[Archived] Qpr Away- 16Th Sept

[Parsonblue]

Seen us promoted twice in my lifetime and this team was nowhere near either side. There were also a number of teams who were better than us.

Would totally agree with that. I don't think the present players are as good as those that won the Third Division Championship under Gordon Lee.

[yoda]

Would totally agree with that. I don't think the present players are as good as those that won the Third Division Championship under Gordon Lee.

That would suggest if we get relegated then we won't be coming back up because GB is no Gordon Lee by a long way.

[joey_big_nose]

Getting a bit bored of the 'we lost 3 players' argument.

Cairney was shunted out to the wing, and it became more and more apparent GB didn't really fancy him (wrongly or rightly).

King barely ever played and was miles away from being in GB's plans as a regular starter.

We can't bemoan the loss of King when he was barely being picked anyway. To be honest, I don't particular think he's a huge loss. Lots of pace and an asset off the bench but nothing more.

I think Cairney could have offered more CM (but the money was probably right) and obviously I'll concede Rudy was a big loss.

However, churning out the 'we lost 3 players' argument doesn't really tell the full story and lets GB and the team off the hook to an extent.

Yes. You look at the squad and it is a mid table squad. Not a relegation places squad.

The "losing three players" argument is about adequate for people to adjust their expectations down from playoffs to mid table. But hardly relegation.

What is frustrating is that in the first month of the season we have already made even the vaguest attempt at promotion impossible. People have paid for season tickets and its been thrown out the window, and not through not having good enough players.

Would totally agree with that. I don't think the present players are as good as those that won the Third Division Championship under Gordon Lee.

It's relative though isn't it. Were not playing teams from 30 years ago. We are playing teams in 2015/16. We certainly have a mid table squad compared to those imo.

[Messi422]

They are both pretty average full backs for me. Ollson is better going forward, but Spurr is better defensively and has a long throw.

They do both make mistakes.

You cannot simply drop Olsson after just couples of games, he only played against Wolves and Huddlesfield, Imo he only had responsibility in Huddlesfield where he let an opponent cross easily which lead to a goal. Spurr is terrible both defensively and offensively, he is just too slow and offer absolutely nothing down the left other than his long throw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS9L5wLDy68

At 1:01, Olsson does a overlap with a Marshall and provides a great cross to Rhodes. That is exactly what we need down the left. I haven't seen Spurr does that once this season, simply because he is too slow, he can just put the ball in the box or pass it back. We need someone with pace working with Marshall and providing help against opponent's fast winger.

[Gav]

Getting a bit bored of the 'we lost 3 players' argument.

Cairney was shunted out to the wing, and it became more and more apparent GB didn't really fancy him (wrongly or rightly).

King barely ever played and was miles away from being in GB's plans as a regular starter.

We can't bemoan the loss of King when he was barely being picked anyway. To be honest, I don't particular think he's a huge loss. Lots of pace and an asset off the bench but nothing more.

I think Cairney could have offered more CM (but the money was probably right) and obviously I'll concede Rudy was a big loss.

However, churning out the 'we lost 3 players' argument doesn't really tell the full story and lets GB and the team off the hook to an extent.

Forget King, show pony.

What about Baptiste? Very good player for us.

So Cairney, Gestede and Baptiste, all good players and hard to replace.

To deny it having an impact on the side is short sighted, it's the spine of the team.

Could Boro lose Downing, Friend and Nugent and continue mounting a challenge by replacing them with Guthrie, Delfy and Spurr?

I very much doubt it, so it is a valid point for me although we shouldn't be relegation fodder.

[Parsonblue]

Yes. You look at the squad and it is a mid table squad. Not a relegation places squad.

The "losing three players" argument is about adequate for people to adjust their expectations down from playoffs to mid table. But hardly relegation.

What is frustrating is that in the first month of the season we have already made even the vaguest attempt at promotion impossible. People have paid for season tickets and its been thrown out the window, and not through not having good enough players.

It's relative though isn't it. Were not playing teams from 30 years ago. We are playing teams in 2015/16. We certainly have a mid table squad compared to those imo.

