[Archived] Bowyer Most Likely Not Sacked

[imy9]

yeah but it's all bowyer propaganda

In your opinion...

I disagree with a number of things Parson has said but he has his viewpoint and is very polite in the way he has put his view forward. Agree to disagree.

[USABlue]

Another consideration. When Souness was on the way to relegating us and had appeared to be powerless to stop it, people were more than happy to have him sacked. A proven manager who had seen it all and done it all, and brought us promotion and a domestic cup but he was wanted out.

Bowyer has brought us much much less yet people think he should stay.

Is this really anything to do with Rovers future under Bowyer - or his abilities - or are the concerns simply that Venkys/Shaw might bring in someone worse?

If people do think Bowyer has done everything he can and is going backwards then we have to roll the dice and see if Shaw can bring in a credible replacement.

In the interests of balance, here is a list of managers Shaw has worked with or recruited:

David Moyes

Craig Brown

Billy Davies

Paul Simpson

Alan Irvine

And wasn't Holloway Shaw's choice?

Are they really so terrible?

That's actually a half decent list.

[Mr. E]

with the defeat and this debacle, yesterday felt like the biggest punch in the gut as a Rovers fan in a long, long time. Still does.

[AllRoverAsia]

Weren't saving us when we went ten matches without a win.

In the 4 matches before that Rhodes goals were worth 7 points and also a lot of points after the ''10 matches without a win'', the last 3 games his goals got us 3 points - or could argue 5. Plus another 3 v Hudds.

But no it was all down to the genius of Bowyer.

[USABlue]

OK. You do the lies and I will do the stats and history.

Appleton sacked with Rovers 18th. 4 points above the drop zone.

1 draw and 2 defeats later Rovers were in the drop zone. No ifs no buts just facts.

It takes a while to stop a train.

[Stuart]

That's actually a half decent list.

Which has been all but ignored because it doesn't fit with the pro-Bowyer "agenda" that we couldn't possibly recruit better.

[ratters]

If we look at the cold hard facts then it seems as though promotion is a must in the short term (Venkys surely won't keep sticking cash into a black hole). I have been one for keeping Bowyer but deep down I think this is because he is a decent guy, who has the best intentions for the club and has been involved with the club for a while. If he had been brought in same as anyone else And had no connection to the club I think few would be arguing to keep him. He did the job required which was to stabilise but evidence suggests he can't take us to the next level. Defence still fragile and no consistent formation or team selection. we need an organiser and motivator in this league so I think we need to take the risk that the people responsible for making a new appointment get it right. I think we have little choice now and if we put emotion aside in terms of bowyer it has to be done.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Getting fed up of the jibes at Parson. Nasty. Why the view of one poster needs constant reference I've no idea.

His views are supported with certain evidence and common sense, respectful to those he personally believes to be trying their best with good motives and intentions.

For many of my Rovers supporting years, I, and most on here would have agreed 100%. We've always supported our club, players, management and given them every opportunity to succeed. It's one of the reasons I've been so proud of our club. The knowledge and patience displayed whilst retaining a fire, passion and hope for more.

At this time however I disagree totally. I believe PB to be simply too nice to understand fully the nature of the people involved. When the rats are running you need pest control. I said 6 months ago it still stank and needed cleansing. I said 4 weeks ago results would be key. It all kicked off quick as people try and protect their own interests, create a focal point, back stab, point fingers, blame others. Clean sweep still required of all.

Yesterdays events were totally shambolic. Who leaked to the Sun? Think about it. Makes little sense for Shaw to do it. What does he gain making himself look a bigger tit with the press announcing something so important before he does. So who else?

[JBiz]

Which has been all but ignored because it doesn't fit with the pro-Bowyer "agenda" that we couldn't possibly recruit better.

Pathetic Stuart. If you can look at the past 5 years and say that, I'm not sure what to think.

[USABlue]

Which has been all but ignored because it doesn't fit with the pro-Bowyer "agenda" that we couldn't possibly recruit better.

I am/was in the camp that they would screw it up but perhaps the list gives some hope, false hope probably. It's time for him to go.

[perthblue02]

Kean wasn't sacked - he resigned. I don't believe for one minute that the Indians would have sacked him.

