[Archived] Bowyer Most Likely Not Sacked

[RibbleValleyRover]

Its a good post Ribble but the sooner people realise that the real issue isn't Gary Bowyer the better, but under a different regime I'd agree wholeheartedly with you.

Sack Bowyer and we get another inexperienced manager on a cheap deal, its the Venkys way, we've seen it time and time again.

Debt, going bust etc etc I know I know we need Venkys, b0ll0x we do we're just existing now and dying a slow death, is that what people want?

Get rid of venkys should be everyones main objective, Gary Bowyer isjust a side show.

I agree Gav that Venky's are a problem and I think most fans would agree. Problem is they are going nowhere and in fact despite all their mistakes we could be a lot worse off without their money. I just can't see Venky's selling up and then some white knight riding in to save the club financially, remember this club was on the market for years and that was with low debt and top half/pushing for Europe in the Premier League. The club's finances are a hell of a lot worse now than back then.

But that doesn't mean we can't focus on the on the field stuff and looking to drastically improve on that front.

[perthblue02]

I am guessing what it boils down to is finances.

How can we replace Bowyer with a high quality manager (wages and payoff) and meet the requirements/come out of Financial fair Play (not spend which seems to be the requirement of late).

I'm guessing therefore the question that needs posing would be-where would the money come from?

Rhodes sale??? (If he hasn't been sold yet i'm guessing this isn't an option as he is perhaps seen as our iconic signing) so where????

Would one option be for Venky's to pay personally x amount to an outside consultant to advise them on a failing part of their business empire, as part of this rather large consultancy fee the Consultant employs and pays 50-75% of the consultancy fee to the specialist and parachutes him into Ewood Park for a specified time period with Blackburn Rovers agreeing to pay the specialist a reasonable fee for his time .

[den]

You've got a dam site more faith in Shaw and Venkys than I have den, and don't tell me it can't be any worse because it can, much worse.

Who said I had faith Gav? I'm just replying to your oft repeated argument that nothing will change until the owners leave. I'll give you two statements -:

1) Changing owners won't guarantee improved results. In fact it won't even guarantee we'll have a club in five years time.

2) improving on Bowyer will guarantee improved results.

So what do we do?

[PAFELL]

Too many conspiracy theories wasting too much bandwidth (again). People talking about deliberate leaks are in fantasy land.

The journalist Ken Lawrence was at Deepdale to cover PNE v Ipswich on Saturday.

He didn’t file the report that the Sun published on their website. He sent a speculative email (which I’ve now seen) – not the published article – to the Sun sports desk, suggesting that GB might be at risk as the first managerial casualty of the season. As any manager might be with zero wins from five games.

How the Sun then translated that email into an article saying GB was already sacked is a mystery, (or is it ~~ cough) but it does explain why they had to revise the original piece which had already triggered copycat reports all over the internet. Damage already done a cynic might SuggEst … or Maybe it was just a “flier”.

The fact that the journalist in question was in Preston rather than Pune also pours cold water on any theory that the real decision makers might have lurched into action.

Where I would agree with some earlier posts is this – Bolton on Friday takes on massive significance. A good 3 points for Rovers begins to shift a rank crap start towards a rank average start. Anything less turns a crap start into a totally unacceptable start for me, and I suspect for the majority of Ewood Park as well.

In which case anyone who might act on a message from the attending home fans, should certainly hear it and take note.

Good post.

[RibbleValleyRover]

I think we are all aware that if Bowyer goes Venky's could make an even worse appointment, but there will be credible candidates with experience and a profile in the game that will apply for the job I am confident of that. Whoever they pick it is out of our control though but who knows they might actually get it right this time. Put it this way, they will have the opportunity to pick someone who is an improvement but they have to take it.

People say sticking with Bowyer is a safe option, is it really? You may be safe for a year or two (and that is up in the air based on current form) but the financial situation means longer term you are far from safe. All managerial changes are gambles and I think at this current time it's worth making one.

[Mullionvagrant]

I think we are all aware that if Bowyer goes Venky's could make an even worse appointment, but there will be credible candidates with experience and a profile in the game that will apply for the job I am confident of that. Whoever they pick it is out of our control though but who knows they might actually get it right this time. Put it this way, they will have the opportunity to pick someone who is an improvement but they have to take it.

