[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[Stuart]

Ah, here we go a Jordan Rhodes thread!!

A summary.

"Some say he can do no wrong, that he's the reason why we're in this division, that his goals kept us up, and in fact he's possibly one of the greatest strikers....

.... In the world."

Sorry about that, I just did it in a Jeremy Clarkson stylee.

Whilst others say he's no pace, can't hold the ball up, can't play with other strikers, has little to his game, and even that he's lazy and can't be arsed!

But he'll get you 20 goals a season. Which is great. But it really is a conundrum. 14m and out of the embargo - two new strikers in that may or better - bringing say 30 goals, creating more for others? Or footballing lunacy getting rid of a consistent goal scorer? Glad it's not my choice!

All of that is academic perhaps as Lambert has said he's key to his plans.

However in true BRFCC style lets get into one of two camps. There's no room for middle ground on here!

If we COULD sell him for £14m - possible given some of the stupid money being thrown around in the PL just now - AND buy two players like a Glenn Murray or a Shaun Maloney or a James Vardy then great, I'm sold. But if we can't then I'd be looking to get a couple of other contributors to support and complement him. Last season we had Gestede who ended up being a bit of a hidden gem and we managed to get TWO 20+ strikers, so he can work on his own or with a partner. But as Gav said in the other thread, in a better side, he could be an even better player. Imagine if he was getting the kind of service that previous Rovers strikers have enjoyed. A Ripley, Wilcox, Bentley, MGP, etc teeing up the goals. At the moment, we've got Conway and that's about it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Ah, here we go a Jordan Rhodes thread!!

A summary.

"Some say he can do no wrong, that he's the reason why we're in this division, that his goals kept us up, and in fact he's possibly one of the greatest strikers....

.... In the world."

Sorry about that, I just did it in a Jeremy Clarkson stylee.

Whilst others say he's no pace, can't hold the ball up, can't play with other strikers, has little to his game, and even that he's lazy and can't be arsed!

But he'll get you 20 goals a season. Which is great. But it really is a conundrum. 14m and out of the embargo - two new strikers in that may or better - bringing say 30 goals, creating more for others? Or footballing lunacy getting rid of a consistent goal scorer? Glad it's not my choice!

All of that is academic perhaps as Lambert has said he's key to his plans.

However in true BRFCC style lets get into one of two camps. There's no room for middle ground on here!

Pretty good summing up of the situation. Let's see what Lambert does in the future, he's paid to run the team his way.

[den]

Ah, here we go a Jordan Rhodes thread!!

A summary.

"Some say he can do no wrong, that he's the reason why we're in this division, that his goals kept us up, and in fact he's possibly one of the greatest strikers....

.... In the world."

Sorry about that, I just did it in a Jeremy Clarkson stylee.

Whilst others say he's no pace, can't hold the ball up, can't play with other strikers, has little to his game, and even that he's lazy and can't be arsed!

But he'll get you 20 goals a season. Which is great. But it really is a conundrum. 14m and out of the embargo - two new strikers in that may or better - bringing say 30 goals, creating more for others? Or footballing lunacy getting rid of a consistent goal scorer? Glad it's not my choice!

All of that is academic perhaps as Lambert has said he's key to his plans.

However in true BRFCC style lets get into one of two camps. There's no room for middle ground on here!

It's a shame this has been resurrected in some ways Bob. I guess my post in the preston thread started it off (again) jeez! We need a new way of playing. This sideways, slow, slow, boring, going nowhere garbage that we've been watching, was only taking us one way. We need to change. Trouble is that might not suit some of our players. Well tough, if they can't do it, they'll have to go - whoever they are.

[SoldierMo]

He scored the winner AGAIN

[JAL]

Are some posters disrespecting Paul Lambert when he stated that Jordan Rhodes will be a key player for him.

[Ewooduknow]

Are some posters disrespecting Paul Lambert when he stated that Jordan Rhodes will be a key player for him.

Sceptical of his reasons for saying it maybe..

[garnersfags]

Put this in Preston thread but should be here....

In response to those claiming otherwise, Rhodes 'does' create chances for himself.

Rhodes very rarely receives a direct pass from our midfield around the edge, or in, the box.

When he does receive, or win, the ball he rarely gives it away.

His chance to goal ratio is better than more or less any Championship striker.

