[Archived] Dialogue With The Owners

[Exiled in Toronto]

Which particular avenue do you believe has not been followed up? Easy to talk in general terms, but specifically what has not been done that should have been?

I remain convinced that these owners are impossible to deal with and will bring us to complete melt-down sooner or later.

See my answer to Baz for starters. In my experience of dealing with an Indian business (an Indian arm of the business I worked in, to be precise) anything that doesn't fit with how they do business has absolutley zero chance.

Rather than "They are impossible to deal with", I see it as, "None of the approaches to date have got anywhere, let's analyse why." Imagine McKinsey came up with a whizz-bang M&A opportunity for Venky's, I can't believe for a second they would try to sell it to them by firing off request for meeting emails to the family then harrumping that they didn't get a reply. Their Indian office would analyse how Venky's operated, how decisions were made, who had to be on board, who had the ear of the family and so on. And Venky's must get a lot of these approaches so will be very adept at batting them away. So McKinsey would probably look at examples of people who did sell them something, maybe meet with those people to get an idea of what goes on, what really happens in such a seemingly bizarre set-up.

I have no idea what the answers are to any of those questions, but, more importantly, I'm not convinced the Trust do either.

[BrisRover]

Where's a Global Advisor when you need one?

[yoda]

See my answer to Baz for starters. In my experience of dealing with an Indian business (an Indian arm of the business I worked in, to be precise) anything that doesn't fit with how they do business has absolutley zero chance.

Rather than "They are impossible to deal with", I see it as, "None of the approaches to date have got anywhere, let's analyse why." Imagine McKinsey came up with a whizz-bang M&A opportunity for Venky's, I can't believe for a second they would try to sell it to them by firing off request for meeting emails to the family then harrumping that they didn't get a reply. Their Indian office would analyse how Venky's operated, how decisions were made, who had to be on board, who had the ear of the family and so on. And Venky's must get a lot of these approaches so will be very adept at batting them away. So McKinsey would probably look at examples of people who did sell them something, maybe meet with those people to get an idea of what goes on, what really happens in such a seemingly bizarre set-up.

I have no idea what the answers are to any of those questions, but, more importantly, I'm not convinced the Trust do either.

Some good points there.

Now let's cut to the chase.

The Rao's know full well that people with good intentions have tried and in some cases succeded to make contact.

End result no meaningful dialog. If their decision making processes and governance are sound why the @#/? is the club screwed.

Also why should the onus be on the fan base to point out the Rao's failings.

The point you make about doing things their/Indian way is flawed, the Rovers are an English business subject to English governance and shaped by 140 years (on the 5th November this year) of history and tradition.

[47er]

CLB did, I joined in

All this emotive "Blaming the fans attitude". I must admit I find it hard to accept the "They won't talk to us"

when I believe not every avenue has been followed up, but you seem wedded to it.

I've asked you what avenues haven't been explored and all you come up with are suggestions that others immerse themselves in Indian culture! Who has the time, let alone the inclination?

YOU raised this issue a week or two back, you called for dialogue with the owners and clearly laid the blame for lack of progress with the Rovers side of the divide.

You also will not admit that many with Rovers interests at heart have tried and tried to get contact going and have not even received an acknowledgement.

I'm damned sure the Trust haven't got the answers to breaking the impasse. There aren't any. You can't talk to people who have no desire to talk to you.

The implications of all this are quite profound, this isn't a trivial discussion. IMO Its not "our club" anymore. Its Venkys club and they can do what they like with it.In fact they already have. The fans, the history, the effects on the local community are irrelevant to them.

What to do about it? I've said for years now that the best way to serve it up to Venkys is for Rovers to kick-off at Ewood and for no-one to be there. It would say it all about how we feel about the owners.

But nobodys going to drive me away from "my club" eh?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

What sort of owners of a business refuse to engage with its customers?

It really is an oddball situation this,unprecedented in football in this country..we are just the poor sods who pulled the short straw.

Do we have to crawl over broken Glass and kiss their feet to get an audience,yes,these same people who said they knew nothing about football!

Have the poor gullable sods been stung so many times by freeloaders they now trust NOBODY?

Christ almighty Arrrggghhh

[Jock]

Ive heard it all know. How the hell can fans be blamed for not taking every possible avenue to communicate with the Rao's ?

Is it our fault that we haven't enlisted some code breakers from GCHQ to get us through to Madame.

