[Archived] Gary Bowyer

[Reedy You're A Star]

Isn't it the Chief Scout we've got at the minute that actually unearths the talent? Admittedly GB, as manager, then has to sign it off, but I doubt the manager has a great deal to do with the actual finding of talent. Or is that completely wrong?

[tomphil]

Isn't it the Chief Scout we've got at the minute that actually unearths the talent? Admittedly GB, as manager, then has to sign it off, but I doubt the manager has a great deal to do with the actual finding of talent. Or is that completely wrong?

Don't go blowing his cover

Anyway whether he does or not the main probs come when we have actually signed them and he doesn't really know what to do with them.

[Athlete]

As I have said previously at present Gary Bowyer is not fearful that he is about to lose his job despite what is being reported by some journos.

The main reason for this is that he retains the support of Mrs Desai. I am sure that the chuckle brothers would look to sack him and the people who advise them may have sounded out other managers, but the fact remains that they will never ever take on their sister, so while she says Gary stays then he will stay.

I think that the reason he retains her support is all down to him being the first manager in Venky's reign to generate a profit on money invested, this is a model that will appeal to her, as long as Rovers don't get relegated then I expect that she will be happy to let GB carry on as long as he continues to find hidden gems, develop them and generate a profit. The success of Tom Lawrence (even though he is not our player) will reinforce Gary's position with Mrs Desai hence why he has been lauding Lawrence's performances over the last few weeks.

The chuckle brothers won't take on their sister what a load of cobblers... Sounds like smokescreens for whatever

Even if she likes Gary for turning a player profit it doesn't explain the logic with the club losing millions

To me, this viewpoint only carries weight if you ignore the gigantic losses.....(Unless I'm going mad, which isn't completely unfeasible!)

Totally agree Kamys viewpoint isn't logical with the gigantic losses

Again too many questions and not enough answers

The only way we'll ever move forward again is when Venky's FO and the 3 Stooges as well

[DE.]

I would guess it's a case of making less in losses rather than none at all or profits due to sales.

Admittedly, the actual impact of player sales must be very slim in comparison with our yearly outgoings - arguably so much so that it isn't even relevant.

[Kamy100]

The chuckle brothers won't take on their sister what a load of cobblers... Sounds like smokescreens for whatever

Even if she likes Gary for turning a player profit it doesn't explain the logic with the club losing millions

Totally agree Kamys viewpoint isn't logical with the gigantic losses

Again too many questions and not enough answers

The only way we'll ever move forward again is when Venky's FO and the 3 Stooges as well

The point is that by using profits from sale of players to finance the club it means Venky's have to put less into the club to finance the losses.

As we saw with Kean her brothers did not take her on when she blindly refused to sack him, you have to understand they are a very tight knit family and they are quite unusual in terms of Indian society and culture in that most big business is male dominated but for Venky's everything goes via Mrs D, her brothers will never go against her and undermine her authority.

I am not making excuses from Venky's they are the worst thing to happen to Rovers in my lifetime and the best solution is that they leave.

[tomphil]

We better try and enjoy this season because I would think it's going to get worse before, if ever, it gets better. Next seasons season ticket marketing line might be 'the strive to stay' in the championship.

[chor808]

The point is that by using profits from sale of players to finance the club it means Venky's have to put less into the club to finance the losses.

As we saw with Kean her brothers did not take her on when she blindly refused to sack him, you have to understand they are a very tight knit family and they are quite unusual in terms of Indian society and culture in that most big business is male dominated but for Venky's everything goes via Mrs D, her brothers will never go against her and undermine her authority.

I am not making excuses from Venky's they are the worst thing to happen to Rovers in my lifetime and the best solution is that they leave.

