[Archived] Bowyer Most Likely Not Sacked

[RevidgeBlue]

Fair questions Mattyblue. However, I don't believe that you can answer the question without mentioning the dreaded "stability" word.

One of the issues that Bowyer has been faced with is trying to get the wage bill under control and offload a number of high earners. This he has done and at the same time lowered the average age of the players who are being brought into the club. In the immediate aftermath of the Kean-Black-Berg-Appleton-Shebby circus a period of stability - I know it's not a popular word - was required and he has delivered that. He has brought in players on the cheap and been able to sell them for sizeable profits - a skill that every successful manager at Ewood Park has possessed since the days of Johnny Carey's first spell at the club in the fifties. Whilst that may be of little comfort for supporters it is vital for the survival of clubs like the Rovers particularly when FFP means clubs have to try to become self sufficient

On the playing side I believe that he has looked beyond the first team and has tried to set up a fast track process by which younger players are pushed through earlier before being farmed out on loan to gain experience of the League at a lower level. In the long run one would hope that this would allow us to develop more of our own players.

Over the past two seasons we have achieved what I expected with our squad - a top half finish. This season I fully expect us to finish just below the half-way mark - between 12th and 15th - due to the restrictions that the embargo has placed upon us. Indeed, until it is lifted I don't believe we can challenge the top clubs in this League. To be honest, I believe that whoever the manager might be we are destined for a few more years outside of the Premier League.

I have always said that unless there is the imminent threat of relegation that a manager - any manager - should be given time. If we are threated with that in three months or four months time then clearly to need for change would be impossible to argue against. However, personally, I don't believe we are at that point just yet. The present team is fairly new - six players involved yesterday only arrived a matter of weeks or - in the case of Lawrence - days ago. It takes time to get the right blend. The days of Jack Walker, the Trust and Premier League glory are, sadly, long gone and the new reality is that we are just one of many Championship club who, if they have a good season could challenge for promotion, and if they have a bad one could be fighting the drop.

I accept that my views are not welcome within the confines of this forum but at the end of the day we are all entitled to have our own opinions - after all football is a game of opinions.

If we leave the situation three or four months with no tangible improvement, we'll be completely sunk Parson. It will be far too late for another manager to rescue the situation.

I have the utmost respect for your loyalty and longevity as a fan but I simply don't understand where you are coming from from on the Bowyer situation. You say he has done a good job. I see someone who has failed to achieve the play offs for 2 consecutive seasons with a squad that clearly should have done so. Last season I can't remember a single good performance at home for 90 mins, just a decent 45 here and there. That's no way to run a team.

After 96 games in charge ( excluding his first half season in charge) and thirty odd players in he's still no closer to knowing what his first X1 is. No matter what personnel he employs he seems to be completely unable to stop us leaking soft goals. Youngsters have generally not been integrated into the first team and are sold or released without ever being given a chance here. There is no defined style or pattern of play.

Should we not then have sacked Iley, Saxton, Mackay, Harford, Kidd, Hodgson, Ince, Kean, Berg or Appleton? After all I'm sure there was an argument for saying that each of those had to work under challenging circumstances of one form or another. Sometimes however it is clearly not working on the pitch, this is reflected in the form of performances and results and a change is needed, no matter how nice the personality involved.

As it appears he's still here for now I wouldn't give him any longer than the next four games max, two at home, two away to achieve a drastic improvement. We can't leave it any longer than that imo.

[T J Hooker]

My biggest worry too, that they will get it horribly wrong again.

Did they reLly get it "horribly wrong" with berg(or even Appleton? I think its fair to say the reasons thosr to didnt work out had more to do with all the power struggles behind the scenes at the time as well as having to deal with outspoken, vastly over paid, useless knobheads like best, etuhu, murphy, orr.. In the squad.

