[Archived] Gary Bowyer

[Blue blood]

And that comment sums up what is wrong with this site. There are many legitimate reasons why another change of manager would be disastrous for the club. Yet stand by the manager and you're dismissed as a troll or a Burnley fan?

You only need to look around at other clubs or at our own history to see that sacking the manager isn't a quick fix that suddenly brings better results. It can work, but often clubs make the move just because it's something they can do, even though it doesn't address what's really wrong. I genuinely think Gary Bowyer is doing a decent job as our manager, and whilst in theory we could do better, we could do much, much worse. He took over a team that was in a complete mess and struggling to stay in this division, overhauled the squad and got us back up towards the top end of the division. If he'd been allowed to tweak the squad in the way we're all used to, then maybe we'd have continued on an upward trajectory.

But the rules have changed. We've been restricted on what we can spend, had our hand forced into selling some of our better performers. Furthermore, we've been handicapped by a punishment that affects our competitiveness in this division. We don't have the same ability to deal with injuries, suspensions, drops in form and tired legs as the front-runners, we can't try to improve our squad with fresh signings. It would be seriously deluded to think we should be pushing for promotion this season, staying mid-table will be tough. The league have given us the embargo to make things difficult for us, that's the point of it.

With that in mind, I don't think Bowyer is doing a bad job, certainly not so poorly to warrant the sack. Sure, fans will disagree with some of his decisions, but that will be the case with whoever is in charge. No one is perfect, but the critics who always think they know best have little experience of putting it into practice. We've won more than we've lost under him, and I see that as a positive. And I realise the challenge has been made harder, and I can't imagine there will be a queue of top managers waiting to take over. New managers tend to want to do things their way, and recruit their own players. Anyone coming here will be restricted to the current squad, and face high expectations. I don't think the manager is the source of all our problems, even those with glittering reputations would find it difficult to improve under these conditions, if one was prepared to take the chance. I think it's more likely that a new man would struggle like Berg and Appleton did. And as a Rovers fan (not a troll or a Dingle), that's something I'd rather avoid.

You're right there's no need for saying someone of a different opinion is a Burnley fan. bit childish imo.

However I totally disagree with you that Bowyer isn't doing a bad job. Two pathetic attempts at promotion (where he was comfortably outside the top 6) no planning for an embargo that was obviously coming, 3 wins in 15 this season, league cup embarrassment after embarrassment, over 2 years to stop tinkering with the team on a regular basis, 25 + players brought in. Can't see how in light of all that he's not doing a bad job.

Also every game I've seen this season the opposition have been poor to rank bad. Our situation might be harder, but promotion is far from unattainable given how appalling most teams in this division are. A good manager - i.e. not Bowyer - would've capitalised on this.

[mustard]

And that comment sums up what is wrong with this site. There are many legitimate reasons why another change of manager would be disastrous for the club. Yet stand by the manager and you're dismissed as a troll or a Burnley fan?

You only need to look around at other clubs or at our own history to see that sacking the manager isn't a quick fix that suddenly brings better results. It can work, but often clubs make the move just because it's something they can do, even though it doesn't address what's really wrong. I genuinely think Gary Bowyer is doing a decent job as our manager, and whilst in theory we could do better, we could do much, much worse. He took over a team that was in a complete mess and struggling to stay in this division, overhauled the squad and got us back up towards the top end of the division. If he'd been allowed to tweak the squad in the way we're all used to, then maybe we'd have continued on an upward trajectory.

But the rules have changed. We've been restricted on what we can spend, had our hand forced into selling some of our better performers. Furthermore, we've been handicapped by a punishment that affects our competitiveness in this division. We don't have the same ability to deal with injuries, suspensions, drops in form and tired legs as the front-runners, we can't try to improve our squad with fresh signings. It would be seriously deluded to think we should be pushing for promotion this season, staying mid-table will be tough. The league have given us the embargo to make things difficult for us, that's the point of it.

