[Archived] Gary Bowyer

[Iceman]

And we are not Real Madrid. Specifically in what department do you think he is out of his depth? No malice intended, intrigued by your view point.

Seriously pal, do you really want me to answer that? Tactically, organisationally, lack of motivation, lack of charisma. But you know full well that Bowyer is not a manager, and as ive always said, he is nothing more than a youth team coach.

In fact, as a former youth team coach, he certainly doesnt like giving youth much of a chance. I would say though, if he has no confidence in the young players at the club, especially under an embargo, then i think we might as well shut down the academy and save some money.

Speedie, if you were a manager of this team, and certain players were struggling after 20 or 30 mins to make an impact, do you wait until the 70th min to change things, or be brave and make a change after 30 mins? Bowyer tries to play it safe most times, and when we do that, teams hit us because we are negative.

[chris_h]

Seriously pal, do you really want me to answer that? Tactically, organisationally, lack of motivation, lack of charisma. But you know full well that Bowyer is not a manager, and as ive always said, he is nothing more than a youth team coach.

In fact, as a former youth team coach, he certainly doesnt like giving youth much of a chance. I would say though, if he has no confidence in the young players at the club, especially under an embargo, then i think we might as well shut down the academy and save some money.

Speedie, if you were a manager of this team, and certain players were struggling after 20 or 30 mins to make an impact, do you wait until the 70th min to change things, or be brave and make a change after 30 mins? Bowyer tries to play it safe most times, and when we do that, teams hit us because we are negative.

Debuts to Raya, Lenihan, O'Sullivan, Mahoney and Nyambe? Maybe you should get you facts straight if you are go so strident in your views. You have become very outspoken recently despite, like me, not seeing the team play live.

[Speedie Dived]

Seriously pal, do you really want me to answer that? Tactically, organisationally, lack of motivation, lack of charisma. But you know full well that Bowyer is not a manager, and as ive always said, he is nothing more than a youth team coach.

In fact, as a former youth team coach, he certainly doesnt like giving youth much of a chance. I would say though, if he has no confidence in the young players at the club, especially under an embargo, then i think we might as well shut down the academy and save some money.

Speedie, if you were a manager of this team, and certain players were struggling after 20 or 30 mins to make an impact, do you wait until the 70th min to change things, or be brave and make a change after 30 mins? Bowyer tries to play it safe most times, and when we do that, teams hit us because we are negative.

I can see how he could sometimes be accused of being negative tactically and a bit out of sorts defensively, but never once seen a lack of motivation from the players, they are always giving it everything to the end and numerous posters comment on how we have played better in the second half. The charisma thing is irrelevant to me, know a few people who have met him in real life and said he was very funny and good to talk to. What you say/do in front of a camera is 99% irrelevant. Look at everyone's favoutire court jester Holloway, reputation dropping faster than a stone.

Never bought into the Mourinho sub after 30 minutes, it's grand standing and a chance for the manager to divert the attention to himself.

[G Somerset Rover]

'A bit out of sorts defensively'

He's had 24+ months and yet this aspect of our side is as bad as it ever has been. Hardly out of sorts, Speedie.

[DE.]

And we need to play well in both halves ideally, rather than just one

[Iceman]

Debuts to Raya, Lenihan, O'Sullivan, Mahoney and Nyambe? Maybe you should get you facts straight if you are go so strident in your views. You have become very outspoken recently despite, like me, not seeing the team play live.

apart from Raya, how are they doing now in the 1st team Chris?

[chris_h]

'A bit out of sorts defensively'

He hasn't been able to sort our defence in 24+ months! Hardly out of sorts, Speedie.

That can't be argued with. For all the trivia and frippery touted on here about Bowyer his inability to make us difficult to score against is one very tangible issue. I'd love for us to scrap and fight our way to occasional dour goalless draws away at good sides.

A bit like Burnley do.

