[Archived] Dialogue With The Owners

[K-Hod]

Well they hired Jerome Anderson to find them a buyer and Venkys hired him to find them a club. So he got paid from both parties apparently. How dumb is that? Due diligence?

But we are talking about the past. I started the thread to discuss the future as a result of E.I.T. claiming there was no dialogue between the Rovers end of things(fans, local politicians, would-be buyers etc) and Venkys because of shortcomings on "our" part. We were not going the right way about it apparently.

I think this is nonsense. There is no dialogue because Venkys refuse to engage. You can't make the unfathomable Venkys talk to you if they don't want to. The extract from the Trust's recent email which I quoted in the very first post put it very well.

Through all this thread I have heard nothing from to justify EIT's claim and I'll repeat that I'm sick of people making excuses for Venkys arrogance and stupidity. They will literally be the death of us.

The bits in bold are the key points for me.

I wouldn't say it was making excuses for their arrogance and stupidity, it's just trying to make sense of just why they seem to be happy with making profits on players, yet losing way more on an annual basis, it simply doesn't make sense. But then, nothing about their involvement has.

[Iceman]

The bits in bold are the key points for me.

I wouldn't say it was making excuses for their arrogance and stupidity, it's just trying to make sense of just why they seem to be happy with making profits on players, yet losing way more on an annual basis, it simply doesn't make sense. But then, nothing about their involvement has.

agents and others fingers in the pie?

[K-Hod]

agents and others fingers in the pie?

But then, why would they keep losing money hand over fist without really trying to rectify it?

[AllRoverAsia]

But then, why would they keep losing money hand over fist without really trying to rectify it?

Maybe they have structured it so that these losses can be written off against profits in other parts of their chicken empire. I am not an accountant but they could employ the best. Otherwise what they are up to is lunacy.

[JHRover]

The Trust can be blamed for everything because they were willing to offload the club to anyone who offered them the money for it, with little/no regard for the impact it would have on the football club. Remember Ahsan Ali Syed? They were keen on selling it to him before Panorama unearthed his past. Look what he did to Racing Santander - he could quite easily have done the same to us – all because the Trust were happy to sell to anyone as long as they got the money.

We need to remember that it wasn't their club to sell. They were merely looking after it on Jack’s behalf. It was Jack Walker's club and the Trust members were employed and paid by Jack Walker's estate to look after the club and ensure it was supported in the long term. They didn't. They stopped spending, repeatedly cashed in on our assets, deprived the club of modest investment and then sold it to the first people who put the money on the table.

Venkys are now a symptom of the neglect and indifference that the Trust fund inflicted on the club. In the same way that Singh/Kean were symptoms of Venkys. The Trust are the root cause and source of the problems we face today, because if the Trust had done their side of the bargain and their job properly, and only sold the club if it was clearly in the best interests of the club, then Venkys would never have got control and the last 5 years wouldn’t have happened.

It doesn’t matter whether the Trust were interested in football or BRFC. They had no choice in the matter. I’m not particularly interested in my uncle’s garden centre business that his family have had for generations, but if he left it to me in his will with clear instructions to ensure the business survived long term then I wouldn’t sell it to people with no interest in the trade with possible ulterior motives.

The Trust were paid by Jack Walker to do a job properly, but because it ‘wasn’t their passion’ that appears to justify a lack of investment and indifference to the clubs future.

Peddling the story that 'they couldn't have known' what Venkys were going to do is just making excuses for them when they don't deserve excuses. These people were extremely wealthy and well paid people who Jack Walker instructed to look after his interests. They sold his football club and passion to people with major question marks next to their name, and that’s not even getting on to the influence of agents in the takeover which many people in football saw as a major issue before and during the takeover process.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry could see problems down the line when selling an English Premier League football club to Indian Poultry businessmen with no knowledge of the sport and whose sole motivating factor in the purchase appears to have been boosting their own brand.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry with any interest in the success and future of Blackburn Rovers would have realised during discussions that Venkys and their associates were perhaps not the best people to be buying the club. The Trust could and should have put a stop to it then, but they saw Jack’s £20 million and wanted that, and to hell with the future of the club.

