[Archived] Gary Bowyer

[Iceman]

I didn't say that at all, you are making things up now.

I will point out that when Mahoney made his debut he had only just turned 17 and was either the second or third youngest debutant in the club's history. Likewise Nyambe had also not long turned 17 when he debuted.

I'm not confused about Bowyer, I have said for the best part of a year that we need a new manager but have only done so based upon the inability to keep enough clean sheets, put together runs of results or produce consistency. I don't go on about peripheral stuff, jump on other poster's bandwagons or make bogus suggestions about stymying youth development. Nor do I make pronouncements about the manager with the certainty and authority of somebody who sees the teams performances at first hand. No amount of watching games on TV will match seeing them at the ground. Having played a lot of Sunday League football and as the proud holder of an Australian FA youth coaching certificate I can say that with confidence.

Did Mahoney make his debut under Bowyer, cant remember? so watching them live in a game is different to watching on tv? what part is different Chris? eg on tv Lowe makes a sideways pass, or a backwards pass to the keeper. Im sure live he does the same thing. or Hanley loses his player, when he should have picked him up, does that not happen live while at the ground? or one of the players just stands there, doesnt track back, and then we get punished for it, again, does that not happen?

You only have to look even at the highlights of our games, and see the manner in which the opposition score or how we concede, and think, who should address that issue at the next game. But, next game, and its the same error, same mistake from the same players, but they still get picked. do i have to be at the ground Chris, to notice, how every week a different team is selected whereby there is no consistency.

also what am making up? the fact that you asking me if i attend games, knowing full well im thosands of miles away? 1 win says nothing right now, but certain fans are looking away from the previous results and performances, not just this season, but previous ones under Bowyer as well

[Stuart]

I think that is a very good point. On the occasions that I've met Gary he comes across completely differently than when he is talking to the media. The players, including many who have left, speak highly of him and clearly respect him. As you say, some people are not comfortable in front of a camera whilst others enjoy it. Ultimately, it doesn't impact on how he does his job on the training ground which is the most important thing.

The most important thing is not what happens on the training ground.

Such a statement is the refuge of a struggling coach-turned-manager.

[gumboots]

What statement, Stuart? It's just a fact that the public Bowyer in front of the camera and the relaxed Bowyer taking training or doing other things in the environment of the football club are 2 very different people. Whether that makes him good enough to remain as Rovers manager is a different question, and my answer to that would be no.

[A cup of beans]

On the ' sacking poll' - GB's support has almost doubled since Saturday (admittedly measley so), on the basis of one good result.

Fans get a bad rap for being 'fickle', so I wont accuse them of that. Maybe they were just waiting for GB to mastermind a win, before adding their vote.

[Parsonblue]

The most important thing is not what happens on the training ground.

Such a statement is the refuge of a struggling coach-turned-manager.

Working on the training ground far more important than TV interviews - which is what we were discussing.

[K-Hod]

TV Interviews let's be honest, are a crock of dung anyway.

[Speedie Dived]

Dont let 1 result against Charlton confuse you about Bowyer.

Nobody is judging it off one game, he has won 40 odd other games as well.

The most important thing is not what happens on the training ground.

It's a pretty important thing though.

[Iceman]

Working on the training ground far more important than TV interviews - which is what we were discussing.

so its time he improves his tv interviews, because the training ground stuff is not working

[chaddyrovers]

Edit

[Iceman]

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/lists/160118/top-30-classically-pithy-brian-clough-quotes.html

Love this, what a manager..

[Pedro]

Debuts to Raya, Lenihan, O'Sullivan, Mahoney and Nyambe? Maybe you should get you facts straight if you are go so strident in your views. You have become very outspoken recently despite, like me, not seeing the team play live.

In support of the other guy, when did he blood those players in the league and how many has he subsequently dropped? How many has he persevered with in the same vein he will persevere with a square peg in a round hole?