I would agree that it is a mid-table squad at best and that is why I think it is far too early to panic in terms of us being not far off those mid-table spots.

[Speedie Dived]

You cannot simply drop Olsson after just couples of games, he only played against Wolves and Huddlesfield, Imo he only had responsibility in Huddlesfield where he let an opponent cross easily which lead to a goal. Spurr is terrible both defensively and offensively, he is just too slow and offer absolutely nothing down the left other than his long throw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS9L5wLDy68

At 1:01, Olsson does a overlap with a Marshall and provides a great cross to Rhodes. That is exactly what we need down the left. I haven't seen Spurr does that once this season, simply because he is too slow, he can just put the ball in the box or pass it back. We need someone with pace working with Marshall and providing help against opponent's fast winger.

Ollson is without doubt better at getting forward. Noticed in last few home games Spurr has taken a few dead balls, and they weren't too shabby.

Spurr isn't terrible, but I would put Ollson back in now.

[Speedie Dived]

I would agree that it is a mid-table squad at best and that is why I think it is far too early to panic in terms of us being not far off those mid-table spots.

Teams get booed off far too regularly and managers get sacked too quickly nowadays, and I mean across the board in football not particularly us.

If we are in the bottom three around late Oct/Nov then I agree a new search for a manager should happen. I don't mean sack Bowyer but sound managers out if they want to come and they are better than what we have. If there is a good manager out there that wants to come then Bowyer should go.

Knowing us we will sack without having any kind of a replacement in mind.

[Baz]

.

Good point.

[Blue blood]

Don't shoot the messenger fella- you are probably right but tonight they deserved to be cut some slack. GB did nothing wrong tonight, his set up was good they played some great stuff but just didn't put them away. And when you are on a run like we are you get punished.

Clearly we can't go on much longer giving it the unlucky card but I can only comment on what went on tonight and any Rovers fan with an ounce of brain would have applauded them off tonight. Let's be fair guys for once - and I am including me in that!!

Fair enough. And not trying to shoot you whatsoever! Thought you gave some great thoughts on the game.

Point is that every team has these games they should have won and don't. But 1) teams with poor managers have that happen more often than other teams and 2) although all teams have them, for better teams it doesn't massively matter as their general form covers for such anomalies. Both reasons are down to Bowyer imo.

[Blue blood]

Yes. You look at the squad and it is a mid table squad. Not a relegation places squad.

The "losing three players" argument is about adequate for people to adjust their expectations down from playoffs to mid table. But hardly relegation.

What is frustrating is that in the first month of the season we have already made even the vaguest attempt at promotion impossible. People have paid for season tickets and its been thrown out the window, and not through not having good enough players.

It's relative though isn't it. Were not playing teams from 30 years ago. We are playing teams in 2015/16. We certainly have a mid table squad compared to those imo.

Good post. Only thing I'd add about expectations are twofold.

Firstly that a decent manager gets a team exceeding expectations, so in reality, with a good manager we could make a push for playoffs. Think you're spot on though that we're a mid table team. But with correct management - who knows?

Second we need to factor in how guff the rest of the league is. Even in what we've played so far I've seen three weak teams in Hudds, Cardiff and Bolton (how Cardiff are top half is beyond me, but then maybe it was a very bad day at the office against us.) Likewise QPR were all over the shop and should have been beaten. It doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to imagine with a bit more nous and tactical acumen - and being bothered to turn up for more than 45 minutes - that 4 wins is not out of the question. Even with the weakened squad and off-field problems, we could have been doing decently as the quality of this league is very poor indeed imo.

[G Somerset Rover]

I suppose your last point is directly related to those who want the manager gone now. I never felt that we were good enough to go up so am prepared to cut him some slack for the time (End of October/November).

You'd be willing to still cut him some slack if we fail to beat Charlton at home on Saturday? Why?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Forget King, show pony.

What about Baptiste? Very good player for us.

So Cairney, Gestede and Baptiste, all good players and hard to replace.

To deny it having an impact on the side is short sighted, it's the spine of the team.

