on and around match days and I'd say 8 or 9 out of 10 want him gone. Plenty of differing opinions on what direction we should go, but the resounding opinion from BRFC faithful is that Bowyer isn't good enough. Hell, I'd say there's less than 10% who actually think he is doing a good job at present, most of these people simply harp on about we could employ someone worse, or how he did a really good job two and a half years ago. If you gave every Rovers fan the chance to swap Gary for Pearson or someone of the like, I'd imagine 99% would swap in a heartbeat, with Reg the cookoo LT poster and his best mate Beetlejuce the only ones who wouldn't.

Listen carefully to the murmurs at Ewood. Strike up a conversation with anyone, whilst the majority of fans might not be vocal in there opinions, but they still have them nonetheless. There are no doubt plenty more who've given up on attending over the last two years who share a similar view.

http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/north-west/146521-insider-football-finance-championship-wage-bill-tops-500m/

Wasn't sure where to post this. Our wage bill is 5th in the Champ based on last season. Remove Best and Robinson from these wages and we are still top 6 I think. This is because even the plodders down at Brockhall get a damn good wage. I have no doubt Brown is earning close to £10k a week. Have a look at this Gav and tell me where all these fairytale restrictions are that Bowyer has had to contend with before FFP.

Some will harp on about how much he's cut the wage budget and then follow with the "we are where we are" "can't compete with top clubs" etc etc when recent data has shown we have turnover exceeding the majority of Champ clubs and a wage bill to match. I hope some of those in favour of Bowyer can look at these figures and see how the man isn't turning the club away from financial oblivion, but seemingly doing his best to ensure it.

Spot on. Great Post.

Gav, you are getting close to the Parson and Chaddy club. Arguing for the sake of it now. Be a man and just admit you backed the wrong horse

[DE.]

This is the reason why I think bringing in even a manager with vast experience at this level would struggle.

You referenced McCarthy yourself in an earlier post Gav, so why contradict that with a statement like this? You know full well a vastly experienced manager would very likely have us doing far better than we are now, and would have gotten us into far better positions over the past two seasons.

[broadsword]

You're tying yourself up in knots, Gavin.

Why can't you bring yourself to admit that he should be binned?

[mustard]

Gav doesn't really know what he wants. This isn't me having a go, as it's bizarrely understandable considering the last few years.

To summarise: He knows Bowyer ain't up to it, he wants him gone but doesn't want an inexperienced manager replacing him, he doesn't trust Venky's to replace GB , nor does he trust Venky's with anything at all and he doesn't like dogs to the extent that he thinks they should be banned.

Confusing times

[Gav]

This page demonstrates exactly why the site is suffering, nobody ever reads posts these days, you need to read peoples posts to gain context.

DE - Big Mick has been in management from 20yrs+ and he'd not get this side promoted, in my opinion.

Bryan - I've said many many times he should be sacked, I think we should sack him today, hope thats clear.

Mustard - See above.

[AllRoverAsia]

Gav doesn't really know what he wants. This isn't me having a go, as it's bizarrely understandable considering the last few years.

To summarise: He knows Bowyer ain't up to it, he wants him gone but doesn't want an inexperienced manager replacing him, he doesn't trust Venky's to replace GB , nor does he trust Venky's with anything at all and he doesn't like dogs to the extent that he thinks they should be banned.

Confusing times

I've with Gav re the Dogs and cats and Punites for that matter

Gav's point has for quite a long been that the first s-hit that needs to be flushed down the toilet is/are the Owner(s). He is right about that.

[Gav]

Spot on. Great Post.

Gav, you are getting close to the Parson and Chaddy club. Arguing for the sake of it now. Be a man and just admit you backed the wrong horse

You've not been on here long enough to tell me what I think or should do sunshine, so you carry on arguing with people for the sake of it and leave the real discussion to the adults

[mustard]

I've with Gav re the Dogs and cats and Punites for that matter

Gav's point has for quite a long been that the first s-hit that needs to be flushed down the toilet is/are the Owner(s). He is right about that.

He is, but realistically Venky's are going to remain in charge until THEY (and only they) choose to cut ties. It's within their power to change the manager and improve results. Whether they will do that or appoint someone better is another thing. Bottom line is, Venky's have the power to become better owners and improve things at the club but we don't have the power to remove them as owners. A managerial change for the better is far more realistic than Venky's packing it in. We live in hope, regardless.

[DE.]

DE - Big Mick has been in management from 20yrs+ and he'd not get this side promoted, in my opinion.

This season? Maybe, maybe not. We wouldn't be in danger of relegation with him at the helm though.

I think our team over the past two seasons has been better than his Ipswich team, though, so think he would have gotten us at the very least into the playoffs with a decent shout of getting up.

If Bowyer had managed to get us into the playoffs before the embargo, even if we hadn't gone up, I think a lot of people would be willing to give him more time. The sad fact is Bowyer failed in that objective - a target he himself set. His history with us is generally one of failed objectives, so if he starts targetting staying in the division we would be well advised to expect the worst.