Just a quick google search give you the profits for the VH Group (I think this is it all) of about 202 Crore which is 20 million GBP I think. We seem to be blowing that each year! Artical here for reference.

http://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/cover-story/most-powerful-women-in-india-business-2015-anuradha-desai/story/223465.html

[AllRoverAsia]

In all of this chaos I find it odd that the all dominating FS hasn't cottoned on to the fact that their are huge riches available in the PL, or doesn't she know. That possibility would make sense of being happy with Monotone and small profits to offset large losses. Or is she simple pig thick.

[arbitro]

It just doesn't make any sense at all. If, as speculated they will reassess their position next May surely there would be a real push for promotion with a real leader at the helm. What they have made in profit by selling players in Bowyers tenure is chicken feed compared to the riches promotion would bring. And this particular well is now nearly dry as only Marshall of the present bunch would give them a significant return on their initial outlay. We can't buy any players so we are stuck with what we have. The real big bucks would come from promoting Academy players and them doing well but Bowyer has publicly stated he won't be doing this.

These horrible people deserve all that is coming their way and I really hope it costs them millions. That may well be the only crumb of comfort we can take when we are traveling to Dagenham and Redbridge on a cold Tuesday in the depths of winter.

[AllRoverAsia]

The same stuff has been attributed to Marshall when playing at right back basically putting him in the shop window.

Very recently Boring was saying that Marshall was the only player in the World who can play RB, RW, LW, No 10 and in goal if he wanted. Cretin.

[martonrover]

It certainly explains why Bowyer is so content to draw games.

The bar is set very low for him in terms of what's statistically acceptable, ( staying up ), which is why he in turn sets the bar so low for the players.

This is no longer Blackburn Rovers, it's merely a parasite infested carcass.

Not getting a penny more off me after this season.

[windymiller7]

I said I'd give him another couple of games and I did, I actually gave him 3. 1 Win & 2 draws. In isolation, the 4 points on the road against Leeds & Brum weren't too bad, however, what I witnessed with my own eyes on Saturday, told me everything I needed to know, that nothing had changed.

When we attacked Brentford they where sh!t scared of us, really edgy at the back, rushed poor clearances etc, however having done this for a 10 minute spell in the first half and again for another 5 in the 2nd, that was it, revert back to sideways, backwards, sideways, forward a little, sideways, backwards, backwards, Steele, hoof!

Delfy On? Eh?

Here we go again!

No, sorry Gary, you're sell-by date is up. Time for the bin before you leave a lingering stale smell.

Hey, Mrs D - I've had this really mad idea, you know how we've been buying players and them selling them on for a couple of million in profit? I know this way where we can turn a few hundred grand into about £120m! We might have to promise someone a couple of mill out of that for achieving that but, lets say £5m as a worst case. That's still £115m in the coffers! What do you reckon? Or we can sell Ben Marshall and make about £500k?

I'll tell you what, I'll even keep my gob shut & you can tell everyone it was your idea!

[Amo]

The point is that by using profits from sale of players to finance the club it means Venky's have to put less into the club to finance the losses.

Except that player profits are comparatively negligible to the overall running costs of the club. Bowyer isn't going to be able to keep pulling Gestedes out of the hat, especially with FFP restricting trade. This isn't a viable business strategy.

[JBiz]

I

Hey, Mrs D - I've had this really mad idea, you know how we've been buying players and them selling them on for a couple of million in profit? I know this way where we can turn a few hundred grand into about £120m! We might have to promise someone a couple of mill out of that for achieving that but, lets say £5m as a worst case. That's still £115m in the coffers! What do you reckon? Or we can sell Ben Marshall and make about £500k?

I'll tell you what, I'll even keep my gob shut & you can tell everyone it was your idea!

Just ask Derby and Forest fans about how easy it is to guarantee promotion.

[mustard]

Just ask Derby and Forest fans about how easy it is to guarantee promotion.

Jbizzle, the bottom line is we would have a better chance of promotion if we actually appointed someone with suitable credentials.

I'm not sure how even you can contest this.

[JBiz]

Jbizzle, the bottom line is we would have a better chance of promotion if we actually appointed someone with suitable credentials.

I'm not sure how even you can contest this.