With that in mind, I don't think Bowyer is doing a bad job, certainly not so poorly to warrant the sack. Sure, fans will disagree with some of his decisions, but that will be the case with whoever is in charge. No one is perfect, but the critics who always think they know best have little experience of putting it into practice. We've won more than we've lost under him, and I see that as a positive. And I realise the challenge has been made harder, and I can't imagine there will be a queue of top managers waiting to take over. New managers tend to want to do things their way, and recruit their own players. Anyone coming here will be restricted to the current squad, and face high expectations. I don't think the manager is the source of all our problems, even those with glittering reputations would find it difficult to improve under these conditions, if one was prepared to take the chance. I think it's more likely that a new man would struggle like Berg and Appleton did. And as a Rovers fan (not a troll or a Dingle), that's something I'd rather avoid.

I think you underestimate the gravity of our situation. I don't blame you for this as there's a distinct minority of fans are oblivious to the direction we are heading. We have a crippling amount of debt, we have Premier League facilities that are unsustainable for a team in the Championship, the squad assembled is an expensive one by Championship standards, particularly our wage budget which is no doubt top 10 at least. Without promotion, the future of our club is in jeopardy. Simple as that.

Do you think Bowyer can ever achieve promotion with BRFC? Never mind this season, I mean ever? If so, what gives you this impression? He failed pre-embargo when he was able to spend as he wished, so is there any indication he will be able to mastermind a promotion bid in the future? If you need held finding an answer, look at the league tables for the last few years (pay close attention to this season in particular). This fear of appointing worse will get us nowhere and hanging onto Gaz, hoping he'll become a talented manager, is damaging the club. I think you're naive if you think that other managers wouldn't have been able/be able to do better. IMO Bowyer has assembled a talented team, yet has been unable to bring out the best in this squad of internationals and ex-Prem players, with our crown jewel Rhodes the envy of most Champ managers. We played terrible, backwards, hoofball last season and the season before, coupled with a woeful defensive record, yet still managed to finish top half. Now, did Gaz engineer this, or did the team perform in spite of Bowyer and his tactics?

Look at Ipswich and Birmingham. Squad-wise, they are very poor, with only a few players between both that would get a look-in at Rovers. Since the appointments of McCarthy and Rowett, both have outperformed Rovers in the league. Prime examples of how a talented manager can have a group of limited individuals collectively exceed their capabilities. One of your final points was how we've won more than we've lost. I'm not sure how this is a stat to laud him by, but continue as we are this season and you won't have this to cling onto (win% 34 and loss% 33 at the moment I think). You might be happy treading water in the Championship, but doing so is costing BRFC millions of pounds and is damaging the club. Unfortunately, promotion is the only way out of this mess and so nice guy Gaz is now part of the problem.

[yoda]

And that comment sums up what is wrong with this site. There are many legitimate reasons why another change of manager would be disastrous for the club. Yet stand by the manager and you're dismissed as a troll or a Burnley fan?

You only need to look around at other clubs or at our own history to see that sacking the manager isn't a quick fix that suddenly brings better results. It can work, but often clubs make the move just because it's something they can do, even though it doesn't address what's really wrong. I genuinely think Gary Bowyer is doing a decent job as our manager, and whilst in theory we could do better, we could do much, much worse. He took over a team that was in a complete mess and struggling to stay in this division, overhauled the squad and got us back up towards the top end of the division. If he'd been allowed to tweak the squad in the way we're all used to, then maybe we'd have continued on an upward trajectory.

But the rules have changed. We've been restricted on what we can spend, had our hand forced into selling some of our better performers. Furthermore, we've been handicapped by a punishment that affects our competitiveness in this division. We don't have the same ability to deal with injuries, suspensions, drops in form and tired legs as the front-runners, we can't try to improve our squad with fresh signings. It would be seriously deluded to think we should be pushing for promotion this season, staying mid-table will be tough. The league have given us the embargo to make things difficult for us, that's the point of it.

