[Archived] Is This The Begining Of The End Of The Eu As We Know It

[yoda]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34171161

With Germany saying they expect to take nearly a million refuges/immigrants in who will then have the right to travel within the Shengen zone, is this going to prompt the newer countries to impose restrictions on freedom of movement which is apparently a given and cannot be changed if a country wishes to remain in the EU.

How can Germany possibly know if the influx contains extremists who could wreak havoc once established in European countries.

[Paul]

It's certainly going to be very interesting. It's worth noting some points on this:

The more in depth television reporting makes the point Germany expects to RECEIVE 800,000 asylum applications this year. I imagine a huge number will be accepted but this 800,000 figure isn't quite the same as taking them in.

Germany has a falling birthdate and an ageing population used to a high standard of living. The country is going to need a young workforce and it would appear many of the migrants/refugees are well educated and qualified individuals.

Events of the last few weeks could well have an impact on the Conservative EU referendum.

[yoda]

It's certainly going to be very interesting. It's worth noting some points on this:

The more in depth television reporting makes the point Germany expects to RECEIVE 800,000 asylum applications this year. I imagine a huge number will be accepted but this 800,000 figure isn't quite the same as taking them in.

Germany has a falling birthdate and an ageing population used to a high standard of living. The country is going to need a young workforce and it would appear many of the migrants/refugees are well educated and qualified individuals.

Events of the last few weeks could well have an impact on the Conservative EU referendum.

Think you are correct in that assumption, I am also thinking it will help the out vote.

Is the reason behind Cameron's plan to take refugees direct from the camps in Syria etc to try and combat covert infiltration of extremists in the rest of Europe I wonder.

[Paul]

I'm sure it will help the "out" vote. I also wonder, as I believe Cameron wants to stay "in," if his recent stance is connected with this?

[ultrablue]

Is the reason behind Cameron's plan to take refugees direct from the camps in Syria etc to try and combat covert infiltration of extremists in the rest of Europe I wonder.

More likely that they don't want to suspend the Dublin Regulation as the Germans and the Czechs have.

[yoda]

More likely that they don't want to suspend the Dublin Regulation as the Germans and the Czechs have.

And why should they, it is the rules after all

[Gav]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34171161

With Germany saying they expect to take nearly a million refuges/immigrants in who will then have the right to travel within the Shengen zone, is this going to prompt the newer countries to impose restrictions on freedom of movement which is apparently a given and cannot be changed if a country wishes to remain in the EU.

How can Germany possibly know if the influx contains extremists who could wreak havoc once established in European countries.

Most politicians and political commentators seem to be avoiding this point like the plague.

Cameron is obviously worried, hence the stance that we'll only take refugees from the camps which is a good move for me.

You can't help but be moved by some of the scenes, but its clear a good number of migrants are looking for better lives rather than fleeing persecution in their own country. You can't blame people wanting better lives but we must show a strong arm here, our services are cut to the bone by the Tories, housing is at a premium so can we take a massive influx? I'm not sure we can.

....and don't get me started on places like Kuwait, UAE and India who are more interested in migrant workers to build skyscrapers and sending rickets to the moon with foreign aid budgets, rather than helping their fellow muslims fleeing from danger, its disgusting, Cameron should be putting pressure on these regimes but he won't because of the trade links and oil......

[yoda]

Most politicians and political commentators seem to be avoiding this point like the plague.

Cameron is obviously worried, hence the stance that we'll only take refugees from the camps which is a good move for me.

You can't help but be moved by some of the scenes, but its clear a good number of migrants are looking for better lives rather than fleeing persecution in their own country. You can't blame people wanting better lives but we must show a strong arm here, our services are cut to the bone by the Tories, housing is at a premium so can we take a massive influx? I'm not sure we can.

....and don't get me started on places like Kuwait, UAE and India who are more interested in migrant workers to build skyscrapers and sending rickets to the moon with foreign aid budgets, rather than helping their fellow muslims fleeing from danger, its disgusting, Cameron should be putting pressure on these regimes but he won't because of the trade links and oil......