I'm not contesting it would be better, I'm contesting a post basically written as if our situation is an easy fix. Something completely lost on you it would seem.

[mustard]

I'm not contesting it would be better, I'm contesting a post basically written as if our situation is an easy fix. Something completely lost on you it would seem.

I know you love a good bicker on here JB but put your claws away, please.

Everyone knows it isn't an easy fix! However, the idea of surviving from nominal profits made on player turnover which don't even put a dent on our annual losses is ludicrous.

Change is needed for the survival of BRFC. We are only heading in one direction under Bowyer and I'd rather gamble on a manager that at least has the potential to deliver what we need, even at the risk of failure, than see us die a slightly slower death with him at the helm.

[JBiz]

I know you love a good bicker on here JB but put your claws away, please.

Everyone knows it isn't an easy fix! However, the idea of surviving from nominal profits made on player turnover which don't even put a dent on our annual losses is ludicrous.

Change is needed for the survival of BRFC. We are only heading in one direction under Bowyer and I'd rather gamble on a manager that at least has the potential to deliver what we need, even at the risk of failure, than see us die a slightly slower death with him at the helm.

The irony of saying I love a good bicker! Is that not essentially intended to wind me up? I'm not responding to it.

Point is mustard- this view you've held for 12 months or more is blinkered in the extreme IMO. Whilst this may be the worst we've been for 30 years- it's completely foolish to ignore how easily it can get worse. It's also easily to ignore how it happened.

The most likely scenario when GB leaves is he is replaced by another over promoted coach. Why is this FACT so easily ignored? We've not see anyone hired with experience, and the likelihood of the "advisors" finding one with potential to bring back premier league in a season on a shoe string?

I wouldn't bet on it, but keep on believing that the be a realistic option under this ownership!

Please don't misunderstand me, if I was Chairman - GB would never have been boss. Much like the current u21 team, I'd rather see these players or coaches succeed in first teams as players and managers at lower level before taking the reigns higher up.

I'd never have sacked Sam either. We've had umpteen opportunities to get an experienced or potential manager (which takes experts to spot ie Hughes, Dyche, Neil) but the mere fact we've ignored all says we will ignore more.

[mustard]

The irony of saying I love a good bicker! Is that not essentially intended to wind me up? I'm not responding to it.

Point is mustard- this view you've held for 12 months or more is blinkered in the extreme IMO. Whilst this may be the worst we've been for 30 years- it's completely foolish to ignore how easily it can get worse. It's also easily to ignore how it happened.

The most likely scenario when GB leaves is he is replaced by another over promoted coach. Why is this FACT so easily ignored? We've not see anyone hired with experience, and the likelihood of the "advisors" finding one with potential to bring back premier league in a season on a shoe string?

I wouldn't bet on it, but keep on believing that the be a realistic option under this ownership!

Please don't misunderstand me, if I was Chairman - GB would never have been boss. Much like the current u21 team, I'd rather see these players or coaches succeed in first teams as players and managers at lower level before taking the reigns higher up.

I'd never have sacked Sam either. We've had umpteen opportunities to get an experienced or potential manager (which takes experts to spot ie Hughes, Dyche, Neil) but the mere fact we've ignored all says we will ignore more.

In the interim between Kean and Bowyer, we did appoint two managers. Poor managers, but managers nonetheless.

So what do we do then? Stick with Bowyer until Venky's leave? Or until he decides to leave? And then hope we aren't in an even worse position than we are now? Your plan is as lacking in foresight as mine is.

Perhaps my view of sacking Bowyer is short-sighted or blinkered. However, your suggestion that we persevere with Bowyer simply because we might well appoint worse makes you just as guilty as me.

Yes, it could get a hell of a lot worse than it is now under a new manager. It could also get a hell of a lot worse under Bowyer. Results have shown it's getting worse. No guarantees that he has what it takes to carry us along throughout this transition until our owners are sane enough to appoint someone decent.