[Iceman]

I can see how he could sometimes be accused of being negative tactically and a bit out of sorts defensively, but never once seen a lack of motivation from the players, they are always giving it everything to the end and numerous posters comment on how we have played better in the second half. The charisma thing is irrelevant to me, know a few people who have met him in real life and said he was very funny and good to talk to. What you say/do in front of a camera is 99% irrelevant. Look at everyone's favoutire court jester Holloway, reputation dropping faster than a stone.

Never bought into the Mourinho sub after 30 minutes, it's grand standing and a chance for the manager to divert the attention to himself.

never said the players werent motivated, they probably motivating themselves to do well. So if the player is struggling within the 1st 20 to 30 mins, you keep him going until the 70th minute and possibly hurt the teams chances of getting a result? Where as you could have changed it a bit, and then try and positively influence the game? so in front of the camera it aint real life Speedie? Show at least a bit of energy when you are on camera, or smile, or try and raise the spirits, or bloody just say it as you saw it, and admit that we were poor in a game.

[Speedie Dived]

never said the players werent motivated, they probably motivating themselves to do well. So if the player is struggling within the 1st 20 to 30 mins, you keep him going until the 70th minute and possibly hurt the teams chances of getting a result? Where as you could have changed it a bit, and then try and positively influence the game? so in front of the camera it aint real life Speedie? Show at least a bit of energy when you are on camera, or smile, or try and raise the spirits, or bloody just say it as you saw it, and admit that we were poor in a game.

Players are not like that, if a manager loses the dressing room and is not motivating them you can see on the pitch.

Cannot recall one time i would have subbed a player in the first half.

Fergie and Wenger refused to criticise the players/team in public, it could just be a simple case of that.

[Iceman]

Players are not like that, if a manager loses the dressing room and is not motivating them you can see on the pitch.

Cannot recall one time i would have subbed a player in the first half.

Fergie and Wenger refused to criticise the players/team in public, it could just be a simple case of that.

but he is hardly taking responsibility for the poor displays Speedie... fair enough if he doesnt want to publicly blame players, but then who takes responsibility for it? surely the manager and his staff. If people cant see that Bowyer is not a manager, then i dont know anymore. We saw last year, teams with an inferior squad to us, out playing us, because they had a manager who set the team up in way that plays to their strengths, and to our weaknesses. Yet Bowyer did nothing during the match to counter those tactics, and improve our chances to gain a result. He is just not smart enough, and he is being out thought by the opposition

That can't be argued with. For all the trivia and frippery touted on here about Bowyer his inability to make us difficult to score against is one very tangible issue. I'd love for us to scrap and fight our way to occasional dour goalless draws away at good sides.

A bit like Burnley do.

Like what Allardyce did? Because Mrs delusional from Pune, got rid of Big Sam because she wanted to see good football. I dont get that, because she never watches games anyway

[gumboots]

I can see how he could sometimes be accused of being negative tactically and a bit out of sorts defensively, but never once seen a lack of motivation from the players, they are always giving it everything to the end and numerous posters comment on how we have played better in the second half. The charisma thing is irrelevant to me, know a few people who have met him in real life and said he was very funny and good to talk to. What you say/do in front of a camera is 99% irrelevant. Look at everyone's favoutire court jester Holloway, reputation dropping faster than a stone.

Never bought into the Mourinho sub after 30 minutes, it's grand standing and a chance for the manager to divert the attention to himself.

I've been telling people for ages that the bowyer you see when you meet him is very different from the camera bowyer. Not that I've met him but my daughter has a fair few times. Some people just don't like talking to the camera.

[Speedie Dived]

'A bit out of sorts defensively'

He's had 24+ months and yet this aspect of our side is as bad as it ever has been. Hardly out of sorts, Speedie.

Well 12 teams in the division have let more goals in than us and another two are level with us. I think individual mistakes cost us more than the collective unit.