I think it is a fair criticism that Bowyer has been woeful at promoting youth in favour of ticking over with the effortless bunch - especially when we were crying out for passion. He has put the buddy bunch in the starting eleven (out of position) rather than blood youth when it was obvious what needed doing (how long did he overlook Henley last season?) The players listed above playing in an end of season match against Ipswich won't cover the facts and failings for me.

[Blue blood]

Nobody is judging it off one game, he has won 40 odd other games as well.

It's a pretty important thing though.

But how many has he lost? Drawn? Should have won (I can think of a lot in that category.)

Btw under Souness on our way to promotion, league cup and 6th training was apparently lots of 5 a side games. Food for thought...

[OJRovers]

Don't mean this as an insult but do you go to the games?

I am not saying he is a good or poor manager, but i couldn't agree with any of your points there. I think we finished in the league where i would have expected us to and the year before as well.

Was it 13 points off the play-offs last season with both Rudy Gestede and JordanRhodes scoring 45 goals? Doubt many in the game would see that as a fair outcome. Josh King and Tom Cairney misused all season too. Baptiste not played in his best position either.

[Iceman]

Nobody is judging it off one game, he has won 40 odd other games as well.

It's a pretty important thing though.

I never said anything about the training ground, think that was Stuart. No idea why his commemt shows up under my name.

[chaddyrovers]

Josh King misused? Wasnt he out injured for some time last season.

[blueboy3333]

Was it 13 points off the play-offs last season with both Rudy Gestede and JordanRhodes scoring 45 goals? Doubt many in the game would see that as a fair outcome. Josh King and Tom Cairney misused all season too. Baptiste not played in his best position either.

Bowyer did superbly well to turn a non-scoring forward cast aside by Cardiff, into a £6m goal-machine.

cairney is playing in exactly the same position for fulham as he did at Rovers. King was never fit, and still isn't.

13 points off the play-offs is a good effort when you have Willowe as your central midfield pairing. Guthrie and a revitalised Evans look much better. We're less than 13 points off the play-offs now so point proven

[donnermeat]

Course he was misused, there were times last season when the team was crying out for pace, especially against tired defences. He's no world beater by any stretch but his pace does make things happen sometimes rather by luck than design. In fact I noticed he would get to the 60 or 70 minute mark and wouldn't even bother to carry on warming up anymore! Presumably because he knew that if a sub was going to be made it would be Brown or Willow. That's misused.

[Speedie Dived]

But how many has he lost? Drawn? Should have won (I can think of a lot in that category.)

Btw under Souness on our way to promotion, league cup and 6th training was apparently lots of 5 a side games. Food for thought...

His win record is around 37% i think. The reason that i brought up his wins was in reply to someone saying we were judging him off one win, which nobody is.

Dalglish was similar to Souness in that respect to training. I think there would be blue murder now if Bowyer revolved training around 5 a side games, the game has moved on massively since then.

[Mattyblue]

Dalglish was similar to Souness in that respect to training. I think there would be blue murder now if Bowyer revolved training around 5 a side games, the game has moved on massively since then.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it that they often finished with 5 a side that Kenny would play in, with Ray Harford running the training sessions?

[Speedie Dived]

Was it 13 points off the play-offs last season with both Rudy Gestede and JordanRhodes scoring 45 goals? Doubt many in the game would see that as a fair outcome. Josh King and Tom Cairney misused all season too. Baptiste not played in his best position either.

Personally don't think we were good enough for the play offs last year, but we were probably 5-10 points light from where we could have been.

King had more than enough chances here and was not good enough. Cairney could not play in the middle of the park, very good on the ball but you could easily run through him. Interestingly Evan's form has picked up since he has a solid partner alongside him in the middle of the park.

I would argue that the owners should have had the intelligence to spot an embargo on the way last year and had a gamble with a bit of extra cash. If we could have added some real quality in 1/2 positions then i think we could have got to the play offs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it that they often finished with 5 a side that Kenny would play in, with Ray Harford running the training sessions?