Even today they are hiding away. Five years have passed and not one of their members has gone public with concerns, regret, an apology for what has happened and their role in welcoming Venkys through the door. That in itself highlights their complete indifference.

Yet supporters still want to shield them from blame and criticism because they are associated with Jack Walker in their name and link to him.

All you need to do is ask 2 questions:

1) Would Jack Walker have sold this club to Venkys? No. Because he cared. The Trust didn't.

2) Would Jack Walker be pleased that his Trust, that he employed to look after his interests, decided to sell his club to the Indians? No he wouldn't.

[Neil Weaver]

I'm not going to disagree with your post JH, and the sentiment behind it. But what struck me is, like so many other posts, it covers what could be done differently if we could relive what's already happened. Much as we'd like to, we can't do that. It might be unpalatable to many but we - as investors in the club in whatever way (ST holders, occasional ticket buyers, or just emotional etc) - have to find a way forward.

Anyway, it's already all been said hundreds of times by folk more eloquent than me.

Must be time for a VENKYS OUT......

[broadsword]

Well they hired Jerome Anderson to find them a buyer

I'm struggling to envisage the Trust meeting or knowing Anderson and thinking: "yeah, this is a guy we can trust to ensure that Rovers will be transferred to safe hands, we can relax secure in the knowledge that we'll be handing on this cornerstone of the community to people who will care for it like they were fans themselves."

It's either a shocking lack of care or judgement. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise given subsequent events, but just in case anyone takes a legal interest in this, what I've just written there is obviously just a fantasy.

[Reedy You're A Star]

Could be wrong, but wasn't it Rothschild''s who hired Anderson after not being able to find one themselves? The Trust obviously had to vet whoever was brought to the table and had the final say, so they have to take their share of the blame, but I don't think we can pin Anderson on them.

[philipl]

I believe Anderson got in through Rothschild's.

I also believe that many of you are giving the Trust a bad and unwarranted rub in your comments.

Ask yourself, do you think the Trustees were tasked by Jack to help his family first or the Rovers first- what would be reasonable?

By 2010, the average Premier League wage was getting to be significantly more than the Trust was probably paying to some beneficial members of the family- where would the Trustees concerns be first? Paying Kalinic and Grella or providing for Jack's heirs?

[K-Hod]

The Trust are far from blameless here.

By the end I don't think they cared who they sold the club to, just so long as they got rid.

[Gav]

I believe Anderson got in through Rothschild's.

I also believe that many of you are giving the Trust a bad and unwarranted rub in your comments.

Ask yourself, do you think the Trustees were tasked by Jack to help his family first or the Rovers first- what would be reasonable?

By 2010, the average Premier League wage was getting to be significantly more than the Trust was probably paying to some beneficial members of the family- where would the Trustees concerns be first? Paying Kalinic and Grella or providing for Jack's heirs?

Absolutely.

The Trust put the club up for sale, Syed came in and didn't pass the test, he was outed by the Trust as a crook (allegedly)

Venkys came in and passed all the tests with flying colours so they sold.

When you sell your house do you ask if the buyer is a fit and proper person? do you hell, you sell if they can afford the asking price and sod the neighbours, its the same principle here.

[tomphil]

I believe Anderson got in through Rothschild's.

I also believe that many of you are giving the Trust a bad and unwarranted rub in your comments.

Ask yourself, do you think the Trustees were tasked by Jack to help his family first or the Rovers first- what would be reasonable?

By 2010, the average Premier League wage was getting to be significantly more than the Trust was probably paying to some beneficial members of the family- where would the Trustees concerns be first? Paying Kalinic and Grella or providing for Jack's heirs?

It could have been that some assets were sold in order for the proceeds to be divided up amongst some members of the family as a one off settlement I suppose. Leaving the remaining assets under the trust to operate on a more lean and mean basis getting rid of a lot of financial drains in one go.

[speeeeeeedie]

Philip makes a good point. Rovers weren't the only interest the Trust had to manage under the auspices of "Jack's wishes". His business empire and personal holdings needed looking after too.