I understand we are sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place but I feel waiting for Venky's to clear off before attempting to appoint a manager who might change our fortunes for the better is just as blinkered as me suggesting we sack him tomorrow.

[RevidgeBlue]

Mustard nailed it above. The argument that we might appoint a hell of a lot worse than GB no longer holds much water as results are getting steadily worse under him therefore there is nothing to give any confidence that things won't get a lot worse under him either.

[Paul]

While I can see the point put by those who say Kamy's view on generating profits doesn't make financial sense there is an extension to this from Mrs D's view.

Currently we lose around £25m pa. A promotion drive is, IMO, going to cost at least another £25m plus wages. That would be a manager, manager's promotion bonus, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees etc. That's going to cost at least £25m and run the risk of being stuck with an expensive squad if the bid fails.

Mrs D may well be thinking of two alternatives:

£25m loss less player sales

OR

£25m loss plus £25m promotion costs plus increased wage bill for 2-3 years.

If the second option were to fail mid-table mediocrity plus a few bob from player sales must look quite attractive.

The Raos aren't stupid (we have to be realistic) someone will have crunched the numbers.

[Amo]

The Raos aren't stupid

Run that one by me again?

[JHRover]

While I can see the point put by those who say Kamy's view on generating profits doesn't make financial sense there is an extension to this from Mrs D's view.

Currently we lose around £25m pa. A promotion drive is, IMO, going to cost at least another £25m plus wages. That would be a manager, manager's promotion bonus, transfer fees, signing on fees, agents fees etc. That's going to cost at least £25m and run the risk of being stuck with an expensive squad if the bid fails.

Mrs D may well be thinking of two alternatives:

£25m loss less player sales

OR

£25m loss plus £25m promotion costs plus increased wage bill for 2-3 years.

If the second option were to fail mid-table mediocrity plus a few bob from player sales must look quite attractive.

The Raos aren't stupid (we have to be realistic) someone will have crunched the numbers.

But then there's the third option - invest some money, although not necessarily the £25 million you suggest, and if you are confident in your manager then achieve promotion. Even if you don't invest after that, the value of promotion and future parachute payments would singlehandedly cover the money they have lost the last 3 years. If they managed to find a way to survive, difficult but not impossible, then the value of the club and their investment would rocket. Then there's the benefits promotion would bring to their reputation and brand image. Suddenly Venkys become well known as the people who took the club back up to where they found it and their name is rehabilitated in the eyes of many.

It's called speculating to accumulate. Taking a risk with eyes on the mega prize at the end. That's why all these other clubs around us spend money to try and get promoted.

The theory that any businesswoman could be remotely content with a 'plan' that involves losing £20 million per year but celebrating a few million in player sales from time to time is beyond belief. If she is content with losing such amounts and has no interest in promotion then why on earth does she want to keep the club? Why not just cut her losses and leave?

So Mrs Desai has no understanding of football, never goes to games, yet is quite happy to survive in the Championship in exchange for £20 million+ losses a year? Why? What's the point?

[tomphil]

Just ask Derby and Forest fans about how easy it is to guarantee promotion.

Over the past few years they do keep having a go at it though and that's another point in itself. It's clear they strive to get there, you can't say the same about us even before the embargo gave them excuses.

As with Boro both those clubs had financial problems to cope with and all 3 had a gaffer who got stability for them for a few seasons then they made changes and attempted to move forwards.

Very recently Boring was saying that Marshall was the only player in the World who can play RB, RW, LW, No 10 and in goal if he wanted. Cretin.

Aye and he trots it out every time he's played there and we haven't been beaten. For me Sat was the first real time he's had a good game playing there and he wasn't up against a really troublesome winger either. Even so most of his eye catching stuff was done when he was moved to the wing.

[DE.]

The Raos aren't stupid (we have to be realistic) someone will have crunched the numbers.

They may not be stupid in general, but when it comes to the business of football calling them stupid would be kind. It's going to take more than crunching numbers to sort this mess out.