With that in mind, I don't think Bowyer is doing a bad job, certainly not so poorly to warrant the sack. Sure, fans will disagree with some of his decisions, but that will be the case with whoever is in charge. No one is perfect, but the critics who always think they know best have little experience of putting it into practice. We've won more than we've lost under him, and I see that as a positive. And I realise the challenge has been made harder, and I can't imagine there will be a queue of top managers waiting to take over. New managers tend to want to do things their way, and recruit their own players. Anyone coming here will be restricted to the current squad, and face high expectations. I don't think the manager is the source of all our problems, even those with glittering reputations would find it difficult to improve under these conditions, if one was prepared to take the chance. I think it's more likely that a new man would struggle like Berg and Appleton did. And as a Rovers fan (not a troll or a Dingle), that's something I'd rather avoid.

Maybe a bit unkind calling them Dingle trolls,

How about Ostriches ?

[chor808]

Table from the web....http://www.managerstats.co.uk/championship/

Does not make good reading if you love him or hate him. Take away the bottom four as they are sacked or new. Is that is good enough after nearly three years?

Name Club W D L Total Win Ratio

Lee Carsley Brentford 4 0 2 6 66.67

Carlos Carvalhal Sheffield Wednesday 10 5 3 18 55.56

Aitor Karanka Middlesbrough 55 23 27 105 52.38

Kenny Jackett Wolverhampton Wanderers 60 30 27 117 51.28

Steve Cotterill Bristol City 51 30 22 103 49.51

Simon Grayson Preston North End 71 50 29 150 47.33

Gary Rowett Birmingham City 24 13 14 51 47.06

Paul Clement Derby County 7 6 2 15 46.67

Karl Robinson Milton Keynes Dons 134 64 94 292 45.89

Mick McCarthy Ipswich Town 61 43 47 151 40.4

Sean Dyche Burnley 55 43 43 141 39.01

Steve Bruce Hull City 61 35 63 159 38.36

Chris Hughton Brighton and Hove Albion 15 12 13 40 37.5

Steve Clarke Reading 18 13 17 48 37.5

Russell Slade Cardiff City 19 17 17 53 35.85

Kit Symons Fulham 22 17 23 62 35.48

Gary Bowyer Blackburn Rovers 44 44 37 125 35.2

Dougie Freedman Nottingham Forest 10 9 14 33 30.3

Chris Ramsey Queens Park Rangers 9 6 16 31 29.03

Neil Lennon Bolton Wanderers 14 18 20 52 26.92

Chris Powell Huddersfield Town 15 19 22 56 26.79

Karel Fraeye Charlton Athletic 0 0 1 1 0

Steve Evans Leeds United 0 2 1 3 0

Neil Redfearn Rotherham United 0 1 3 4 0

[mustard]

Table from the web....http://www.managerstats.co.uk/championship/

Does not make good reading if you love him or hate him. Take away the bottom four as they are sacked or new. Is that is good enough after nearly three years?

Name Club W D L Total Win Ratio

Lee Carsley Brentford 4 0 2 6 66.67

Carlos Carvalhal Sheffield Wednesday 10 5 3 18 55.56

Aitor Karanka Middlesbrough 55 23 27 105 52.38

Kenny Jackett Wolverhampton Wanderers 60 30 27 117 51.28

Steve Cotterill Bristol City 51 30 22 103 49.51

Simon Grayson Preston North End 71 50 29 150 47.33

Gary Rowett Birmingham City 24 13 14 51 47.06

Paul Clement Derby County 7 6 2 15 46.67

Karl Robinson Milton Keynes Dons 134 64 94 292 45.89

Mick McCarthy Ipswich Town 61 43 47 151 40.4

Sean Dyche Burnley 55 43 43 141 39.01

Steve Bruce Hull City 61 35 63 159 38.36

Chris Hughton Brighton and Hove Albion 15 12 13 40 37.5

Steve Clarke Reading 18 13 17 48 37.5

Russell Slade Cardiff City 19 17 17 53 35.85

Kit Symons Fulham 22 17 23 62 35.48

Gary Bowyer Blackburn Rovers 44 44 37 125 35.2

Dougie Freedman Nottingham Forest 10 9 14 33 30.3

Chris Ramsey Queens Park Rangers 9 6 16 31 29.03

Neil Lennon Bolton Wanderers 14 18 20 52 26.92

Chris Powell Huddersfield Town 15 19 22 56 26.79

Karel Fraeye Charlton Athletic 0 0 1 1 0

Steve Evans Leeds United 0 2 1 3 0

Neil Redfearn Rotherham United 0 1 3 4 0

Thanks for the stats. Worth noting a couple of them include spells in other leagues, with the promoted managers having slightly boosted records from that. Dyche still ahead of Bowyer despite a spell in the Prem. Some poor managers both below and above Gaz there.