Rovers was one of a stream of his businesses that were hit by the recession. It looks like the Trust made a financial decision to offload a loss making asset with expected future costs doing nothing but spiral upwards. The fact that they, or Rothschild's, hired you know who to reach a sale sits uneasily with most fans.

The Trust was in place when Jack Walker died, this was pre-Abramovich at Chelsea, pre-Glazers at Man U, and pre-Sheikh's at City. These take overs shot Premier League football way out of Jack Walker's league. The 3 between them have spent £ billions over the last 10 years, far outstripping his wealth. The Trust knew they couldn't keep up with that type of spending. The wishes that Rovers became self sufficient were a pipe dream back then too. The youth set up could not and still cannot attract top players.

What is clear as day is that Venkys ownership has been a disaster. From mid table Premier League security to, at present, a no win Championship team suffering under a transfer embargo due to ever increasing debt in 5 years is something special. None of this should be blamed on the Trust.

If Venkys won't communicate fans have to hope that they keep pumping money in to keep the club afloat.

[K-Hod]

Yet supporters still want to shield them from blame and criticism because they are associated with Jack Walker in their name and link to him.

All you need to do is ask 2 questions:

1) Would Jack Walker have sold this club to Venkys? No. Because he cared. The Trust didn't.

2) Would Jack Walker be pleased that his Trust, that he employed to look after his interests, decided to sell his club to the Indians? No he wouldn't.

Nutshell.

[Amo]

The Trust can be blamed for everything because they were willing to offload the club to anyone who offered them the money for it, with little/no regard for the impact it would have on the football club. Remember Ahsan Ali Syed? They were keen on selling it to him before Panorama unearthed his past. Look what he did to Racing Santander - he could quite easily have done the same to us – all because the Trust were happy to sell to anyone as long as they got the money.

We need to remember that it wasn't their club to sell. They were merely looking after it on Jack’s behalf. It was Jack Walker's club and the Trust members were employed and paid by Jack Walker's estate to look after the club and ensure it was supported in the long term. They didn't. They stopped spending, repeatedly cashed in on our assets, deprived the club of modest investment and then sold it to the first people who put the money on the table.

Venkys are now a symptom of the neglect and indifference that the Trust fund inflicted on the club. In the same way that Singh/Kean were symptoms of Venkys. The Trust are the root cause and source of the problems we face today, because if the Trust had done their side of the bargain and their job properly, and only sold the club if it was clearly in the best interests of the club, then Venkys would never have got control and the last 5 years wouldn’t have happened.

It doesn’t matter whether the Trust were interested in football or BRFC. They had no choice in the matter. I’m not particularly interested in my uncle’s garden centre business that his family have had for generations, but if he left it to me in his will with clear instructions to ensure the business survived long term then I wouldn’t sell it to people with no interest in the trade with possible ulterior motives.

The Trust were paid by Jack Walker to do a job properly, but because it ‘wasn’t their passion’ that appears to justify a lack of investment and indifference to the clubs future.

Peddling the story that 'they couldn't have known' what Venkys were going to do is just making excuses for them when they don't deserve excuses. These people were extremely wealthy and well paid people who Jack Walker instructed to look after his interests. They sold his football club and passion to people with major question marks next to their name, and that’s not even getting on to the influence of agents in the takeover which many people in football saw as a major issue before and during the takeover process.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry could see problems down the line when selling an English Premier League football club to Indian Poultry businessmen with no knowledge of the sport and whose sole motivating factor in the purchase appears to have been boosting their own brand.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry with any interest in the success and future of Blackburn Rovers would have realised during discussions that Venkys and their associates were perhaps not the best people to be buying the club. The Trust could and should have put a stop to it then, but they saw Jack’s £20 million and wanted that, and to hell with the future of the club.

Even today they are hiding away. Five years have passed and not one of their members has gone public with concerns, regret, an apology for what has happened and their role in welcoming Venkys through the door. That in itself highlights their complete indifference.

Yet supporters still want to shield them from blame and criticism because they are associated with Jack Walker in their name and link to him.

All you need to do is ask 2 questions:

1) Would Jack Walker have sold this club to Venkys? No. Because he cared. The Trust didn't.

2) Would Jack Walker be pleased that his Trust, that he employed to look after his interests, decided to sell his club to the Indians? No he wouldn't.

