[Archived] European Championship France 2016

[oldjamfan1]

I personally wouldn't have made as many changes as Hodgson did tonight, but I still think England have a chance to go deep into this tournament. I don't care who finishes second in Portugal's group (including them) - I would fancy us to see them off. I suspect we could be playing Iceland.

Once you get to the knockout stages anything can happen.

[bazza]

I thought England were very poor tonight from start to finish.

The two full backs were not as good as the original two, although Clyne did well in the first half.

England in the second half continued to try and go through the middle instead of using the full backs down the touch line.

Henderson is not international quality.

Very, very poor performance and we are not likely to progress beyond quarter finals.

[Neal]

Alli, Kane, Smalling, Cahill, Whikshere, Henderson... Dog @#/?.

Cahill and Smalling had jack @#/? to do tonight and somehow managed to come out of it looking like worst defenders than SKRTEL.

Magager still doesnt know his best 11 and group stages are over.

[roverandout]

I wouldn't call it a poor performance not great but not poor, we are keeping the ball better now than in previous tournaments, which is good, we lack the killer instinct, we don't have a bale or an ibrahimivic or a lewondowski. We do have a lot of good technical players though

[Audax]

In ways I wonder if it was a gentleman's agreement draw; but a lot of folks including Michael Ballack thought England looked good, actually, I think England looked very good. Though, England dominated; Slovakia only 4 shots on goal.

And the groups are jumbled. There will be teams one wants to avoid, Germany, Spain and Italy I'd say. And France of course.

Croatia and Poland could be dangerous.

I'll stop there, Wales and Slovakia could take out some countries, I'm sure of it. I thought at the beginning, Wales had a chance to make some noise, Quarterfinals, so we'll see.

Despite Wales success; let's not forget, I don't think they've been to a big tournament since 1958; they had Sir John Charles who in fact, got hurt in the World Cup and Pele like the book says broke Welsh hearts.

Good luck to them, NI, Ireland too.

[Audax]

Russia couldn't put out a good game when their tournament life depended on it.

Everyone expects Portugal to be up and ready but I do wonder.

[Audax]

B2: England will play F2:

http://uk.soccerway.com/international/europe/european-championships/2016-france/s7576/final-stages/

That means someone out of that group with Hungary, Portugal, Iceland and Austria.

B1: Wales will play either A3/C3/D3, so one can see whom from the table, possibly Northern Ireland.

http://uk.soccerway.com/international/europe/european-championships/2016-france/group-stage/r31060/

Slovakia and Wales could be dangerous opposition for most teams out there; so, they are out of England's way, the knockout rounds will ratchet up in intensity.

Teams to avoid;Spain, France, Italy and Germany.

Dangerous teams, Poland and Croatia, imho.

Probably a few others out there too; in some ways, the seeding won't be the end all.

I do see the Daily Mail is making a lot of hay pointing out that the results of the changes can be questioned but I don't see that being said that much elsewhere.

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If B2 England can defeat F3; then, I want to see if we get a real difficult opponent, it is going to happen somewhere.

Croatia has been in that kind of position before; they've done well. You've just got to get on with it.

[philipl]

Deeply pedestrian second half epitomised by England playing the ball sideways along the half way line when the final whistle went.

If you look at every tournament winning team, you invariably see:

- a settled team with a settled core

- momentum building from one game to the next

- a squad and manager that deeply believes in themselves and each other.

For England, Euros16 has to start 3 games after it started for every other team in the last 16....

To be honest I am feeling deeply cheated by Woy. That second half line up against Wales was really good and could have inspired us all to great hope if Woy hadn't completely @#/? it up last night.

[philipl]

Just watched highlights of Wales v Russia.

Not an exaggeration to say that a 6-1 result would have been a much more accurate reflection of the game (the 6ft 5in Russian centre forward skyed one that should have been a tap in in the 89th minute).

Basically, Wales has a better than average Premier League side who completely believe in each other, an astute experienced manager with an absolute worldy in Gareth Bale in the side and Ramsey immense. If Wales stay in this competition much longer, the football commentariat will start putting Bale into the pantheon of the very best 5 players currently playing. It got to the point that Russian players were so demoralised, they just let Bale accelerate away from them and in the hope the last line or their keeper would save them- the Russian keeper made at least five outstanding saves.

Unlike England, you see passes being played without looking because the players know where each other will be.

Don't want to jinx them but what are the odds on Wales a) reaching the semis, and winning it?

[philipl]

B2: England will play F2:

http://uk.soccerway.com/international/europe/european-championships/2016-france/s7576/final-stages/

That means someone out of that group with Hungary, Portugal, Iceland and Austria.

B1: Wales will play either A3/C3/D3, so one can see whom from the table, possibly Northern Ireland.

http://uk.soccerway.com/international/europe/european-championships/2016-france/group-stage/r31060/

Slovakia and Wales could be dangerous opposition for most teams out there; so, they are out of England's way, the knockout rounds will ratchet up in intensity.

Teams to avoid;Spain, France, Italy and Germany.

Dangerous teams, Poland and Croatia, imho.

Probably a few others out there too; in some ways, the seeding won't be the end all.

I do see the Daily Mail is making a lot of hay pointing out that the results of the changes can be questioned but I don't see that being said that much elsewhere.

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If B2 England can defeat F3; then, I want to see if we get a real difficult opponent, it is going to happen somewhere.

Croatia has been in that kind of position before; they've done well. You've just got to get on with it.

Almost certainly Wales v Northern Ireland and I would say at least a 50% chance of England v Iceland.

England v Portugal would be tasty though....

[joey_big_nose]

I have to say I won't fancy it if we get Portugal. Theyll sit deep and just go for Ronaldo long.

To be honest I think we will struggle now. Whoever we play will know we cant breakdown deep lying teams. I expect everyone we play to park the bus (unless we draw one of the big teams) and someone will do us on the counter.

Taking Caroll could have made a big difference imo.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Reading back through the posts Roys being critisized again for doing something a bit different.

We've been doing the same things for 50yrs and won nothing, I've traveled thousands of miles watching England managers in tournaments do the same thing, absolutely nothing out of the ordinary!

So if Roy wants to make changes after a win I'm all for it, lets see how far we go doing things a bit different.

Not sure I have the confidence in Woy Gav , but the doing things a bit different I agree with - and in that I mean we have actually kept things to the 'English' way which is something I have mentioned for years with England instead of trying to turn them into something they are not.

England have not played bad in any game just not as fluent as they possibly could be ( given the different players being used is it any wonder) , but the evidence is there to show that if it clicks we could go all he way IMO

Whoever we get in the next fixture should not be of any worry really given the countries it could be , we are through without setting the world on fire and as with all tournaments some teams take a while to get fully functional - disappointing in certain ways it may have been but it was certainly not downbeat

The million dollar question is can Woy provide the oil ( instead of tinkering too much) as there is something rather refreshing imo about this squad which makes me feel they can reach SF at least

[K-Hod]

I have to say I won't fancy it if we get Portugal. Theyll sit deep and just go for Ronaldo long.

To be honest I think we will struggle now. Whoever we play will know we cant breakdown deep lying teams. I expect everyone we play to park the bus (unless we draw one of the big teams) and someone will do us on the counter.

Taking Caroll could have made a big difference imo.

I was banging that drum at the time and think it was a big risk not to take him. Not that I have any influence in the team selection at all, but it was worrying to see all our strikers being picked that were so similar.

We've also a lack of natural width. Not taking Townsend with the end to the season he had, again, I feel was a big mistake. People complained about shoehorning Rooney into the squad, but imo he's looked one of our best players in a midfield role!

[sambo]

Watched Wales last night in Cardiff fanzone. What a performance from them - Bale is really confirming himself as one of the leading players in the world. He was unplayable last night and was a joy to watch.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Watched Wales last night in Cardiff fanzone. What a performance from them - Bale is really confirming himself as one of the leading players in the world. He was unplayable last night and was a joy to watch.

Indeed. Ramsey also has had a very good tournament so far, he was all over the pitch against England making contributions.

[Rover_Shaun]

FAILURE to win our group again gives us an uphill struggle to make the semis compared to the easier route.

The team lack guile and intelligence. They just did the same thing over and over again even though it wasn't working. Crap

[oldjamfan1]

FAILURE to win our group again gives us an uphill struggle to make the semis compared to the easier route.

The team lack guile and intelligence. They just did the same thing over and over again even though it wasn't working. Crap

Is (potentially) Belgium and Spain in the quarter and semi that much easier than (potentially) France and Germany? I'm not sure it is. Don't disagree with the rest of your post though. You should always go all out to win your group and England should have been able to do that comfortably. I'm not sure French fans will have been delighted with the outcome to be honest, I'm sure they would have been hoping for the likes of Wales, Slovakia, Hungary etc in the quarter final rather than - potentially - England.

[Kamy100]

The thing is you are never going to get an "easy" tie in a Quarter Final.

As it stands IF we win our second round match we are likely to meet France. Barring a collapse Belgium should qualify 2nd in their group and would have been potential opponents if we had won the group. Both equally hard ties.

This is a very promising England team. I have been encouraged by the positive attacking attitude albeit against some of the weaker teams in the tournament, the big concern has been that we have lacked a killer instinct in the final third which will ultimately cost us once we come up against a decent side.

[Rover_Shaun]

Do we have enough to beat Hungary, Iceland or even a poor Portugal? From what I have seen....just. This current crop are on the same disappionting trajectory of past teams. Though it doesn't help when the manager is pretty clueless

[Kamy100]

Do we have enough to beat Hungary, Iceland or even a poor Portugal? From what I have seen....just. This current crop are on the same disappionting trajectory of past teams. Though it doesn't help when the manager is pretty clueless

The difference between this side and some of the other recent teams is that they are trying to play attacking football. Last few tournaments it has been an absolute pain watching England play negative boring football.

As for Roy I feel for him today. I didn't want him to make 6 changes last night but in the end his gameplan worked in terms of us completely dominating the match, he cannot be blamed for players missing clear cut chances.

[Gav]

Not sure I have the confidence in Woy Gav , but the doing things a bit different I agree with - and in that I mean we have actually kept things to the 'English' way which is something I have mentioned for years with England instead of trying to turn them into something they are not.

England have not played bad in any game just not as fluent as they possibly could be ( given the different players being used is it any wonder) , but the evidence is there to show that if it clicks we could go all he way IMO

Whoever we get in the next fixture should not be of any worry really given the countries it could be , we are through without setting the world on fire and as with all tournaments some teams take a while to get fully functional - disappointing in certain ways it may have been but it was certainly not downbeat

The million dollar question is can Woy provide the oil ( instead of tinkering too much) as there is something rather refreshing imo about this squad which makes me feel they can reach SF at least

Yes I know where you're coming from CAPT, but if we can get this right I think this side could go all the way and I've not thought that since 96.

We have an abundance of talent all over the park, I've been surprised by the quality to be honest, but we're missing a Tugay type to find the killer pass, especially when we're up against 11 men behind the ball.

Roy should now know his best 11 having giving them all a chance, it's a refreshing approach instead of just picking players on club form and sticking with it. In years gone by Kane for instance would have played every game, Sterling also if he started the first game, but not under Roy and I welcome that approach.

Onwards and upwards.

[J*B]

Yes I know where you're coming from CAPT, but if we can get this right I think this side could go all the way and I've not thought that since 96.

We have an abundance of talent all over the park, I've been surprised by the quality to be honest, but we're missing a Tugay type to find the killer pass, especially when we're up against 11 men behind the ball.

Roy should now know his best 11 having giving them all a chance, it's a refreshing approach instead of just picking players on club form and sticking with it. In years gone by Kane for instance would have played every game, Sterling also if he started the first game, but not under Roy and I welcome that approach.

Onwards and upwards.

I disagree, I think the only reason Kane and Sterling aren't starting is because Roy doesn't know his strongest team. He's got problems all over the pitch which he hasn't made a firm decision on, despite two years of friendlies.

He wants Wilshere to play, that much is clear. But he can't drop Dier or Rooney. He knows he has no wingers, so he wants to play Sterling - but he's out of form of confidence. The public all want Vardy, but he knows he can't play Vardy up front on his own. He can't play Vardy and Kane up front together because he doesn't have the wingers, so he's forced into playing strikers like Vardy and Sturridge out wide.

Look at the Italians and Germans for how to play tournament football. They know there starting 11 and then have a back up plan involving a different combination of players. England and Roy are making it up as they go along trying to accommodate players into a first team without any real strategy or back up plan.

Its still a disgrace that Drinkwater and Noble are at home whilst Henderson and Wilshere are over there, imo.

[K-Hod]

I disagree, I think the only reason Kane and Sterling aren't starting is because Roy doesn't know his strongest team. He's got problems all over the pitch which he hasn't made a firm decision on, despite two years of friendlies.

He wants Wilshere to play, that much is clear. But he can't drop Dier or Rooney. He knows he has no wingers, so he wants to play Sterling. The public all want Vardy, but he knows he can't play Vardy up front on his own. He can't play Vardy and Kane up front together because he doesn't have the wingers, so he's forced into playing strikers like Vardy and Sturridge out wide.

Look at the Italians and Germans for how to play tournament football. They know there starting 11 and then have a back up plan involving a different combination of players. England and Roy are making it up as they go along trying to accommodate players.

Its still a disgrace that Drinkwater and Noble are at home whilst Henderson and Wilshere are over there, imo.

Hallelujah.

We've an alarming lack of width (out there in France, not in the national pool of players). Hodgson really doesn't know his best team, it's a sign of weakness imo. The squad is so imbalanced and was a big concern for me. We're short at centre half and out wide. Playing Vardy out wide was cowardly, play him up front and do the diamond if you must play two strikers.

[Gav]

I disagree, I think the only reason Kane and Sterling aren't starting is because Roy doesn't know his strongest team. He's got problems all over the pitch which he hasn't made a firm decision on, despite two years of friendlies.

He wants Wilshere to play, that much is clear. But he can't drop Dier or Rooney. He knows he has no wingers, so he wants to play Sterling - but he's out of form of confidence. The public all want Vardy, but he knows he can't play Vardy up front on his own. He can't play Vardy and Kane up front together because he doesn't have the wingers, so he's forced into playing strikers like Vardy and Sturridge out wide.

Look at the Italians and Germans for how to play tournament football. They know there starting 11 and then have a back up plan involving a different combination of players. England and Roy are making it up as they go along trying to accommodate players into a first team without any real strategy or back up plan.

Its still a disgrace that Drinkwater and Noble are at home whilst Henderson and Wilshere are over there, imo.

Your main argument seems to be built on having no wingers, who needs wingers when you've got great attacking options at fullback? Clyne put 5/6 quality balls into the box last night, against Wales and Russia the same with different personnel, its the least of our worries.

Just because Roys playing attacking players out wide doesn't mean he's got issues in those areas, he's trying to accommodate our abundance of quality attacking players, if he gets it right we could go all the way.

I was at Euro 2000 where Germany finished bottom of the group with 1 point, never made it out of the first stage but I do understand what you're trying to say, very rarely do Germany get it wrong, I agree.

This so far has been the best football I've seen in many years, we look a real threat, and against the better sides I think we'll see more goals and more points.

Hallelujah.

We've an alarming lack of width (out there in France, not in the national pool of players). Hodgson really doesn't know his best team, it's a sign of weakness imo. The squad is so imbalanced and was a big concern for me. We're short at centre half and out wide. Playing Vardy out wide was cowardly, play him up front and do the diamond if you must play two strikers.

Me and you K-Hod are watching a different tournament

[Stuart]

Gav, you are definitely watching a different England team. In your tournament the points are for percentage possession and number of players used.

Question for people:

Kyle Walker and Eric Dier have been the (only) standout players for England do far this tournament IMHO. Who would be folks' third and fourth choices?