This says to me that we should not accept anymore refugees at all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

India is not actually a Muslim country by the way but you are correct about it being a country with a space program and also receiving aid, the mind boggles.

Saudi and the other Muslim oil producing countries have more than enough money to solve the problem without breaking into a sweat, money that was mainly received from the west for oil supplied.

[Paul]

This says to me that we should not accept anymore refugees at all

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

.

It also confirms what I posted above re Germany. In the long term there can't be an argument our population is growing too fast, we probably are at maximum now, but in the shorterm a few thousand will not make much difference and it is politically expedient to do so.

[yoda]

Cameron's grudging announcement of 20,000 over five years is embarrassing and a clear attempt to shirk our responsibilities when compared to the numbers arriving in the EU and the efforts of Germany. Contrast the welcome given to migrants to Germany (see below) to the fear and loathing directed at migrants by little Englander racists in this country. .

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/05/migrants-arrive-austria-Germany

A bit uncalled for that JIm, they left Hungary remember who supplied the transport to get them out quickly.

[thenodrog]

It's certainly going to be very interesting. It's worth noting some points on this:

The more in depth television reporting makes the point Germany expects to RECEIVE 800,000 asylum applications this year. I imagine a huge number will be accepted but this 800,000 figure isn't quite the same as taking them in.

Germany has a falling birthdate and an ageing population used to a high standard of living. The country is going to need a young workforce and it would appear many of the migrants/refugees are well educated and qualified individuals.

Events of the last few weeks could well have an impact on the Conservative EU referendum.

Robert Peston was pontificating about this on the BeeB earlier (the entire day on Radio 5 was given over to reports from all the areas most affected by the migrant issue, btw I do believe the BBC is guilty of very biased and over emotive editing.).

If the second most industrious and hard working people on the planet after the Japanese are looking for a work force to replace their own reducing one then the middle East is just about the most stupid place on earth to look. The entire middle east and north africa resembles a second world building site, always has and always will. No idea who built the pyramids but they must have got fed up and walked to Germany soon after. In my experience with animals no one can breed a pedigree out of two mongrels, the Germans would be better served by offering tax break and incentives for their own population to breed.

[thenodrog]

It also confirms what I posted above re Germany. In the long term there can't be an argument our population is growing too fast, we probably are at maximum now, but in the shorterm a few thousand will not make much difference and it is politically expedient to do so.

Growing too fast in the wrong direction. The 'more able' are not replacing themselves whilst the 'less able' are breeding like rabbits. A recipe for national disaster.

Merkel could go down in history as the second most hated German in history after the next almost inevitable major war.

A bit uncalled for that JIm, they left Hungary remember who supplied the transport to get them out quickly.

Dunno where Jims post has gone but he's criticising Cameron for not letting many in when only last week it was announced that the tories under Cameron hadn't kept their promise to cut immigration.

[jim mk2]

As Gordon seems obsessed by racial stereotypes, Teutonic organisation and ambitious, hard working immigrants seems to winning combination to me. I don't why he thinks the Germans and the Japanese are the "most hard working and industrious people on the planert" as the Germans work fewer hours than us. They do have better managers though and worlers are far more productive because they have higher wages. And in what way is the Beeb's reporting "biased" and "over emotive"? This whole issue of immigration is emotive.

Well done to the board's new moderator for deleting my post (if only by mistake as he admitted). If he's going to be that trigger happy this place will get very dull here soon.

[Mike E]

It was hardly a trigger Jim, I was attempting to reply!

[jim mk2]

Perhaps you could reinstate the post ?

To put the migrants issue into perspsective, Germany took in 22,000 migrants last weekend. Cameron is offering to take 20,000 over 5 years. We used to be an open, forward thinking progressive nation. We can do much better than this.

[ABBEY]

jim where are we going to put them? theres massive housing shortages as it is.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

This trickle of 'refugees' is only the start,a potentially dangerous situation developing here.

Mass migration on a worrying scale...Merkel wants to think very carefully with all her Mary Poppins rhetoric.

I notice Obama has gone very quiet on this subject....