[Speedie Dived]

but he is hardly taking responsibility for the poor displays Speedie... fair enough if he doesnt want to publicly blame players, but then who takes responsibility for it? surely the manager and his staff. If people cant see that Bowyer is not a manager, then i dont know anymore. We saw last year, teams with an inferior squad to us, out playing us, because they had a manager who set the team up in way that plays to their strengths, and to our weaknesses. Yet Bowyer did nothing during the match to counter those tactics, and improve our chances to gain a result. He is just not smart enough, and he is being out thought by the opposition

Don't mean this as an insult but do you go to the games?

I am not saying he is a good or poor manager, but i couldn't agree with any of your points there. I think we finished in the league where i would have expected us to and the year before as well.

[Parsonblue]

I've been telling people for ages that the bowyer you see when you meet him is very different from the camera bowyer. Not that I've met him but my daughter has a fair few times. Some people just don't like talking to the camera.

I think that is a very good point. On the occasions that I've met Gary he comes across completely differently than when he is talking to the media. The players, including many who have left, speak highly of him and clearly respect him. As you say, some people are not comfortable in front of a camera whilst others enjoy it. Ultimately, it doesn't impact on how he does his job on the training ground which is the most important thing.

[chris_h]

apart from Raya, how are they doing now in the 1st team Chris?

Maybe they aren't ready. As they are clearly having their progress blocked by Bowyer perhaps they should move on like O'Connell did. How many games did he get at Brentford before being shipped off on loan to Rochdale Iceman?

[LDRover]

Well 12 teams in the division have let more goals in than us and another two are level with us. I think individual mistakes cost us more than the collective unit.

I totally agree with this point. There were occasions over the past two seasons when you could point at the team formation but this year (even with the much maligned 4-4-2) it's defensive mistakes that have cost us goals.

[Speedie Dived]

I totally agree with this point. There were occasions over the past two seasons when you could point at the team formation but this year (even with the much maligned 4-4-2) it's defensive mistakes that have cost us goals.

Off the top off my head Raya has cost us two goals all on his own and you have the Wolves handball. We are not water tight yet, but i think we are heading in the right direction defensively.*

*Wheels could easily come off at any moment.

[LDRover]

Hanley outpaced and outmuscled at Fulham for the first, no-one picking up the rebound for the 2nd, Duffy failing to clear QPR first, Koita losing his man for the 2nd - that's a few more.

[Amo]

Debuts to Raya, Lenihan, O'Sullivan, Mahoney and Nyambe? Maybe you should get you facts straight if you are go so strident in your views. You have become very outspoken recently despite, like me, not seeing the team play live.

What facts are these, chris?

Lenihan only played because of an injury crisis, never seen again.

Mahoney played two mins against Man City, never seen again.

Nyambe hasn't made a league appearance yet.

Raya's played half-a-dozen games before being hung out to dry.

Hardly makes Bowyer the next Matt Busby, does it?

[chris_h]

What facts are these, chris?

Lenihan only played because of an injury crisis, never seen again.

Mahoney played two mins against Man City, never seen again.

Nyambe hasn't made a league appearance yet.

Raya's played half-a-dozen games before being hung out to dry.

Hardly makes Bowyer the next Matt Busby, does it?

The Facts are that the afore mentioned players were all given their debuts by Gary Bowyer. That is a fact isn't it?

[Amo]

The Facts are that the afore mentioned players were all given their debuts by Gary Bowyer. That is a fact isn't it?

And the comment in question was that the youth isn't given "much of a chance."

Does giving the odd debut to the youngsters qualify as such?

[chris_h]

And the comment in question was that the youth isn't given "much of a chance."

Does giving the odd debut to the youngsters qualify as such?

Five does qualify as an odd number of debuts.

You seem to think these lads have been hard done by suggesting that they are worthy of more appearances. I hope you are right but what do you base that on?

[Iceman]

Five does qualify as an odd number of debuts.

You seem to think these lads have been hard done by suggesting that they are worthy of more appearances. I hope you are right but what do you base that on?

But you make it out, as if they are playing regularly in the 1st team. Apart from Raya, non have been a regular. They were given a chance in pre season, nothing else.