He does run the channels but is rarely found due to our lack of creative midfielders. Dunny regularly looked to play incisive balls direct or 'round the corner' to him and let him decide whether to lay it off, turn a defender or shoot.

He will undoubtedly benefit from a 2nd regular strike partner.

I repeat, he does not give the ball away (that doesn't include long balls in the air to him which only Gestede types are happy with).

For a striker who rarely sees the ball his record is supreme. No Bowyer side has made it a priority to get the ball to his feet, if Lambert chooses to do this, he will score 30 goals a season.

We need a creative midfielder who can thread incisive balls through to the best front man in the divsion.

[bob fleming]

Pretty good summing up of the situation. Let's see what Lambert does in the future, he's paid to run the team his way.

Absolutely bang on. The decision over Rhodes was always going to be a biggie - for whoever was in charge. At the moment though there's no decision to make. However, as den alludes to, if on closer inspection / a few games down the line PL decides that the personnel at his disposal aren't the right pieces of his jigsaw...

Not that I'm advocating anything of the sort - just stating that it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

And we've been here before don't forget when we sold another massive crowd favourite in Ashley Ward, sorry, no, not him, I meant David Speedie, and bought Alan Fox & Hounds Road. Unthinkable at the time. Madness even. But you've got to let the manager do what he thinks is best for the team.

It's a shame this has been resurrected in some ways Bob. I guess my post in the preston thread started it off (again) jeez! We need a new way of playing. This sideways, slow, slow, boring, going nowhere garbage that we've been watching, was only taking us one way. We need to change. Trouble is that might not suit some of our players. Well tough, if they can't do it, they'll have to go - whoever they are.

[RevidgeBlue]

No conundrum whatsoever as far as I can see Bob, Rhodes is top quality, at least at this level. He never stops running and play the ball into his feet and he lays it off well. The midfield has been rubbish for years now. Not sure how this is Rhodes fault.

Hope Lambert sees it the same way but as you say he will do what he thinks best.

[philipl]

Too many people not seeing a top class forward when he is right in front of them.

Yes he can improve but if we have players who can improve threading the ball into a channel for him close to goal or somewhere he can roll his defender then he will top the scoring charts in this division by some distance.

I'd take Rhodes over the forwards of at least 50% of the clubs in the Premier League.

[Speedie Dived]

Put this in Preston thread but should be here....

In response to those claiming otherwise, Rhodes 'does' create chances for himself.

Rhodes very rarely receives a direct pass from our midfield around the edge, or in, the box.

When he does receive, or win, the ball he rarely gives it away.

His chance to goal ratio is better than more or less any Championship striker.

He does run the channels but is rarely found due to our lack of creative midfielders. Dunny regularly looked to play incisive balls direct or 'round the corner' to him and let him decide whether to lay it off, turn a defender or shoot.

He will undoubtedly benefit from a 2nd regular strike partner.

I repeat, he does not give the ball away (that doesn't include long balls in the air to him which only Gestede types are happy with).

For a striker who rarely sees the ball his record is supreme. No Bowyer side has made it a priority to get the ball to his feet, if Lambert chooses to do this, he will score 30 goals a season.

We need a creative midfielder who can thread incisive balls through to the best front man in the divsion.

There is a local of generalising in there. I have seen 99% of his games played at home and a handful of away games, he doesn't have the pace to run the channels. It's not a slight on him, it's a fact you can see after watching him over years.

If he rarely received a direct pass in and around the box how does he score so many? He doesn't create his own chances.

The best point to sum it up is the point made about us selling Speedie, considered madness at the time. I can see why we would keep him and i could see why we would sell him, but Lambert made reference to him being his Holt/Bentekke. He will quickly find out he is not like them at all.

Too many people not seeing a top class forward when he is right in front of them.

Yes he can improve but if we have players who can improve threading the ball into a channel for him close to goal or somewhere he can roll his defender then he will top the scoring charts in this division by some distance.

I'd take Rhodes over the forwards of at least 50% of the clubs in the Premier League.

He is a top class goal scorer. Not a top class all round forward.

[ABBEY]

During my break some things have not changed especially saxo wind ups.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

On average there tends to be 6-7 strikers in the Championship each season who score 20 or more. Assuming each club plays 2 strikers at least semi-regularly, that's 6-7 out of 50 in the league. So the chance of getting rid of Rhodes and then managing to bring in someone who can replace his goals is pretty slim.