People say sticking with Bowyer is a safe option, is it really? You may be safe for a year or two (and that is up in the air based on current form) but the financial situation means longer term you are far from safe. All managerial changes are gambles and I think at this current time it's worth making one.

So a club who has just brought in 6 new very average players and has potentially 1 place left in the squad (unless key talent like Rhodes/Marshell is sold). Who cannot afford to pay wages above £10.000 and is subject to FFP is an attractive option to a manager wanting to stamp his mark. Not to mention the uncertainty with owners/shaw/last few years etc.... Yes RibbleValleyRover the application pile would be massive!!!

[Gav]

Who said I had faith Gav? I'm just replying to your oft repeated argument that nothing will change until the owners leave. I'll give you two statements -:

1) Changing owners won't guarantee improved results. In fact it won't even guarantee we'll have a club in five years time.

2) improving on Bowyer will guarantee improved results.

So what do we do?

It needs a group of fans to make things uncomfortable for Venkys, bit like a section of the Bpool fans are doing to Oyston.

Its rumoured they exposed an ALLEGED affair brilliant move by the way if true, and now the club are under serious financial sanctions if they misbehave again, thats making things uncomfortable for the owners.

At Ewood the desire just isn't their YET, but I live in hope

I agree Gav that Venky's are a problem and I think most fans would agree. Problem is they are going nowhere and in fact despite all their mistakes we could be a lot worse off without their money. I just can't see Venky's selling up and then some white knight riding in to save the club financially, remember this club was on the market for years and that was with low debt and top half/pushing for Europe in the Premier League. The club's finances are a hell of a lot worse now than back then.

But that doesn't mean we can't focus on the on the field stuff and looking to drastically improve on that front.

The club could be available for £1 if they can be moved/forced out, plenty of buyers at that price, gordons dusting off his cheque book I hear.

As for improving things on the pitch in the meantime,Impossible under Venkys in my opinion RVR.

[rovers11]

Whatever happens over the next few days, it is a case of WHEN rather than if he will be sacked.

Seems to have lost the support of the owners. I don't believe he went to India in the summer in the end to meet the owners? That perhaps tells you what they think of him.

[thenodrog]

Bowyer did a good job in awful circumstances when he caretakered and then took over. Last season, he had assembled a squad well capable of promotion but apart from a week in 6th place at the end of November, never got within sniffing distance of going up.

By now, the weaknesses should be being resolved if not resolved. Bowyer might be showing signs of being able to have a prepared Plan B but in reality any "thinking" football manager can sucker punch the Rovers with a subtle or painfully obvious change of game plan.

As for our defence, organising it doesn't seem to be a Bowyer strength.

Perhaps it is worth asking, do you feel reasonably confident of not losing to the dingles this season?

More to the point, it is early April next year and we desperately need a win at Ewood to avoid relegation becoming very tricky to avoid. Do you expect GB to inspire the team and 10,000 Rovers fans to a do or die effort?

Anyone answered yes to either or both of those questions?

That's a good argument gunner until you consider the fact that out of a grand total of 8 we've only had two proper managers this century, a couple of debateable ones and at least 4 that I wouldn't touch again with a bargepole.

[Neal]

So a club who has just brought in 6 new very average players and has potentially 1 place left in the squad (unless key talent like Rhodes/Marshell is sold). Who cannot afford to pay wages above £10.000 and is subject to FFP is an attractive option to a manager wanting to stamp his mark. Not to mention the uncertainty with owners/shaw/last few years etc.... Yes RibbleValleyRover the application pile would be massive!!!

You've been bought by the sob story... I think it was Gary Rowett who said that he couldn't even compete with embargoed clubs and look at the job he's done. Another poster on here said that 10,000 pw was near enough the average wage for a championship footballer, it may have been 8k.

We need to stop using the this embargo as some sort of excuse, we have probably the most expensive striker in the league and other valuable assets such as Marsh and (ahem) Hanley, the rest would probably end up at other Championship clubs if made available.

[thenodrog]

Yep, we all know where the crux of our problems lie. Thing is - and an alternative viewpoint to Gavs - improving on the manager will show improvement on the field, whoever the owners are.