Should that not be could instead of would ?

[yoda]

This is the stupid argument I don't get.

You say GB isn't the man to take us forward. We are well over £100 milliion in debt. We lost £30 mill last published year. We are regressing on the pitch. We are now in the bottom 3. Tactics are permanently inept. We may survive this season with Rhodes but for how long? League 1 is looming.

The only way this can be avoided is getting a manager that can get more out of the squad on the pitch. It's a relatively easy gamble once you realise you've not much to lose.

Stats do lie. However Keans record over a sustained period cannot. Nor can Bowyers over the last 2 years.

In his first season GB did a brilliant job to avoid relegation. He deserved a crack the following season. Fair enough. It's not gone on too long and we are beginning to regress alarmingly.

I don't think that is correct, it's been turned into shares

[USABlue]

Getting fed up of the jibes at Parson. Nasty. Why the view of one poster needs constant reference I've no idea.

His views are supported with certain evidence and common sense, respectful to those he personally believes to be trying their best with good motives and intentions.

For many of my Rovers supporting years, I, and most on here would have agreed 100%. We've always supported our club, players, management and given them every opportunity to succeed. It's one of the reasons I've been so proud of our club. The knowledge and patience displayed whilst retaining a fire, passion and hope for more.

At this time however I disagree totally. I believe PB to be simply too nice to understand fully the nature of the people involved. When the rats are running you need pest control. I said 6 months ago it still stank and needed cleansing. I said 4 weeks ago results would be key. It all kicked off quick as people try and protect their own interests, create a focal point, back stab, point fingers, blame others. Clean sweep still required of all.

Yesterdays events were totally shambolic. Who leaked to the Sun? Think about it. Makes little sense for Shaw to do it. What does he gain making himself look a bigger tit with the press announcing something so important before he does. So who else?

Yeah it's crass. The Parson thing.

[patrickvalery]

Without any agenda, I think it's a push to describe that as a good or half decent list really. And even if people disagree with that, employing a manager to work under the unorthodox structure at rovers is a different proposition to that at other clubs like pne. For example, one name on that list being Billy Davies. Can you imagine him putting up with the drawn out process of referring everything to India? I'm not saying that's a reason to keep Bowyer, but it can't be ignored that the way we operate will not only hinder any good manager we should appoint, but more importantly probably prevent us from ever appointing a good quality manager in the first place.

Replacing bowyer is like giving a smoker a lung transplant and watching him walk straight out of hospital and spark up another fag. The whole thing, from the top needs addressing. Personally I feel Bowyer has tried to address things from the bottom up. Our academy works to a definitive vision now. Whether that vision is right or wrong is up for debate. But you have to make a choice and run with it. He has also tried to rid the club of the money grabbing dross and instil a work ethic and pride back into the playing staff. Sadly, his undoing seems to be the all important business on a Saturday afternoon. Not to mention the squad may be better in terms of personalities, but it's below par in terms of quality (largely).

I realise I've always been in the minority regarding bowyer. But it's the good work he's done to cleanse us of the leaches post kean and the genuine work he's done for the good of the club which will always carry favour with me. He's had enough time to get it right on the pitch and for whatever reason it's not happening. If he's to go then he'll go with a large degree of gratitude from my direction. A good man who has done right by the club imo. Not something we've become used to in recent years. I certainly think some of the bile a few knobheads on here spout in his direction is out of order. But largely I've stopped pointing it out because there's a tendency to get shouted down.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I thought since mid-last season that Bowyer was not the man to get us promoted - I was prepared to give him that as he had earned it for the way we had finished the previous season. However - I will always be grateful for the job he has done - and I find the name calling, picking up on his favourite sound bites etc etc extremely distasteful and he deserves far more respect than this. For those that continue to support him - I can totally appreciate that point of view - but personally I thought the team we had last season good enough for promotion but we remained defensively tactically exposed time and time again

[Hasta]

I don't think that is correct, it's been turned into shares

So how much do we owe the Indian Banks? (serious question)

[A cup of beans]

In your opinion...

I disagree with a number of things Parson has said but he has his viewpoint and is very polite in the way he has put his view forward. Agree to disagree.

Nobody is sniping or throwing personal jibes at Parson.