Over the last few season ive seen games obviously not at Ewood, but on tv, and he is a poor manager. Ill stick by that over results and performances since taking charge.

Dont be of those Chris, that thinks only people who attend games know what they are talking about. Ive been in football as a player all my life, ive coached and been a referee. Not at a high level, but i know the game and so do alot of fans. Dont let 1 result against Charlton confuse you about Bowyer.

If he turns things around, ill take my hat off to him, but until then my opinion of him as a maneger remains. As lovely a person as he might be, football is not about being a lovely person.

[chris_h]

But you make it out, as if they are playing regularly in the 1st team. Apart from Raya, non have been a regular. They were given a chance in pre season, nothing else.

Over the last few season ive seen games obviously not at Ewood, but on tv, and he is a poor manager. Ill stick by that over results and performances since taking charge.

Dont be of those Chris, that thinks only people who attend games know what they are talking about. Ive been in football as a player all my life, ive coached and been a referee. Not at a high level, but i know the game and so do alot of fans. Dont let 1 result against Charlton confuse you about Bowyer.

If he turns things around, ill take my hat off to him, but until then my opinion of him as a maneger remains. As lovely a person as he might be, football is not about being a lovely person.

I didn't say that at all, you are making things up now.

I will point out that when Mahoney made his debut he had only just turned 17 and was either the second or third youngest debutant in the club's history. Likewise Nyambe had also not long turned 17 when he debuted.

I'm not confused about Bowyer, I have said for the best part of a year that we need a new manager but have only done so based upon the inability to keep enough clean sheets, put together runs of results or produce consistency. I don't go on about peripheral stuff, jump on other poster's bandwagons or make bogus suggestions about stymying youth development. Nor do I make pronouncements about the manager with the certainty and authority of somebody who sees the teams performances at first hand. No amount of watching games on TV will match seeing them at the ground. Having played a lot of Sunday League football and as the proud holder of an Australian FA youth coaching certificate I can say that with confidence.

[mustard]

Debuts to Raya, Lenihan, O'Sullivan, Mahoney and Nyambe? Maybe you should get you facts straight if you are go so strident in your views. You have become very outspoken recently despite, like me, not seeing the team play live.

Debuting five u21 players in 3 years hardly pays testament to the "he's bringing through youth" myth that's been floating around for a while. Then again, I think Lenihan and O'Sullivan were both over 21 when Bowyer debuted them.

I can kinda understand him not playing Lenihan and O'Sullivan as they would become established players under the embargo. Nyambe got one cup game, Mahoney has had one or two appearances is it? Raya was put in for laughs and then dropped, presumably once his value had crept up by a fiver.

I'm not crying for the youth team to be thrown in, but it would be nice to see a couple of them make appearances off the bench here and there. I'd imagine the five you've mentioned have accrued no more than 12 games between them, mostly sub appearances.

As for Bowyer's situation at the moment, I do find it quite humorous how one win can seemingly make the world of difference. Bowyer's the best thing since sliced bread in some parts despite our record this season still being woeful. I even walked out of Ewood feeling rather positive for a change. I soon remembered one swallow doesn't make a summer.

Consistency is needed, but most importantly consistent points. It's no use picking up sporadic results where we play well one game but switch off the next. Whilst some might have had their expectations dumbed down to thinking 20th place is a good finish, I personally believe we've got a squad more than capable of at least mid-table (we've got Jordan Rhodes ffs!). The fact that Evans has decided to show up after being missing for a couple of years shows we have the quality in the squad, they just haven't been realising it.

EDIT: for the record Chris, my comments RE: Bowyer and sliced bread aren't aimed at you. I've been sitting in the Darwen End (thinking about moving) and there are some morons near me who chant for anything (including chanting to a steward called Gary... honestly, these guys are no hopers). The other week it's "Bowyer, sort it out" and talk about how he's useless. One win later and it's "Gary, give us a wave". Baffling.