This an exemplary post which should be quoted every time someone tries to absolve The Trust of any culpability for our current plight.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Absolutely.

The Trust put the club up for sale, Syed came in and didn't pass the test, he was outed by the Trust as a crook (allegedly)

Venkys came in and passed all the tests with flying colours so they sold.

When you sell your house do you ask if the buyer is a fit and proper person? do you hell, you sell if they can afford the asking price and sod the neighbours, its the same principle here.

So much for analogies and metaphors!

When you pay for your child to go to boarding school, do you check whether staff are qualified, have suitable CRB clearance, actually know how to run a school.......or just throw the child onto the first train?

[Rover_Shaun]

Irrelevance. What is to be done about the twts holding the reigns NOW!!?????

[Leonard Venkhater]

Irrelevance. What is to be done about the twts holding the reigns NOW!!?????

I am quite confident that it was relevant to the previous post.

I do agree a lot of energy is spent on conflict between fans about who must take responsibility for how we got here in the first place.While it is entirely understandable, it doesn't speak to how to solve the problems here and now

However, RS,I do think "twits" (lol)might underestimate what is going on. There is a reason why Venky's put no marks in key jobs and it is not naivety!

[onlyonejackwalker]

1. Would Jack have had sold to the Venkys?

Nope he did not need the money.

2. Would Jack be happy we sold to Indians?

What's Indians got to do with it? Maybe, maybe not, as I am not familiar with his personal preferences.

Would Jack be happy with how the club has been run by the new owners....certainly not.

Would Jack be happy the Trust protected his business interests in the way they saw fit? Yes. That's why he appointed them because he trusted their judgement and gave them responsibility.

Could the Trust have known the Venkys were stark raving mad? Nope.

Would the Trust presume the billionaire new owners to be suitable? Why not? The clue is in the word billionaires.

Should sentiment play a part in business decisions? Nope.

Should the Trust have known the Venkys would do everything possible to destroy everything Jack had worked for? How could they? Where is this crystal ball some of you are using?

Do I blame the Trust? Not in the slightest. If you were losing cash each week on an investment you never wanted you would get rid. If you had any sense that is.

[Amo]

1. Would Jack have had sold to the Venkys?

Nope he did not need the money.

2. Would Jack be happy we sold to Indians?

What's Indians got to do with it? Maybe, maybe not, as I am not familiar with his personal preferences.

Think you've taken that question out of context, as the actual wording was 'the Indians'.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Think you've taken that question out of context, as the actual wording was 'the Indians'.

It was a business decision.

I don't understand the reference to their nationality, especially in a post slating the previous owners for choosing them.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1. Would Jack have had sold to the Venkys?

Nope he did not need the money.

2. Would Jack be happy we sold to Indians?

What's Indians got to do with it? Maybe, maybe not, as I am not familiar with his personal preferences.

Would Jack be happy with how the club has been run by the new owners....certainly not.

Would Jack be happy the Trust protected his business interests in the way they saw fit? Yes. That's why he appointed them because he trusted their judgement and gave them responsibility.

Could the Trust have known the Venkys were stark raving mad? Nope.

Would the Trust presume the billionaire new owners to be suitable? Why not? The clue is in the word billionaires.

Should sentiment play a part in business decisions? Nope.

Should the Trust have known the Venkys would do everything possible to destroy everything Jack had worked for? How could they? Where is this crystal ball some of you are using?

Do I blame the Trust? Not in the slightest. If you were losing cash each week on an investment you never wanted you would get rid. If you had any sense that is.

I think the (mis) Trust SHOULD have known about the Barnet Spiv from his ...er...dealings at Man City?

[yoda]

It was a business decision.

I don't understand the reference to their nationality, especially in a post slating the previous owners for choosing them.

Think off it in the same was as The dingles or the Nobbers or Lashers

[onlyonejackwalker]

Think off it in the same was as The dingles or the Nobbers or Lashers

A term of endearment?

[chaddyrovers]

didn't David Brown(the Vice Chairman of Rovers at the time) work for the Walker's Trust and the man who did the background checks on the Venkys?