All I can think is that there's a percentage of people in life that enjoy being abused. So these must be the ones that support Venkys.

[Blackburn Ender]

It's a waiting and watching game now.

I can't believe we will have the same owners for years to come (although I have no evidence for this obviously - just wishful thinking).

Either an opportunity arises where we can get some sort of fan ownership or we wait for new owners and try for dialogue with them.

I do like the idea of nobody turning up for one protest game. How that gets organised I've no idea, but it would certainly attract a lot of publicity.

[Stuart]

Nope. It was a mistake I made and went down incredibly badly.

Yet Venkys listened to their like-a-brother figure.

So perhaps the strategy should be to appeal to somebody 'superior' to Venkys (in their eyes) who they might listen to. But who?

It's a waiting and watching game now.

I can't believe we will have the same owners for years to come (although I have no evidence for this obviously - just wishful thinking).

Either an opportunity arises where we can get some sort of fan ownership or we wait for new owners and try for dialogue with them.

I do like the idea of nobody turning up for one protest game. How that gets organised I've no idea, but it would certainly attract a lot of publicity.

You will NEVER convince all of the fans to boycott.

Even if it was for a great cause some are just like Venkys and will not be told what to do - in fact they would do the opposite.

[Iceman]

What sort of owners of a business refuse to engage with its customers?

It really is an oddball situation this,unprecedented in football in this country..we are just the poor sods who pulled the short straw.

Do we have to crawl over broken Glass and kiss their feet to get an audience,yes,these same people who said they knew nothing about football!

Have the poor gullable sods been stung so many times by freeloaders they now trust NOBODY?

Christ almighty Arrrggghhh

But Derek Shaw is always open to a nice chat

[yoda]

Ive heard it all know. How the hell can fans be blamed for not taking every possible avenue to communicate with the Rao's ?

Is it our fault that we haven't enlisted some code breakers from GCHQ to get us through to Madame.

All I can think is that there's a percentage of people in life that enjoy being abused. So these must be the ones that support Venkys.

Stockholm syndrome

[tomphil]

Where's a Global Advisor when you need one?

Busy advising Judan Ali how to worm his way into Venkys affections probably.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I've asked you what avenues haven't been explored and all you come up with are suggestions that others immerse themselves in Indian culture! Who has the time, let alone the inclination?

YOU raised this issue a week or two back, you called for dialogue with the owners and clearly laid the blame for lack of progress with the Rovers side of the divide.

You also will not admit that many with Rovers interests at heart have tried and tried to get contact going and have not even received an acknowledgement.

I'm damned sure the Trust haven't got the answers to breaking the impasse. There aren't any. You can't talk to people who have no desire to talk to you.

The implications of all this are quite profound, this isn't a trivial discussion. IMO Its not "our club" anymore. Its Venkys club and they can do what they like with it.In fact they already have. The fans, the history, the effects on the local community are irrelevant to them.

What to do about it? I've said for years now that the best way to serve it up to Venkys is for Rovers to kick-off at Ewood and for no-one to be there. It would say it all about how we feel about the owners.

But nobodys going to drive me away from "my club" eh?

I'm just making the point that if the Trust want dialogue with the owners, giving up won't get it. Keeping on trying may well not get it either, but it has more chance than taking their ball home.

Yet Venkys listened to their like-a-brother figure.

So perhaps the strategy should be to appeal to somebody 'superior' to Venkys (in their eyes) who they might listen to. But who?

You will NEVER convince all of the fans to boycott.

Even if it was for a great cause some are just like Venkys and will not be told what to do - in fact they would do the opposite.

Yes they did. So he figured it out.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Rather than "They are impossible to deal with", I see it as, "None of the approaches to date have got anywhere, let's analyse why."

.

Spot on John but 99 per cent of our support can't see it.

Initially, the intermediaries have to be Shaw and Myers. The Rovers Trust or any other bodies with Rovers' interests at heart have no chance.

The primary aim has to be to get Venky's to the table and start the dialogue. Just get them talking about their plans and goals, their thoughts on their first five years in charge and so on.

As I said on the 'Get Venky's To The Table' thread, Shaw and Myers are part of the problem. The clever bit will be, over time, to leave them out of the discussions and impress on Venky's that the internal structure at the club needs an overhaul in order for us to progress. It won't be easy but it can be done.

[den]

Errrrrrrr..........

Just remind me why "we" need to talk to them?