[booth]

With that in mind, I don't think Bowyer is doing a bad job, certainly not so poorly to warrant the sack. Sure, fans will disagree with some of his decisions, but that will be the case with whoever is in charge. No one is perfect, but the critics who always think they know best have little experience of putting it into practice. We've won more than we've lost under him, and I see that as a positive. And I realise the challenge has been made harder, and I can't imagine there will be a queue of top managers waiting to take over. New managers tend to want to do things their way, and recruit their own players. Anyone coming here will be restricted to the current squad, and face high expectations. I don't think the manager is the source of all our problems, even those with glittering reputations would find it difficult to improve under these conditions, if one was prepared to take the chance. I think it's more likely that a new man would struggle like Berg and Appleton did. And as a Rovers fan (not a troll or a Dingle), that's something I'd rather avoid.

He is though. At any other club he'd be gone.

If promotion is the goal of the owners (as stated by the managing director) then he should have been gone some time ago. Can you see any other promotion chasing club giving him this amount of time, and year after year getting gradually worse league positions? Especially last year with two top strikers in his squad.

[OJRovers]

He is though. At any other club he'd be gone.

If promotion is the goal of the owners (as stated by the managing director) then he should have been gone some time ago. Can you see any other promotion chasing club giving him this amount of time, and year after year getting gradually worse league positions? Especially last year with two top strikers in his squad.

Yes, under normal circumstances he would've been sacked last season. We finished miles off the play-offs, with the 2 best strikers in the league, with a wage budget easily in the top 6 in the division.

[G Somerset Rover]

Kamy (if you're reading), I've seen you say on Twitter several times that there's been a "push" to remove Gaz, but as is always the case, Mrs D ultimately has the final say and has held firm. Can we surmise that the people behind the push have been the brothers? Or are there people within the corridors of Ewood who are actively trying to remove him (Venky's man on the ground, perhaps)?

[AllRoverAsia]

Is Bowyer just cheap? anyone know what he's on.

[mustard]

Is Bowyer just cheap? anyone know what he's on.

I have no doubt he's making a good few hundred grand a year from Rovers.

Football manager tends to be pretty accurate when it comes to these things (as I'm sure they use official figures/databases) and the newest one sees Bowyer earning £8k a week. I imagine it would be thereabouts or higher. So just a measly £400k a year before tax...

[AllRoverAsia]

I have no doubt he's making a good few hundred grand a year from Rovers.

Football manager tends to be pretty accurate when it comes to these things (as I'm sure they use official figures/databases) and the newest one sees Bowyer earning £8k a week. I imagine it would be thereabouts or higher. So just a measly £400k a year before tax...

Bloody hell - plus job security

[chaddyrovers]

From Raphael Gellar. A football journo in Israel.

Been hearing a lot about Slavisa Jokanovic rumors to Blackburn. My opinion, not going to happen.

Jokanovic has built a great resume with several achievements. He is likely to go to EPL club or Championship club on verge of promotion.

[chor808]

From Raphael Gellar. A football journo in Israel.

Been hearing a lot about Slavisa Jokanovic rumors to Blackburn. My opinion, not going to happen.

Jokanovic has built a great resume with several achievements. He is likely to go to EPL club or Championship club on verge of promotion.

Thanks for the bad news Chaddy

[DE.]

Kamy (if you're reading), I've seen you say on Twitter several times that there's been a "push" to remove Gaz, but as is always the case, Mrs D ultimately has the final say and has held firm. Can we surmise that the people behind the push have been the brothers? Or are there people within the corridors of Ewood who are actively trying to remove him (Venky's man on the ground, perhaps)?