[Hasta]

Ask Millwall how terrible Holloway is and ask Wigan how terrible Mackay is. Experienced managers at stable clubs. Give him a few more games and let the side bed in would be the logical choice. Many teams start off horrifically and then climb the table. Sadly the rumor yesterday put paid to any logic and the televised Bolton game is going to feel like Groundhog Day. Everyone including the media will be baying for blood.

He's only had 119 games. Give him a few more.

Those of us that would have replaced him last February know this isn't about the first four games of this season.

[G Somerset Rover]

Can Kamy or anyone in the know shed any light on what actually went on yesterday and why The Sun were so certain that he was gone?

[DE.]

Can Kamy or anyone in the know shed any light on what actually went on yesterday and why The Sun were so certain that he was gone?

Kamy suggested yesterday that somebody at the club had informed the Sun that Bowyer was a goner, but had somehow misinterpreted a review as a sacking. Seems bizarre to me.

[USABlue]

Did they reLly get it "horribly wrong" with berg(or even Appleton? I think its fair to say the reasons thosr to didnt work out had more to do with all the power struggles behind the scenes at the time as well as having to deal with outspoken, vastly over paid, useless knobheads like best, etuhu, murphy, orr.. In the squad.

I do still feel Henning MIGHT have turned it around but based on results, yeah they got it horribly wrong.

[philipl]

Apparently the Sun are sticking to their guns in saying Venky's have decided to sack Gary Bowyer even though they have not actually done so yet....

[Hanks]

Apparently the Sun are sticking to their guns in saying Venky's have decided to sack Gary Bowyer even though they have not actually done so yet....

Well at least when Bowyer does go some time in the next year they can say "You read it here first"

[Mani]

Ask Millwall how terrible Holloway is and ask Wigan how terrible Mackay is. Experienced managers at stable clubs. Give him a few more games and let the side bed in would be the logical choice. Many teams start off horrifically and then climb the table. Sadly the rumor yesterday put paid to any logic and the televised Bolton game is going to feel like Groundhog Day. Everyone including the media will be baying for blood.

This post is an excellent base for my previous arguments about Gaz and he's done a good job for Rovers. Mackay and Holloways failures at those clubs are prime examples of how it is so hard, even for good, experienced managers to do well at clubs in turmoil...it highlights the excellent job Gaz did in stabilising our club which was almost certainly about to do a Wigan or a Millwall who could not be saved!!

I hate to say this, and I've never done this before...but those who trivialise the excellent work Gaz did in his first 18 months are utterly clueless!! Yes clueless! I KNOW some of the things they had to do and the circumstances they did it in and I KNOW at least 4/5 professional league managers who I have had conversations with and would not have fancied taking it on.

Gaz let himself down last season with a very strong squad which he had assembled and that is why I believe it's time for a change.

I am NOT a Rovers Fan. I am also not a keyboard warrior. Perhaps it's harder when you haven't seen these things with your own eyes but Surely Gaz deserves more respect for what he did when we were on our knees?

Why it has to be so vicious I'll never know. The guy genuinely cares...why can't it just be a case of "thanks very much but the time has come to move on?"

They know last season wasn't good enough.

[Hasta]

This post is an excellent base for my previous arguments about Gaz and he's done a good job for Rovers. Mackay and Holloways failures at those clubs are prime examples of how it is so hard, even for good, experienced managers to do well at clubs in turmoil...it highlights the excellent job Gaz did in stabilising our club which was almost certainly about to do a Wigan or a Millwall who could not be saved!!

I hate to say this, and I've never done this before...but those who trivialise the excellent work Gaz did in his first 18 months are utterly clueless!! Yes clueless! I KNOW some of the things they had to do and the circumstances they did it in and I KNOW at least 4/5 professional league managers who I have had conversations with and would not have fancied taking it on.

Gaz let himself down last season with a very strong squad which he had assembled and that is why I believe it's time for a change.

I am NOT a Rovers Fan. I am also not a keyboard warrior. Perhaps it's harder when you haven't seen these things with your own eyes but Surely Gaz deserves more respect for what he did when we were on our knees?