And when I say "we", exactly who are "we"? Who's got the mandate to represent me? How would anyone know exactly what I or anyone else wants from them?

A lot of unnecessary waffle going on here.

And in case we forget, some individuals have actually spoken face to face with them and it made no difference whatsoever. Truth is, they'll do however they see fit.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Just remind me why "we" need to talk to them?

.

If the status quo remains, we'll simply drop through the leagues.

We (supporters) either force them out (will never happen) or work with them.

Regarding a mandate, well there won't be one and has there ever been one?

Whilst some supporters seem to think Venky's are doing ok, anyone with any sense would want :-

a) Venky's out, new wealthy owners in

Venky's out, any owners in

c) Venky's to continue to fund the club but also to work with the supporters as per my previous post. a) and won't happen.

The 'we' could be the Rovers Trust, the Two Ian's or anyone wishing to put themselves forward. Just because Venky's have failed to communicate to date doesn't mean that will always be the case.

[TBTF]

Like I said, I'm not the one who wants to speak to them. And those that do seem to think everything possible was done, so I assume they could kill the debate easily by elaborating how the contact attempts incorporated an in-depth comprehension of Indian culture, Indian business culture and Venky's company decision-making process.

Trying to underpin a local football club in the North west of England with Indian culture ? are you joking?? Go back to the statements they made about preserving Jacks legacy and 'being for the fans'' when they took over. They are the ones who should be seeking to embrace Lancastrian culture given that's where their investment is.

Fawning all over these tosspots is a) not going to work b)not going to happen c) would make the vast majority of our fanbase puke up.

Not a cat in hells chance will this lot agree to dialogue with fan groups-they will chuck the towel in and run for the hills of Pune before lowering themselves to do that

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

It appears they don't want dialogue with anyone outside the club,it would have happened by now if they wanted it,it's as clear as day but why can't some people see this?.

Didn't the two Ian's travel to Pune under their own expense and did not get a meeting.....

[TBTF]

It appears they don't want dialogue with anyone outside the club,it would have happened by now if they wanted it,it's as clear as day but why can't some people see this?.

Didn't the two Ian's travel to Pune under their own expense and did not get a meeting.....

no those two did have a meeting at Venkys house. There has been loads on here about what happened including a podcast if memory serves. Think Kamy can point you in the right direction if you wanted to find it

[den]

If the status quo remains, we'll simply drop through the leagues.

We (supporters) either force them out (will never happen) or work with them.

Regarding a mandate, well there won't be one and has there ever been one?

Whilst some supporters seem to think Venky's are doing ok, anyone with any sense would want :-

a) Venky's out, new wealthy owners in

Venky's out, any owners in

c) Venky's to continue to fund the club but also to work with the supporters as per my previous post. a) and won't happen.

The 'we' could be the Rovers Trust, the Two Ian's or anyone wishing to put themselves forward. Just because Venky's have failed to communicate to date doesn't mean that will always be the case.

As I said, they have already spoken to fans and it made no difference. The two Ian's wrote to them and they weren't interested. The Trust tried to communicate with them and they didn't have the courtesy to reply. I know you're saying keep trying, but it all seems to be a forlorn hope. Then again - what on earth is anyone actually going to say to them? Sack Bowyer? Bring back Williams?

More importantly, how can anyone lucky enough to get an audience, be happy that they represent anyone apart from themselves?

[punerover]

The only way to get an audience with the Venky's is put a 100 million + offer on the table.

[ABBEY]

Go and knock on their door and tell them unkle abbey sent you.

[punerover]

And your idea to get their attention is? Posting Venky's out Venky's out a 1000 times on a messageboard? I completely agree your idea is better.

[Rover_Shaun]

Fook em. Ignorant barstewards. It's their cash they are pushing away. The club WILL endure

[Exiled in Toronto]

Trying to underpin a local football club in the North west of England with Indian culture ? are you joking?? Go back to the statements they made about preserving Jacks legacy and 'being for the fans'' when they took over. They are the ones who should be seeking to embrace Lancastrian culture given that's where their investment is.

Fawning all over these tosspots is a) not going to work b)not going to happen c) would make the vast majority of our fanbase puke up.

Not a cat in hells chance will this lot agree to dialogue with fan groups-they will chuck the towel in and run for the hills of Pune before lowering themselves to do that

Sounds well worth trying to find out then, wouldn't you say?

[den]

A serious answer?

Well they have to be given something that would make them WANT to speak.

Obviously they've seen nothing yet.