The argument sometimes then is that we could buy 2 strikers to replace his goals. But if you need 2 strikers to match Rhodes, it means we lose 1 man in midfield, which basically means we're poorer defensively. If we bring in 2 strikers then between them they need to score more than Rhodes to make up for the fact that we're gonna concede more.

As with a lot of comments after Preston, I think there needs to be a massive reality check. For the last 2 seasons we've been a mid-table Championship side, with bottom half attendances (relegation zone attendances when you consider our tickets are cheaper), we have a massive debt for our annual revenue and are under big financial restrictions in terms of what we can pay players. Rhodes is too good for us, not the other way round, so why on earth should we want to sell him.

[old darwen blue]

During my break some things have not changed especially saxo wind ups.

Glad it's not just me that's spotted that pal.

[RevidgeBlue]

On average there tends to be 6-7 strikers in the Championship each season who score 20 or more. Assuming each club plays 2 strikers at least semi-regularly, that's 6-7 out of 50 in the league. So the chance of getting rid of Rhodes and then managing to bring in someone who can replace his goals is pretty slim.

The argument sometimes then is that we could buy 2 strikers to replace his goals. But if you need 2 strikers to match Rhodes, it means we lose 1 man in midfield, which basically means we're poorer defensively. If we bring in 2 strikers then between them they need to score more than Rhodes to make up for the fact that we're gonna concede more.

As with a lot of comments after Preston, I think there needs to be a massive reality check. For the last 2 seasons we've been a mid-table Championship side, with bottom half attendances (relegation zone attendances when you consider our tickets are cheaper), we have a massive debt for our annual revenue and are under big financial restrictions in terms of what we can pay players. Rhodes is too good for us, not the other way round, so why on earth should we want to sell him.

Very good post. The first paragraph nails it for me. Considering how bad we've been on the pitch since the V's took over we've actually been blessed with some superb strikers, Yakubu, Gestede and Rhodes. So much so that I think many posters now fall into the trap of thinking that regular 20 goal a season strikers grow on trees whereas in reality they're as rare as hen's teeth.

If Rhodes was sold and replaced with one or two cheaper options the statistical likeliehood is that he would be replaced by players who would fail to impress rather than two who would simply carry on where he left off. If only Jim Smith had been able to call on a player like Rhodes many years ago instead of having to rely on an over the hill John Radford. Or Howard Kendall when we agonisingly missed out on back to back promotions. Or Bob Saxton. Or Don Mackay. Or even Brian Kidd.

Yes, we've had one or two better players during the Premiership years, but we've even then still had many worse. Rhodes or Martin Dahlin anyone? Rhodes or Ashley Ward? Rhodes or Franny Jeffers? Rhodes or Benjani? As SKH says, he's too good for us really, it defies all logic really that we went down then the V's splashed out 8m and 30k p.w. rising on him. He hasn't disappointed since with his goal return, it beats me why he gets any criticism at all in those circumstances, we should be thanking our lucky stars we have him and I hope he is persuaded to stick around long enough to see what can be done with him in the side and for the first time a decent manager in the dug out,

[Ewooduknow]

He is a class finisher, there's no dispute about that.

[garnersfags]

There is a local of generalising in there. I have seen 99% of his games played at home and a handful of away games, he doesn't have the pace to run the channels. It's not a slight on him, it's a fact you can see after watching him over years.

If he rarely received a direct pass in and around the box how does he score so many? He doesn't create his own.

Whilst I can see the argument about his speed restricting his channel-running, I can't accept the implication that he gets loads of decent quality service from midfield.

He doesn't.

And I think the vast majority would agree that the service to him is lacking in frequency and quality.

He scores so many goals purely because he converts 30% of his paucity of chances. Not because he is well fed.

We do not see the best of Rhodes. Fact.

If and when we do, these discussions will be non-existent.

[Speedie Dived]

Whilst I can see the argument about his speed restricting his channel-running, I can't accept the implication that he gets loads of decent quality service from midfield.

He doesn't.

And I think the vast majority would agree that the service to him is lacking in frequency abd quality.

He scores so many goals purely because he converts 30% of his paucity of chances. Not because he is well fed.

We do not see the best of Rhodes. Fact.

If and when we do, these discussions will be non-existent.

I agree the service into the channels can be poor at best from the full backs. That is one area that's needs addressing, could help Rhodes improve in that area.