It is an arena for debate

And he wishes to partake.

[Stuart]

You've really no idea, oojw? It's the polarity of the pro-Bowyer view. The reasons provided are fictional rather that factual. They have a basis in an alternate view of reality that border on propaganda.

Three key points:

Squad capability v fan expectation

Pro-Bowyer posters say upper midtable expectation because that's what he achieved with that squad. One group blames the players - and ignore the fact that the playing staff has varied, and up to this Summer Bowyer has not had to sell anyone he didn't want to (the pro-Venkys argument) - the other group blame the constant, the manager who has consistently not got the best out of any squad or formation, who benches the likes of Cairney, Tunicliffe, Judge and Kilgallon. His teams have failed.

Playing the youngsters

He has not done this consistently and they have barely got a look in. At the time, the pro-Bowyer argument was that they weren't good enough. Months later history is re-written that he is bringing youth through.

Stability

He has been the beneficiary of stability, not the instigator but this keeps being used as the main defence. The main thing that Bowyer has brought to the club this is just the positive way of saying that "he's not Kean".

None of these points are ever really resolved and all that happens is that the responses are ignored until the next time when they are trotted out as fact again.

The worst thing in all this is that like Kean, Bowyer is starting to polarise the fan base. With pro- or anti- groups forming. The anti-Kean group eventually resulted in protests. Whilst I don't think we will see real protests again, it is certainly dividing the fans and that is never good for the club.

If we are to get behind him we need to start seeing results, otherwise he'll just be the captain of a ship, that's heading towards an iceberg and he has no clue how to avoid collision. The rats have already fled, it's the rest of us that will go down with him whether we support him or not.

Pathetic Stuart. If you can look at the past 5 years and say that, I'm not sure what to think.

That post simply suggests you wanted to respond. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Shaw can't recruit better.

I follow up with a list of his previous choices.

You also ignore everything I've ever written about the last four managers.

Edit: if someone called Parson pathetic the mb would be up in arms but I'm fair game?

[Athlete]

Was told last night just before it viral with the press by a very reliable source then it comes out he hasn't been sacked.. Well it seems like somebody wants him out but doesn't have any authority to do so.. No way to run a club

[bigbrandjohn]

Another consideration. When Souness was on the way to relegating us and had appeared to be powerless to stop it, people were more than happy to have him sacked. A proven manager who had seen it all and done it all, and brought us promotion and a domestic cup but he was wanted out.

Bowyer has brought us much much less yet people think he should stay.

Is this really anything to do with Rovers future under Bowyer - or his abilities - or are the concerns simply that Venkys/Shaw might bring in someone worse?

If people do think Bowyer has done everything he can and is going backwards then we have to roll the dice and see if Shaw can bring in a credible replacement.

In the interests of balance, here is a list of managers Shaw has worked with or recruited:

David Moyes

Craig Brown

Billy Davies

Paul Simpson

Alan Irvine

And wasn't Holloway Shaw's choice?

Are they really so terrible?

[bigbrandjohn]

Ask Millwall how terrible Holloway is and ask Wigan how terrible Mackay is. Experienced managers at stable clubs. Give him a few more games and let the side bed in would be the logical choice. Many teams start off horrifically and then climb the table. Sadly the rumor yesterday put paid to any logic and the televised Bolton game is going to feel like Groundhog Day. Everyone including the media will be baying for blood.

[ABBEY]

As you are so fond of saying Abbey, whenever anyone points out weaknesses in the game of Rhodes, Haters gonna hate

Because he's got none

[Amo]

Stability has become stagnation. If you want to stop the rot, a change must be made. Venky's track record is less than stellar, to put it mildly, and the infrastructure is still shіt, but as we'll be headed to League One with Bowyer anyway, we might as well spin the wheel and see what happens.

[imy9]

Nobody is sniping or throwing personal jibes at Parson.

It is an arena for debate

And he wishes to partake.

He is promoting Bowyer's propoganda.

He has an agenda.

Parson and his clap trap.

That's just the last few pages.

[gumboots]

I'm with you there,toppers. Supporters of keeping bowyer keep saying it could get worse. What's worse than heading for league 1 which is what we're doing at the moment.