Why it has to be so vicious I'll never know. The guy genuinely cares...why can't it just be a case of "thanks very much but the time has come to move on?"

They know last season wasn't good enough.

I think you'll find a lot that want Bowyer to go agree with you.

He did a cracking job when he came in and probably earned himself a full season. However we've gone on 13 or 14 months to long.

[philipl]

I'd move him to Director of Football given his nose for finding players.

But if we want to stay up, or have any ambition to go up, then the change needs to be made.

[chor808]

Kamy suggested yesterday that somebody at the club had informed the Sun that Bowyer was a goner, but had somehow misinterpreted a review as a sacking. Seems bizarre to me.

This is basic stuff. What on earth is an employee of the club doing passing information on to a news paper before it is official. Try that in any other line of work and see if you get weeded out. We are in enough trouble as it is without more back room plots going on. Utterly stupid.

[Stuart]

I think you'll find a lot that want Bowyer to go agree with you.

He did a cracking job when he came in and probably earned himself a full season. However we've gone on 13 or 14 months to long.

Agreed.

Curiously, Mani seems to want it both ways: Bowyer gone and the moral high ground.

[Kamy100]

From what I have been able to gather, Venky's indicated that they would consider Gary's position if we failed to get a win yesterday. That was leaked to Ken Lawrence at the sun who ran the Gary has been sacked story, and then changed it to he will be sacked within 48 hours. Venky's haven't decided what they are going to do so the sun running that story was very premature. What is makes this all the more curious is that Ken is very close to Gary, so am bemused that he ran the story in the first place as he could have easily checked directly with Gary due to the relationship that he has with him, unless someone told him to run as normally do the opposite when stuff is leaked to the press.

Messy situation all round.

[imy9]

Agreed.

Curiously, Mani seems to want it both ways: Bowyer gone and the moral high ground.

Wants him gone but appreciates that Bowyer has done a good job in the circumstances?

Can see his point when some people think we were doing alright when he took over with 9 games left. The squad was a mess, there was no scouting network to speak of amongst other things.

However he has shown he cannot take us forward and this would be the ideal time to say thanks Bowyer but your services as manager are no longer required.

From what I have been able to gather, Venky's indicated that they would consider Gary's position if we failed to get a win yesterday. That was leaked to Ken Lawrence at the sun who ran the Gary has been sacked story, and then changed it to he will be sacked within 48 hours. Venky's haven't decided what they are going to do so the sun running that story was very premature. What is makes this all the more curious is that Ken is very close to Gary, so am bemused that he ran the story in the first place as he could have easily checked directly with Gary due to the relationship that he has with him, unless someone told him to run as normally do the opposite when stuff is leaked to the press.

Messy situation all round.

Interesting so the decision is yet to be made.

Why did they put a statement on the official site?!

[roverandout]

If we leave the situation three or four months with no tangible improvement, we'll be completely sunk Parson. It will be far too late for another manager to rescue the situation.

I have the utmost respect for your loyalty and longevity as a fan but I simply don't understand where you are coming from from on the Bowyer situation. You say he has done a good job. I see someone who has failed to achieve the play offs for 2 consecutive seasons with a squad that clearly should have done so. Last season I can't remember a single good performance at home for 90 mins, just a decent 45 here and there. That's no way to run a team.

After 96 games in charge ( excluding his first half season in charge) and thirty odd players in he's still no closer to knowing what his first X1 is. No matter what personnel he employs he seems to be completely unable to stop us leaking soft goals. Youngsters have generally not been integrated into the first team and are sold or released without ever being given a chance here. There is no defined style or pattern of play.

Should we not then have sacked Iley, Saxton, Mackay, Harford, Kidd, Hodgson, Ince, Kean, Berg or Appleton? After all I'm sure there was an argument for saying that each of those had to work under challenging circumstances of one form or another. Sometimes however it is clearly not working on the pitch, this is reflected in the form of performances and results and a change is needed, no matter how nice the personality involved.