[garnersfags]

What I will say is that when the pressure is taken off him by giving him a strike partner, he looks a better all round player.

I would give Koita 15 games with him before we'll know if it really works.

Don't think Lambert will be brave or foolish enough to go with that but my money would be on that front 2 doing the business which will allow us to spend the money on a top creative midfielder and a right back.

Simple.

[Blue blood]

To me part of the problem of late is that non one else up front is even a credible option.

Koita's touch and fitness let him down (although perhaps it's still early days), Lawrence isn't an out and out striker, less said about Brown the better. Whoops forgot about Delfonso - busy but ineffective.

Problem is every other team have one or two strikers who if not as good as the main one could still cause problems, especially in the top half of the table. Having just done the Wednesday match preview it brought this home to me. The lad who got a cap for Portugal in the international break was on the bench for them in their last game (but then came on and scored two). Most teams to be successful need at least a couple semi-regular goal threats. we've got one.

This means Rhodes cannot afford to have a bad game, even more than ever before you consider his wages etc. because there is no one who can make a fraction of the impact or threat he does. Likewise whilst Rhodes isn't pacy or powerful no one really can come in and do those things massively better than he can. Perhaps Koita physically but until his fitness improves I'm not sure he's a solution. The problem is up front there's plan A, which is quite specific with Rhodes and no one who can do either plan A if Rhodes is having an off day or plan B either.

Perhaps the biggest problem Bowyer left us with is that he left us with an inadequate set of replacement strikers for King, Dunn and Gestede. Granted it was going to be hard in the embargo, but surely we could and should still have done better than be left with the options we have been,

[47er]

There is never going to be a conclusion to this debate. He is the best striker we have and we need more and of quality.

If he goes and is replaced by someone better or at least as good, I won't complain but is seems unlikely at present.

Worth pointing out though that the fact that he takes all the penalties makes his end of season total look better than it is.

"Scored the winning goal for us again" is a bit over the top when it isn't from open play.

He never misses but the vast majority of pens go In no matter who takes them.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just on Rhodes Charlie Austin was interviewed on Talk Sport a few weeks back and was asked what he hated most as a striker. He replied other members of the side failing to clear the first man from crosses or dead ball situations and playing as a lone striker with no-one within 30 or 40 yards of you.

Couldn't help thinking at the time that was how Rhodes must have felt playing under Bowyer. Hopefully Lambert can improve us in those respects particularly getting other players in and around and beyond Rhodes.

[BlooBoy]

People seem to have short memories.

Rhodes and Gestede scored 40 ? goals last season. When Gestede was sold many were crying where the hell are we going to get the 20 goals lost through the sale of him. And now to sell Rhodes seems like a good idea?

Im not naive enough to realise that a player will replace Rhodes,but its a big ask for someone to step in and score from the off and sore regularly.

Yes, money could then be available to strengthen the side and in some ways its a catch 22 situation but surely to lose another twenty goal striker is a bloody big risk.

[blueboy3333]

I suppose if we got £10-14m for Rhodes and it could be reinvested in the team then selling might be worth considering...but it's a massive risk. He doesn't do a lot in games sometimes but he's there to score goals, which he does very well. Football is littered with strikers who have 1 or 2 great seasons where they bang them in for fun and then never repeat it. Rhodes gets you 20+ every season. Personally i think he's gone off the boil a bit over the last 12 montha and has been been missing chances he would normally take. Hopefully the new manager will help restore his confidence a bit.

As someone else said it's all about getting players closer to Rhodes so he's not as isloated all the time. If we press higher up the pitch then this will naturally happen.

[K-Hod]

I suppose if we got £10-14m for Rhodes and it could be reinvested in the team then selling might be worth considering...but it's a massive risk. He doesn't do a lot in games sometimes but he's there to score goals, which he does very well. Football is littered with strikers who have 1 or 2 great seasons where they bang them in for fun and then never repeat it. Rhodes gets you 20+ every season. Personally i think he's gone off the boil a bit over the last 12 montha and has been been missing chances he would normally take. Hopefully the new manager will help restore his confidence a bit.

As someone else said it's all about getting players closer to Rhodes so he's not as isloated all the time. If we press higher up the pitch then this will naturally happen.

HALLELUJAH! Someone else has spotted this! Many strikers would find it difficult playing up top solo with their nearest team mate about 40 yards away......