We heard this many, many times when Kean was manager too. It always ultimately came to nothing.

[JBiz]

However I totally disagree with you that Bowyer isn't doing a bad job. Two pathetic attempts at promotion (where he was comfortably outside the top 6) no planning for an embargo that was obviously coming, 3 wins in 15 this season, league cup embarrassment after embarrassment, over 2 years to stop tinkering with the team on a regular basis, 25 + players brought in. Can't see how in light of all that he's not doing a bad job.

.

But you're ignoring what RTP said - it could be a hell of a lot worse.

I know it's sentiment wasted on many here, and those that reply will likely stick the boot in at a complete lack of expectation.

I could list 10 things GB could've done a lot better and many would agree, but look at Wigan if you think we could've only done better!

[Amo]

But you're ignoring what RTP said - it could be a hell of a lot worse.

That should be the club's new motto.

[JBiz]

That should be the club's new motto.

Keep your sarcastic stuff out of discussion please. Nothing to add, then say nothing.

[yoda]

That should be the club's new motto.

Keep your sarcastic stuff out of discussion please. Nothing to add, then say nothing.

The clubs/town's motto is fine

The current management how ever is not good enough for Blackburn Rovers

[chor808]

But you're ignoring what RTP said - it could be a hell of a lot worse.

I know it's sentiment wasted on many here, and those that reply will likely stick the boot in at a complete lack of expectation.

I could list 10 things GB could've done a lot better and many would agree, but look at Wigan if you think we could've only done better!

I don't think many would disagree that he did a good job to start with and must have helped get rid of some of the expensive deadwood. Last season really was a failure with the squad we had and this season has started worse.

Putting aside his daft comments this week, the frustration comes from us not 'pushing on' or 'kick starting'. At other clubs he would have gone by now, yes it could have been worse but we should look at what we do from here. He just does not come across as a motivator to drag the last inch out of the squad and it appears there is no pressure from above either. I'm not even sure what is the aim for this season? Did anyone make a statement?

No input from the owners or communication, weak board, average manager and good squad. Where is the problem?

[Stuart]

L

Table from the web....http://www.managerstats.co.uk/championship/

Does not make good reading if you love him or hate him. Take away the bottom four as they are sacked or new. Is that is good enough after nearly three years?

Name Club W D L Total Win Ratio

Lee Carsley Brentford 4 0 2 6 66.67

Carlos Carvalhal Sheffield Wednesday 10 5 3 18 55.56

Aitor Karanka Middlesbrough 55 23 27 105 52.38

Kenny Jackett Wolverhampton Wanderers 60 30 27 117 51.28

Steve Cotterill Bristol City 51 30 22 103 49.51

Simon Grayson Preston North End 71 50 29 150 47.33

Gary Rowett Birmingham City 24 13 14 51 47.06

Paul Clement Derby County 7 6 2 15 46.67

Karl Robinson Milton Keynes Dons 134 64 94 292 45.89

Mick McCarthy Ipswich Town 61 43 47 151 40.4

Sean Dyche Burnley 55 43 43 141 39.01

Steve Bruce Hull City 61 35 63 159 38.36

Chris Hughton Brighton and Hove Albion 15 12 13 40 37.5

Steve Clarke Reading 18 13 17 48 37.5

Russell Slade Cardiff City 19 17 17 53 35.85

Kit Symons Fulham 22 17 23 62 35.48

Gary Bowyer Blackburn Rovers 44 44 37 125 35.2

Dougie Freedman Nottingham Forest 10 9 14 33 30.3

Chris Ramsey Queens Park Rangers 9 6 16 31 29.03

Neil Lennon Bolton Wanderers 14 18 20 52 26.92

Chris Powell Huddersfield Town 15 19 22 56 26.79

Karel Fraeye Charlton Athletic 0 0 1 1 0

Steve Evans Leeds United 0 2 1 3 0

Neil Redfearn Rotherham United 0 1 3 4 0

I'm on my phone or I'd do it myself but is there any way you could sort that in the order of the league table? Might be interesting.