Yeah i think that's correct. The only time Kenny got involved with training was during the 5 aside. Myself and a few friends once snook into Brockhall to watch a training session, it was brilliant to see the players close up (hiding in a bush). Didn't see any 5 aside just shooting and free kick practice, Witschge copped a large amount of stick off Shearer.

[gumboots]

Only training session I went to at Brockhall, so unless was off somewhere and Tony parked and Dean Saunders were doing it. Greek had just arrived and trying to get him t understand what to do was a bit hard for the coaches to put it mildly

[Athlete]

Was it 13 points off the play-offs last season with both Rudy Gestede and JordanRhodes scoring 45 goals? Doubt many in the game would see that as a fair outcome. Josh King and Tom Cairney misused all season too. Baptiste not played in his best position either.

Speaking to fans of other local clubs and they're all of the opinion that with the squad riches of last season Rovers should of walked the division but too finish so far behind the play offs tells it's own story... GB isn't good enough

[chaddyrovers]

Speaking to fans of other local clubs and they're all of the opinion that with the squad riches of last season Rovers should of walked the division but too finish so far behind the play offs tells it's own story... GB isn't good enough

Tbh, we did under acheived last season but no way should we have walked this league but should have got top 6 place

IMO, Derby should have walked it considering the number of PL loans they had. Ince, Lingard, Ibe and Bent. And they finished outside the top 6 btw

After what Derby spent this summer they should be walking the league this season. Didnt they not just spend 26 million this summer?

[K-Hod]

Derby are paying for doing what we're doing, and not appointing the right man in the dugout. If Clement doesn't get that squad promoted he must be a complete plum.

McLaren seemingly had his head turned by Newcastle half way through the season and they badly fell off.

That being said, surely as a manager, if you've a 40 goal strikeforce, and you're leaking goals, you'd look at fixing the leak? As in our case. Sadly, we just kept letting in late goals and making daft errors which cost us. We were in the top 6 for about 2 hours all season, then got stage fright seemingly.

[JHRover]

At the end of the day we finished 9th, which most agree was probably an underachievement, but at the same time was far from a disastrous season. Some clubs with theoretically weaker squads, like Ipswich and Brentford, performed better than we did, whilst others with arguably stronger squads, like Forest and Wolves, performed similarly or worse than we did.

A disastrous season last year would have seen us fighting relegation or even 'doing a Wigan' and plummeting into League One. We didn't do that. We were top half all season, and spent nearly all the time between 7th and 11th (which in itself demonstrates consistency in the most inconsistent of leagues).

I'm in the camp that the squad should have done significantly better last season. I believe the squad was capable of a top 6 finish. That didn't happen, the owners have decided to keep Bowyer in position despite that.

In terms of Josh King, I don't think he was misused at all. His entire 3 years with Rovers was summed up by a continual absence due to niggling injuries. The games he did play in the League he delivered very little in terms of goals, attempts or assists. People are allowing their views on him to be determined by his 2 performances in the Cup and the fact that Bournemouth have signed him, not the other countless appearances where he did nothing.

I reckon King will finish his career aged 30 with about 150 games and 15 goals under his belt. That's just the type of player he is. He's not reliable enough and not the sort we should be building a team around.

The fact that Cairney isn't being used in Fulham's central midfield again shows that he can't play there on a regular basis and the only/best position for him is on the right hand side. Yet for some reason we didn't target him in our game last week despite knowing the problems of playing him on the right.

There's no point moaning at Bowyer now for what he did or didn't do last season. The issue at stake now is our current position and results and whether they are acceptable. Things are looking better after 2 decent results and 2 1/2 good performances. Players like Rhodes, Evans, Guthrie and even Marshall appear finally to be hitting the form they are capable of. That needs to continue and we need to keep climbing this division. Reverting back to type at Hull this weekend will immediately see big pressure back on Bowyer, because regardless of what happened in 2014-15, 1 win from 9 league games isn't good enough for anyone, and certainly not this team/club.