As it appears he's still here for now I wouldn't give him any longer than the next four games max, two at home, two away to achieve a drastic improvement. We can't leave it any longer than that imo.

+1

[Neal]

Was the right man at the right time, I don't think anyone will deny him that but that time has passed. He hasn't taken his chance or developed at all as a manager and needs to find another club because it's just not working out for him here. I don't blame him for taking interest in other jobs but if he is then he needs to do the right thing an resign.

[Amo]

I'd move him to Director of Football given his nose for finding players.

Wouldn't Chief Scout be a more suitable role, in that regard?

Can't see a new manager wanting the ex-boss working above him as DoF.

[Craigman]

From what I have been able to gather, Venky's indicated that they would consider Gary's position if we failed to get a win yesterday. That was leaked to Ken Lawrence at the sun who ran the Gary has been sacked story, and then changed it to he will be sacked within 48 hours. Venky's haven't decided what they are going to do so the sun running that story was very premature. What is makes this all the more curious is that Ken is very close to Gary, so am bemused that he ran the story in the first place as he could have easily checked directly with Gary due to the relationship that he has with him, unless someone told him to run as normally do the opposite when stuff is leaked to the press.

Messy situation all round.

Do you think Gary will be gone this week ?

[Stuart]

Wants him gone but appreciates that Bowyer has done a good job in the circumstances?

Can see his point when some people think we were doing alright when he took over with 9 games left. The squad was a mess, there was no scouting network to speak of amongst other things.

However he has shown he cannot take us forward and this would be the ideal time to say thanks Bowyer but your services as manager are no longer required.

This is what EVERYONE who wants change is thinking. We do appreciate what he has done - but he has peaked. He was never a manager, maybe never will be. I don't even want him to leave the club, get him back working with the youth.

[DE.]

From what I have been able to gather, Venky's indicated that they would consider Gary's position if we failed to get a win yesterday. That was leaked to Ken Lawrence at the sun who ran the Gary has been sacked story, and then changed it to he will be sacked within 48 hours. Venky's haven't decided what they are going to do so the sun running that story was very premature. What is makes this all the more curious is that Ken is very close to Gary, so am bemused that he ran the story in the first place as he could have easily checked directly with Gary due to the relationship that he has with him, unless someone told him to run as normally do the opposite when stuff is leaked to the press.

Messy situation all round.

Amateur hour at the Sun then... shouldn't be surprised.

[chor808]

Do you think Gary will be gone this week ?

Can he continue after this? If he does go this is a poor way to do it.

[Neal]

From what I have been able to gather, Venky's indicated that they would consider Gary's position if we failed to get a win yesterday. That was leaked to Ken Lawrence at the sun who ran the Gary has been sacked story, and then changed it to he will be sacked within 48 hours. Venky's haven't decided what they are going to do so the sun running that story was very premature. What is makes this all the more curious is that Ken is very close to Gary, so am bemused that he ran the story in the first place as he could have easily checked directly with Gary due to the relationship that he has with him, unless someone told him to run as normally do the opposite when stuff is leaked to the press.

Messy situation all round.

This whole situation is venkys in a nutshell. Just be decisive for once you bloody cowards, if you don't want him then just get on with it.

Absolute morons.

96 games in charge... Wow. Look at where we are now.

[G Somerset Rover]

From what I have been able to gather, Venky's indicated that they would consider Gary's position if we failed to get a win yesterday. That was leaked to Ken Lawrence at the sun who ran the Gary has been sacked story, and then changed it to he will be sacked within 48 hours. Venky's haven't decided what they are going to do so the sun running that story was very premature. What is makes this all the more curious is that Ken is very close to Gary, so am bemused that he ran the story in the first place as he could have easily checked directly with Gary due to the relationship that he has with him, unless someone told him to run as normally do the opposite when stuff is leaked to the press.

Messy situation all round.

Thanks, Kamy. What's your gut feel about what will happen?

[Tom]

Interesting if Gary himself got his mate to run the story knowing Venkys then wouldn't do it