Could Boro lose Downing, Friend and Nugent and continue mounting a challenge by replacing them with Guthrie, Delfy and Spurr?

I very much doubt it, so it is a valid point for me although we shouldn't be relegation fodder.

How many games did Baptiste play at centre half - how many games did Cairney play well in (last season) ? The only player we genuinely miss from last season (in terms of overall impact) is Gestede.

[joey_big_nose]

I would agree that it is a mid-table squad at best and that is why I think it is far too early to panic in terms of us being not far off those mid-table spots.

I think you and the most of the fan base are a little apart in your expectations.

I think, completely unscientifically, most are expecting mid table but with an outside shot at the playoffs, with absolutely no threat of relegation. Whereas you are expecting mid table with an outside threat of relegation. It's quite a big difference.

My personal view is with this theoretical majority. Most of our first XI would get in top half Championship squads. And we have one of the best strikers in the division. If we got long term injuries to Rhodes (particularly), Conway, Marshall, Hanley, Duffy I would revise my expectations. But with them we certainly should not be anywhere near relegation.

[sambo]

Forget King, show pony.

What about Baptiste? Very good player for us.

So Cairney, Gestede and Baptiste, all good players and hard to replace.

To deny it having an impact on the side is short sighted, it's the spine of the team.

Could Boro lose Downing, Friend and Nugent and continue mounting a challenge by replacing them with Guthrie, Delfy and Spurr?

I very much doubt it, so it is a valid point for me although we shouldn't be relegation fodder.

Seems I completely forgot about Baptiste.

I think we'd be a much stronger team with him at CB now, although GB seemed to prefer him at right back.

[den]

How many games did Baptiste play at centre half - how many games did Cairney play well in (last season) ? The only player we genuinely miss from last season (in terms of overall impact) is Gestede.

We can't really bemoan us losing another teams player - can we?

No, of course not.

[broadsword]

I thought Baptiste was very solid at centre back, i can't understand why he didn't play there more often.

[philipl]

Just watched the QPR and Fulham videos.

Woeful woeful defending for all four goals conceded and also for most of the chances the London sides got gifted and didn't score from.

Sure we are going to win a game or two by 4-3 this season but it is not a game plan to build a relegation fight around....

[joey_big_nose]

Just watched the QPR and Fulham videos.

Woeful woeful defending for all four goals conceded and also for most of the chances the London sides got gifted and didn't score from.

Sure we are going to win a game or two by 4-3 this season but it is not a game plan to build a relegation fight around....

Did you watch the full games or just the highlights? Fulham first half we were defensively very poor, but once we settled into the system it looked defensively much stronger than anything we've played. The midfield bit in the tackle superbly and won the ball back a huge amount in the opposition half. We dominated meaningful possession (QPR and Fulham reduced to doing our formerly favourite thing where the defenders pass to each other under huge pressue then laying off to the GK who hoofed out to touch. Great to be dishing that out for a change) and in chances created.

We were undone at set pieces or directly after the restart which weren't anything to do with the system rather rank bad individual errors.

If we change the system to something more conservative as you suggest it would be a terrible terrible move. We actually looking like a decent team for the first time in months.

The only only thing I would have done differently is taken off Koita at 65 mins against QPR as he was dead on his feet and brought on Lawrence or Delfy to shore up midfield, and give us pace on the break. That maybe could have saved us the three points.

[DE.]

You'd be willing to still cut him some slack if we fail to beat Charlton at home on Saturday? Why?

Keep in mind there were a fair few people backing Kean even after the Bolton debacle. Parson has said he won't call for change until we're cut adrift.

I admire the optimism of these posters, but it will make it harder for them when reality bites.

[LewisF]

Keep in mind there were a fair few people backing Kean even after the Bolton debacle.

Christmas time 2011? Or at the reebok (as it was called then) in 2012? Both were horrific.

[DE.]

Christmas time 2011? Or at the reebok (as it was called then) in 2012? Both were horrific.

The Christmas match. Although I think he even had his supporters in 2012, as some people actually thought he could get us out of trouble.