Indeed it will den........... and vice versa!

Would one option be for Venky's to pay personally x amount to an outside consultant to advise them on a failing part of their business empire, as part of this rather large consultancy fee the Consultant employs and pays 50-75% of the consultancy fee to the specialist and parachutes him into Ewood Park for a specified time period with Blackburn Rovers agreeing to pay the specialist a reasonable fee for his time .

Crikey!..... isn't that a lot like what was done with Anderson and Kean? Can't see em doing that again and I don't bloody well want to!

[Baz]

You've been bought by the sob story... I think it was Gary Rowett who said that he couldn't even compete with embargoed clubs and look at the job he's done. Another poster on here said that 10,000 pw was near enough the average wage for a championship footballer, it may have been 8k.

We need to stop using the this embargo as some sort of excuse, we have probably the most expensive striker in the league and other valuable assets such as Marsh and (ahem) Hanley, the rest would probably end up at other Championship clubs if made available.

Bolton have instigated a wage cap of £4k / wk as a way of trying to self-regulate their finances.

[Mullionvagrant]

You've been bought by the sob story... I think it was Gary Rowett who said that he couldn't even compete with embargoed clubs and look at the job he's done. Another poster on here said that 10,000 pw was near enough the average wage for a championship footballer, it may have been 8k.

We need to stop using the this embargo as some sort of excuse, we have probably the most expensive striker in the league and other valuable assets such as Marsh and (ahem) Hanley, the rest would probably end up at other Championship clubs if made available.

Realistically at the start of the window maybe.... but we have just brought in new players and shipped out. With 1 place left in the squad (plus any sales) then there is not much room for any new manager to make their mark (so a much less attractive option).

I am not using financial fair play as an excuse-but to say it doesn't limit us is highly unrealistic.

Yes there would be applicants...but to expect high quality is perhaps unrealistic.

For me though the worrying thing is not FFP or the implications it is who within the club would be in a position to organise and make a suitable appointment (think Berg, appleton, black etc)

[RevidgeBlue]

I am guessing what it boils down to is finances.

How can we replace Bowyer with a high quality manager (wages and payoff) and meet the requirements/come out of Financial fair Play (not spend which seems to be the requirement of late).

I'm guessing therefore the question that needs posing would be-where would the money come from?

Rhodes sale??? (If he hasn't been sold yet i'm guessing this isn't an option as he is perhaps seen as our iconic signing) so where????

Oh and who would make the appointment decision Shaw??? (owners by their own admittance haven't got footballing knowledge). Who would advise if not-shudders at the thought........

Money spent on the manager's salary isn't relevant for FFP purposes is it?

[den]

Indeed it will den........... and vice versa!

Of course Gord. Getting someone in worse than Bowyer will adversely affect results. So at what point do we decide we want to improve? Ever, - never?

Money spent on the manager's salary isn't relevant for FFP purposes is it?

Why not? It will affect losses won't it?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Complete and utter chaos,the club is going backwards once again at an alarming rate.

So Bowyer is not for the sack,how long does he have? what targets have been set this season?does anyone within the club give a shiny shyte?

For me the message is simple to Bowyer....SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT AS MATTERS ARE CURRENTLY UNACCEPTABLE.

No other areas of Business and Industry would put up with such a level of underperformance,you and this team Bowyer are NOT on easy street and you all damn well need a sharp kick up the arse.

The fans of this club are rapidly losing patience!!

[Mullionvagrant]

Seriously please answer these.

If a decision is made to remove Bowyer.

1) Who will make this decision?

2) Who will be in charge of looking for a replacement, what will this process look like?

3) What would be the financial implications re: debts (and FFP). of this in our current position? Can we actually afford to sack Bowyer.

4) What sort of package could we realistically offer a manager? (Backroom staff/coaches, wages, transfer funds, contract length/terms etc).

[Stuart]

Seriously please answer these.

If a decision is made to remove Bowyer.

1) Who will make this decision?

2) Who will be in charge of looking for a replacement, what will this process look like?

3) What would be the financial implications debts (and FFP) of this in our current position?

4) What sort of package could we realistically offer a manager? (Backroom staff/coaches, wages, transfer funds, contract length/terms etc).