[davulsukur]

I'm on my phone or I'd do it myself but is there any way you could sort that in the order of the league table? Might be interesting.

As requested Stuart:

Steve Bruce Hull City 61 35 63 159 38.36

Sean Dyche Burnley 55 43 43 141 39.01

Chris Hughton Brighton and Hove Albion 15 12 13 40 37.5

Aitor Karanka Middlesbrough 55 23 27 105 52.38

Paul Clement Derby County 7 6 2 15 46.67

Gary Rowett Birmingham City 24 13 14 51 47.06

Steve Clarke Reading 18 13 17 48 37.5

Carlos Carvalhal Sheffield Wednesday 10 5 3 18 55.56

Russell Slade Cardiff City 19 17 17 53 35.85

Mick McCarthy Ipswich Town 61 43 47 151 40.4

Kit Symons Fulham 22 17 23 62 35.48

Lee Carsley Brentford 4 0 2 6 66.67

Chris Ramsey Queens Park Rangers 9 6 16 31 29.03

Kenny Jackett Wolverhampton Wanderers 60 30 27 117 51.28

Gary Bowyer Blackburn Rovers 44 44 37 125 35.2

Simon Grayson Preston North End 71 50 29 150 47.33

Steve Evans Leeds United 0 2 1 3 0

Chris Powell Huddersfield Town 15 19 22 56 26.79

Dougie Freedman Nottingham Forest 10 9 14 33 30.3

Karl Robinson Milton Keynes Dons 134 64 94 292 45.89

Steve Cotterill Bristol City 51 30 22 103 49.51

Neil Lennon Bolton Wanderers 14 18 20 52 26.92

Karel Fraeye Charlton Athletic 0 0 1 1 0

Neil Redfearn Rotherham United 0 1 3 4 0

[chor808]

As requested Stuart:

Steve Bruce Hull City 61 35 63 159 38.36

Sean Dyche Burnley 55 43 43 141 39.01

Chris Hughton Brighton and Hove Albion 15 12 13 40 37.5

Aitor Karanka Middlesbrough 55 23 27 105 52.38

Paul Clement Derby County 7 6 2 15 46.67

Gary Rowett Birmingham City 24 13 14 51 47.06

Steve Clarke Reading 18 13 17 48 37.5

Carlos Carvalhal Sheffield Wednesday 10 5 3 18 55.56

Russell Slade Cardiff City 19 17 17 53 35.85

Mick McCarthy Ipswich Town 61 43 47 151 40.4

Kit Symons Fulham 22 17 23 62 35.48

Lee Carsley Brentford 4 0 2 6 66.67

Chris Ramsey Queens Park Rangers 9 6 16 31 29.03

Kenny Jackett Wolverhampton Wanderers 60 30 27 117 51.28

Gary Bowyer Blackburn Rovers 44 44 37 125 35.2

Simon Grayson Preston North End 71 50 29 150 47.33

Steve Evans Leeds United 0 2 1 3 0

Chris Powell Huddersfield Town 15 19 22 56 26.79

Dougie Freedman Nottingham Forest 10 9 14 33 30.3

Karl Robinson Milton Keynes Dons 134 64 94 292 45.89

Steve Cotterill Bristol City 51 30 22 103 49.51

Neil Lennon Bolton Wanderers 14 18 20 52 26.92

Karel Fraeye Charlton Athletic 0 0 1 1 0

Neil Redfearn Rotherham United 0 1 3 4 0

Thanks I just wasted 5 mins :-)

[davulsukur]

Thanks I just wasted 5 mins :-)

Always happy to help (or hinder in this case)

In reality i just wanted to kill the last 5 mins of work off.

[chor808]

Always happy to help (or hinder in this case)

In reality i just wanted to kill the last 5 mins of work off.

What is interesting is you have to come down to 13th before anyone is lower than GB. Mid table manager?

[roverandout]

I don't think it's based on win ratio but current league position