[yoda]

As Gordon seems obsessed by racial stereotypes, Teutonic organisation and ambitious, hard working immigrants seems to winning combination to me. I don't why he thinks the Germans and the Japanese are the "most hard working and industrious people on the planert" as the Germans work fewer hours than us. They do have better managers though and worlers are far more productive because they have higher wages. And in what way is the Beeb's reporting "biased" and "over emotive"? This whole issue of immigration is emotive.

Well done to the board's new moderator for deleting my post (if only by mistake as he admitted). If he's going to be that trigger happy this place will get very dull here soon.

If you had worked in industry you would know that, that statement is bullstein

[Baz]

Robert Peston was pontificating about this on the BeeB earlier (the entire day on Radio 5 was given over to reports from all the areas most affected by the migrant issue, btw I do believe the BBC is guilty of very biased and over emotive editing.).

If the second most industrious and hard working people on the planet after the Japanese are looking for a work force to replace their own reducing one then the middle East is just about the most stupid place on earth to look. The entire middle east and north africa resembles a second world building site, always has and always will. No idea who built the pyramids but they must have got fed up and walked to Germany soon after. In my experience with animals no one can breed a pedigree out of two mongrels, the Germans would be better served by offering tax break and incentives for their own population to breed.

Actually Germany has in the past 7 or 8 years been offering scholarships to large numbers of Spanish and Portuguese engineering graduates.

As for the middle east, there is a huge Turkish population in Germany already.

[Mike E]

Perhaps you could reinstate the post ?

To put the migrants issue into perspsective, Germany took in 22,000 migrants last weekend. Cameron is offering to take 20,000 over 5 years. We used to be an open, forward thinking progressive nation. We can do much better than this.

Would if I could but the mobile skin only has delete, whereas the full version says hide.

I assure you I'll be more careful in future and if it's any consolation, your post is still clear and quoted in yoda's. My humble apologies.

[thenodrog]

To put the migrants issue into perspsective, Germany took in 22,000 migrants last weekend. Cameron is offering to take 20,000 over 5 years. We used to be an open, forward thinking progressive nation. We can do much better than this.

Let me add some much more relevant perspective with a simple cut and paste .....

Number of people expected to be living per square kilometre in 2015 - by country

• England - 419
• Holland - 408
• Wales - 258
• Germany - 226
• Italy - 205
• N. Ireland - 130
• Poland - 123
• Portugal - 116
• France - 105
• Romania - 89
• Bulgaria - 66
• Scotland - 40

So there's your answer Jim. We're nearly full! NHS waiting lists are already damning, Mways are absolute hell and I doubt the rail network is any better. To add more numbers to an island nation that if the worst comes to the worst can only feed 50% of it's population is criminal irresponsibility imo. As I keep repeating the lessons of history should never be forgotten. My mantra is head over heart every time.

[jim mk2]

Let me add some much more relevant perspective with a simple cut and paste .....

Those figures are a direct lift from the Daily Mai - and we all know that paper's agenda.

This piece debunks the theory that we are "full" - and shows any "overcrowding" (such as it is) is confined to the south east.

http://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/britain-is-not-qa-small-crowded-islandq

[yoda]

Those figures are a direct lift from the Daily Mai - and we all know that paper's agenda.

This piece debunks the theory that we are "full" - and shows any "overcrowding" (such as it is) is confined to the south east.

http://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/britain-is-not-qa-small-crowded-island

Are you implying that the refugees come north then, not many jobs up here you know, like the saying goes, it's grim up north

[Paul]

it's grim up north

The longer the rest of the country believes that the better. Don't tell them the truth.

😃😃

[Mike E]

Those figures are a direct lift from the Daily Mai - and we all know that paper's agenda.

This piece debunks the theory that we are "full" - and shows any "overcrowding" (such as it is) is confined to the south east.

http://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/britain-is-not-qa-small-crowded-islandq

Try this data then:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.POP.DNST

It shows we are one of the more highly crowded countries in the world, let alone Europe! Will you answer the data of a neutral source?