1) Desai and the Rao brothers. Advised by Shaw.

2) Shaw

3) We would be no worse off than we are right now.

4) Standard basic for a club of our size/expectation, with a massive promotion bonus. (How much do you think our competitors are paying their managers?)

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Why dont you ask the fools who are purporting to run this chaotic club...

[RevidgeBlue]

Of course Gord. Getting someone in worse than Bowyer will adversely affect results. So at what point do we decide we want to improve? Ever, - never?

Why not? It will affect losses won't it?

Suppose so, but it all seems to work retrospectively and in any event is there anything to stop the owners say paying a manager 3m p.a. but leasing a few executive boxes off us for the same amount or renaming the Riverside the Venky's Express Riverside for the same amount?

Genuine question as I don't know the answer but it seems to work OK for the likes of Cotehill.

[thenodrog]

Complete and utter chaos,the club is going backwards once again at an alarming rate.

So Bowyer is not for the sack,how long does he have? what targets have been set this season?does anyone within the club give a shiny shyte?

For me the message is simple to Bowyer....SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT AS MATTERS ARE CURRENTLY UNACCEPTABLE.

No other areas of Business and Industry would put up with such a level of underperformance,you and this team Bowyer are NOT on easy street and you all damn well need a sharp kick up the arse.

The fans of this club are rapidly losing patience!!

Rubbish. If they are doing then it's 5 years too late. The time for action was when we were in the Prem with an independent income of 50-60 million pa, an experienced and skilled manager and a proper administration running the show. Once we were relegated we became dependent on the venky nipple, and life without their financial support does not bear thinking about.

[Baz]

Exceptions from the allowable losses are:

expenditure on infrastructure

promotion bonuses

youth development

exceptional items (as agreed by the Fair Play panel).

Read more at http://www.football-league.co.uk/news/article/2015/football-league-ffp-guidance-2632728.aspx#rDAesKZ8JqiOpakX.99

[Stuart]

Rubbish. If they are doing then it's 5 years too late. The time for action was when we were in the Prem with an independent income of 50-60 million pa, an experienced and skilled manager and a proper administration running the show. Once we were relegated we became dependent on the venky nipple, and life without their financial support does not bear thinking about.

You think we should have protested as soon as Venkys arrived?

Wrong. We had no choice but to accept what happened at the start. The time for action was when Kean was in charge past his sell by date and almost got us relegated.

Oh wait, we did (as you know full well) and we were shouted down by Proper Fans.

Are Venkys no longer your favourite owners?

[thenodrog]

They are the sole owners of BRFc and as such both my favourite owners and my least favourite owners. I've pretty much the same feelings for the supporters tbh.

The time for protest was when Allardyce was sacked (according to polls approx 80% of supporters disagreed with that didn't they? btw I'd wager most of the other 20% have since packed in) and if that wasn't enough for some when Williams followed him out of the door. Problem was imo that we have a povvi attitude around these parts and if we have bought a ST we will damned well have to use it.

[chaddyrovers]

For me the owners/Mrs D need to make a decision whether they are going back GB for the season or sack him. I hope they are not going to back him on a game by game basis. lose and we sack him and if we win then we back him. because if they are then it is pathetic and no way to run this GREAT football club and very unfair on the manager/coaching staff/players and the fans(which are very important). we don't need uncertain at all this season.

I like Bowyer a lot and maybe I am abit too loyal to him. I am happy to admit that and maybe that a fault of mine. Maybe it would be best if a change was made for the club, fans and the manager sake. I will say that I think Bowyer has done a good job for this club and he should be credit and give the respect for that considering the sh#t hole it was when he took over that summer. He has bought some good players for this league and I will admit he should have got us top 6 last season.

A decision need to be made this week and no later than the end of the weekend in my opinion. we have 2 weeks break after the Bolton game so we NEED A DECISION, whether we get one is a different question and a MAJOR problem.

Also another problem we have is WHO is going to pick the new manager and conduct interviews with potential managers IF Bowyer is sack. will it be Shaw/Slivester/Myers? will the Owners come over to interview potential managers along with Shaw? will they use an agent or one of their football advisors? will they speak to respectable people within the game like Kenny Dalglish, Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger?