[Archived] Mk Dons @ Stadium Mk, Saturday October 17Th 15:00 Ko

[JAL]

I think we both know there's far more to it than that!

A winning team top of the table will bring fans back Bullshit and losers won't K-hod.

[G Somerset Rover]

There was an instance second half when their winger skinned him just inside our half, he simply turned round and walked back towards our goal. No chasing back, nothing. He gave up and that is unacceptable.

Marshall and Duffy's defending from the highlights that I've seen could quite easily make Crimewatch.

[Amo]

Let me answer that, outclassed brfcc's favorite manager Big Mick and his Ipswich side.

In this league, anyone can beat anyone on their day. What matters most is where you finish come May, and I guarantee Ipswich will be higher in the league than we are.

Got a draw away at a Hull side that was worth 30m

I don't have time to check that right now, but nonetheless, just because Hull's side cost £30m, doesn't mean it's worth £30m, right?

Hammered Charlton at home

We won't face many sides as bad as Charlton that day.

Got a very credible draw at QPR

Whoop de doo.

and in reality should have beaten Fulham

In reality? Did we lose to them in The Matrix or something?

Shoulda, coulda, woulda...

All positive signs in my book, if you're looking for anything more you're either self medicating or deluded in the current climate.

Au contraire, GAV. Assuming arguendo, that our performances have merited more points, it's never a positive sign when a team plays well but has little return. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Like most fans, you are a defeatist and willing to accept mediocrity. It was worse in the 1960s after all, lest we forget! We should just be grateful to have a pitch, 11 players, and a jolly good chap in the dugout.

[mustard]

In this league, anyone can beat anyone on their day. What matters most is where you finish come May, and I guarantee Ipswich will be higher in the league than we are.

I don't have time to check that right now, but nonetheless, just because Hull's side cost £30m, doesn't mean it's worth £30m, right?

We won't meet many sides as bad as Charlton that day... and they still could've scored a couple.

Whoop de doo.

In reality? Did we lose to them in The Matrix or something?

Shoulda, coulda, woulda...

Au contraire, GAV. Assuming arguendo, that our performances have merited more points, it's never a positive sign when a team plays well but has little return. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Like most fans, you are a defeatist and willing to accept mediocrity. It was worse in the 1960s after all, lest we forget! We should just be grateful to have a pitch, 11 players, and a jolly good chap in the dugout.

Following Gav's rather unusual logic, we should have stuck with Kean because he got a handful of points against decent teams. Remember that time he um 'masterminded' a victory over Arsenal? Perhaps the Arsenal board should have cut ties with Wenger and appointed the odious one in his place.

[Gav]

Interest remarks, most would say predictable, no middle ground on here.

I lost almost 2 seasons being p1ssed off about a situation I couldn't change, so I now take each game as it comes and have enjoyed the games I've seen of late, whilst you 2 obviously spent 90minutes angry and frustrated that Bowyer got a couple of wins and the side played well.

I'm happy with my 'defeatist' approach, stops me getting a ulcer if nothing else.

[Amo]

Interest remarks, most would say predictable, no middle ground on here.

I lost almost 2 seasons being p1ssed off about a situation I couldn't change, so I now take each game as it comes and have enjoyed the games I've seen of late, whilst you 2 obviously spent 90minutes angry and frustrated that Bowyer got a couple of wins and the side played well.

I'm happy with my 'defeatist' approach, stops me getting a ulcer if nothing else.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Gav]

Ignorance is bliss.

So lets just say I don't blissfully ignore, like you, what should I do?

[Amo]

So lets just say I don't blissfully ignore, like you, what should I do?

I'm not suggesting that you should do anything, but at least acknowledge the fact that results are unacceptable and Bowyer's taken us as far as he can.

[Gav]

I'm not suggesting that you should do anything, but at least acknowledge the fact that results are unacceptable and Bowyer's taken us as far as he can.

If you read post 308 I said he lost my support last season

The difference is I can enjoy a win like the ones against Ipswich and Charlton, you don't seem to be able to, I don't think you're alone either, the site goes very quiet after a win, strange that

I think it helps if you've seen rough times also, most on here have only experienced the good times, not their fault by the way but its a valid point.

[mustard]

If you read post 308 I said he lost my support last season

The difference is I can enjoy a win like the ones against Ipswich and Charlton, you don't seem to be able to, I don't think you're alone either, the site goes very quiet after a win, strange that

I think it helps if you've seen rough times also, most on here have only experienced the good times, not their fault by the way but its a valid point.

I think it's difficult to wholeheartedly enjoy a win knowing the team will continue to underachieve with poor performances and poor results being the norm. All the while, our 'manager' picks up hundreds of thousands of pounds every year for doing a shoddy job. It's a bit of a sickener. Also, I personally find the pro-Bowyer spiel after a win rather infuriating. I know football fans are notorious for being fickle, but a couple of good performances and results and Bowyer is heralded as some genius who we are lucky to have. If we were consistently performing well and picking up points I have no doubt the forum would flourish, however that isn't the case, is it? Why bother coming on here to have the few pro-Bowyer fans rub it in about how great GB is after a win, only to be called a negative Nora for disputing their opinion?

[Gav]

I think it's difficult to wholeheartedly enjoy a win knowing the team will continue to underachieve with poor performances and poor results being the norm. All the while, our 'manager' picks up hundreds of thousands of pounds every year for doing a shoddy job. It's a bit of a sickener. Also, I personally find the pro-Bowyer spiel after a win rather infuriating. I know football fans are notorious for being fickle, but a couple of good performances and results and Bowyer is heralded as some genius who we are lucky to have. If we were consistently performing well and picking up points I have no doubt the forum would flourish, however that isn't the case, is it? Why bother coming on here to have the few pro-Bowyer fans rub it in about how great GB is after a win, only to be called a negative Nora for disputing their opinion?

If you can't enjoy a win why bother going?

As for giving the site a miss when we win, you do understand that the majority on here want Bowyer out don't you? so how do you think those Bowyer supporters feel the vast majority of the time?!

I'm no Bowyer fan but I'm being singled out for enjoying a few wins and some decent performances, people have lost sight of what supporting the club is all about.

[mustard]

If you can't enjoy a win why bother going?

As for giving the site a miss when we win, how about when the few Bowyer supporters have to put up with the anti-Bowyer brigade berating anyone that thinks Bowyers doing ok, or at least doing something good? which is more often than not?

I'm no Bowyer fan but I'm being singled out for enjoying a few wins and some decent performances, people have lost sight of what supporting the club is all about.

To wholeheartedly enjoy it is rather more difficult Gav. I enjoy us winning, I enjoy watching entertaining football. However, the situation that has hung over Ewood like a storm cloud for the last years still remains. Do you think the majority of fans enjoy watching Rovers? I'd say a great proportion attend out of a sense of duty.

I guess it is a hell of a lot more logical to believe that Bowyer isn't doing so well. I'd say our league position speaks for itself. I know it's a matter of opinion and there are plenty of factors determining ones belief as to whether Bowyer is doing a good job, but the fact we are moving backwards and racking up millions in debt suggests otherwise. I'll state that I believe he's done well in player recruitment but that's where I'd draw the line. He's failed in near every other area.

I don't think you're being singled out for enjoying games Gav, but rather for your insistence that Bowyer is the right man for the job, as mentioned in post #332. A team consisting of a number of internationals and arguably the best striker in the league and yet we're the deluded ones for expecting better than what Bowyer and his side serve up? I think the hopes and ambitions of many fans have been dumbed down, to the point where some believe that languishing in the bottom half is doing well. Many a manager has proven you don't need a great squad to be successful in the Championship. Plenty could work wonders with this team so let's stop pretending Bowyer is doing anything better than a shoddy job.

[Parsonblue]

If you read post 308 I said he lost my support last season

The difference is I can enjoy a win like the ones against Ipswich and Charlton, you don't seem to be able to, I don't think you're alone either, the site goes very quiet after a win, strange that

I think it helps if you've seen rough times also, most on here have only experienced the good times, not their fault by the way but its a valid point.

Completely agree Gav. If you can't enjoy wins there is no point in going to matches. I think you make a very telling point about having seen tough times before. Let's be honest there was a time when we could only dream of being where we actually are today so I suppose everything is relative. Of course, it was better in the Premier League, just as it was better being in the First Division in the early sixties rather than in the Third Division in the early seventies. I think most supporters of town clubs would feel the same. I'm sure that Burnley fans who watched that wonderful Championship side of 59-60 enjoyed that far more than the years spent in the Fourth Division! One thing you can't deny about tough times, it makes you appreciate the good times even more.

[Gav]

To wholeheartedly enjoy it is rather more difficult Gav. I enjoy us winning, I enjoy watching entertaining football. However, the situation that has hung over Ewood like a storm cloud for the last years still remains. Do you think the majority of fans enjoy watching Rovers? I'd say a great proportion attend out of a sense of duty.

I guess it is a hell of a lot more logical to believe that Bowyer isn't doing so well. I'd say our league position speaks for itself. I know it's a matter of opinion and there are plenty of factors determining ones belief as to whether Bowyer is doing a good job, but the fact we are moving backwards and racking up millions in debt suggests otherwise. I'll state that I believe he's done well in player recruitment but that's where I'd draw the line. He's failed in near every other area.

I don't think you're being singled out for enjoying games Gav, but rather for your insistence that Bowyer is the right man for the job, as mentioned in post #332. A team consisting of a number of internationals and arguably the best striker in the league and yet we're the deluded ones for expecting better than what Bowyer and his side serve up? I think the hopes and ambitions of many fans have been dumbed down, to the point where some believe that languishing in the bottom half is doing well. Many a manager has proven you don't need a great squad to be successful in the Championship. Plenty could work wonders with this team so let's stop pretending Bowyer is doing anything better than a shoddy job.

I wasn't saying he's the right man for the job in #332, I was pointing out some positives of late, its not all doom and gloom mustard.

Its a torrid time being a Rovers fan and has been for 5yrs now, but I see Bowyer is someone who wants to do a good job but isn't capable, promoted beyond his ability and despite the buck stopping with the manager, I'd much rather see Shaw and Venkys sod off before Gary Bowyer, and for that reason I won't hammer the guy.

[mustard]

Completely agree Gav. If you can't enjoy wins there is no point in going to matches. I think you make a very telling point about having seen tough times before. Let's be honest there was a time when we could only dream of being where we actually are today so I suppose everything is relative. Of course, it was better in the Premier League, just as it was better being in the First Division in the early sixties rather than in the Third Division in the early seventies. I think most supporters of town clubs would feel the same. I'm sure that Burnley fans who watched that wonderful Championship side of 59-60 enjoyed that far more than the years spent in the Fourth Division! One thing you can't deny about tough times, it makes you appreciate the good times even more.

Whilst I understand and appreciate that witnessing the struggles of Rovers over the years has given you a great sense of perspective, I must argue that it shouldn't mean accepting the present situation simply because it could be worse and has been worse before. All because Rovers had some torrid times over forty years ago doesn't mean that we should be content with where we are at the moment.

I'm of the opinion we are a managerial appointment away from competing for a spot in the top six and thus competing for promotion. Under Bowyer, we have never been in the mix and never will be IMO. We have Premier League facilities and the longer we stay languishing in the Championship under the stewardship of a manager that couldn't finish in the top six with the second best strike force in the league, the more chance we have of having to scrap Brockhall and Ewood to cull the spiralling debts.

The situation remains serious and will continue to get worse as time goes on. Being content with a manager who is universally accepted as being incapable of bringing out the best in this team is a damaging viewpoint IMO. Bowyer might be a nice chap and might be a good coach but does that warrant him earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to assist in us plodding along racking up millions in debt? I don't think so, personally.

[Amo]

Completely agree Gav. If you can't enjoy wins there is no point in going to matches. I think you make a very telling point about having seen tough times before. Let's be honest there was a time when we could only dream of being where we actually are today so I suppose everything is relative. Of course, it was better in the Premier League, just as it was better being in the First Division in the early sixties rather than in the Third Division in the early seventies. I think most supporters of town clubs would feel the same. I'm sure that Burnley fans who watched that wonderful Championship side of 59-60 enjoyed that far more than the years spent in the Fourth Division! One thing you can't deny about tough times, it makes you appreciate the good times even more.

Your posts are an insult to everyone who laboured to build this club into a bigger and better one. If it were down to people like you, we never would've had the glory years because 'things can always be worse'. It's the sort of small-time mentality that pervades the current regime, and when it starts rubbing off on the terraces, we've already lost.

Fans are fed up of supporting Rovers FULL STOP. They can't enjoy wins because there's no light at the end of the tunnel. It's not like each win is a step towards a bigger goal, other than the bare minimum of league survival. The key difference between now and forty years ago is that we didn't have astronomical debts, a transfer embargo, absentee owners, and the three stooges running the show.

[mustard]

I wasn't saying he's the right man for the job in #332, I was pointing out some positives of late, its not all doom and gloom mustard.

Its a torrid time being a Rovers fan and has been for 5yrs now, but I see Bowyer is someone who wants to do a good job but isn't capable, promoted beyond his ability and despite the buck stopping with the manager, I'd much rather see Shaw and Venkys sod off before Gary Bowyer, and for that reason I won't hammer the guy.

I think we all would Gav, however getting rid of the Venky's is a pipe dream until a legitimate buyer steps forth. Venky's have the power to make an appointment to change our fortunes for the better. It's not that unrealistic (though it might seem so after all that's gone on). I'm not gonna hammer the guy but I find it hard to stomach that he earns a king's ransom for his glaring incapabilities. If he wasn't a nice chap he'd have been KeanOuted long ago. You're right, it's not ALL doom and gloom but there's plenty more of that than positives. I just don't believe we should laud a manager who has failed and continues to fail in his duties.

[Gav]

I think we all would Gav, however getting rid of the Venky's is a pipe dream until a legitimate buyer steps forth. Venky's have the power to make an appointment to change our fortunes for the better. It's not that unrealistic (though it might seem so after all that's gone on). I'm not gonna hammer the guy but I find it hard to stomach that he earns a king's ransom for his glaring incapabilities. If he wasn't a nice chap he'd have been KeanOuted long ago. You're right, it's not ALL doom and gloom but there's plenty more of that than positives. I just don't believe we should laud a manager who has failed and continues to fail in his duties.

I hope I'm not coming across as lauding him, he's not doing a terrible job but he's not doing a good job either.

Venkys have the power/finance but they don't have the brain cells, they'll never have the brain cells, so I'm just enjoying the odd win until they crawl back under their rock and then we can then start to build again, until that day comes we'll slowly decline.

[Stuart]

Whilst I understand and appreciate that witnessing the struggles of Rovers over the years has given you a great sense of perspective, I must argue that it shouldn't mean accepting the present situation simply because it could be worse and has been worse before. All because Rovers had some torrid times over forty years ago doesn't mean that we should be content with where we are at the moment.

I'm of the opinion we are a managerial appointment away from competing for a spot in the top six and thus competing for promotion. Under Bowyer, we have never been in the mix and never will be IMO. We have Premier League facilities and the longer we stay languishing in the Championship under the stewardship of a manager that couldn't finish in the top six with the second best strike force in the league, the more chance we have of having to scrap Brockhall and Ewood to cull the spiralling debts.

The situation remains serious and will continue to get worse as time goes on. Being content with a manager who is universally accepted as being incapable of bringing out the best in this team is a damaging viewpoint IMO. Bowyer might be a nice chap and might be a good coach but does that warrant him earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to assist in us plodding along racking up millions in debt? I don't think so, personally.

And do you know the worst of it, Mustsrd?

In a couple of years' time - without change - a opinion like this will be called "the power of hindsight".

[chaddyrovers]

was listening to BBC Radio Lancs tonight and both Ian Bryson and Ian Battersby both said it was very harsh sending off for Henley and doubted how much contact they were.

[sambo]

was listening to BBC Radio Lancs tonight and both Ian Bryson and Ian Battersby both said it was very harsh sending off for Henley and doubted how much contact they were.

End of the day, he gave the referee a decision to make. We all know that people go down from the slightest contact, especially when they're running.

We'd be up in arms if it was the other way round and we didn't get it

[den]

was listening to BBC Radio Lancs tonight and both Ian Bryson and Ian Battersby both said it was very harsh sending off for Henley and doubted how much contact they were.

It was bad defending Chaddy. Defenders spend vast amounts of time on the training field learning how to avoid letting forwards get goal side of them - and how to handle the situation if he does. It happened, he'll hopefully learn from it, but it wasn't bad luck it was very poor defending and it probably cost us the game.

[USABlue]

Sadly Howard's passing and reading some of the stuff from then highlights the change in attitude of the "fan" these days.

What got me was the reminder of us stood on the Blackburn End singing Picka Picka Pickering, even though he had just got us relegated. Howards start that almost mirrors Bowyers this season and Bergs and Appletons. Fans stood by Mr Kendal, can you imagine that now? Not a chance.

[the original david brent]

End of the day, he gave the referee a decision to make. We all know that people go down from the slightest contact, especially when they're running.

We'd be up in arms if it was the other way round and we didn't get it

Spot on sambo. It was just shocking defending. An appalling read of the situation. I really want Henley to come good and fair play to him for being selected for the Wales squad. At times he looks a decent player. At other times he looks a liability.

Be interesting to see if Dyche targets Henley again as the weak link in our side. I remember from our defeat on Ewood 2 seasons ago Burnley deliberately targeted Henley. Their right back Trippier kept hitting long cross field balls over Henley's head, as oppose to the usual outlet down the line.

[TeamGB-11]

As jack walker said(much quoted by vinjay), 'Think big'..