[Archived] Derby At Home. 21St Oct

[JHRover]

The full time whistle in the Derby game on Sunday will go at about 2:30pm. By my calculations that gives them about 53 hours before they would have been kicking off against us if the game had been Tuesday night.

We are now facing a situation instead where the full time whistle against Derby will go at 9:30pm, and we will have a window of about 63 hours before we kick off against Burnley.

So in terms of recovery and preparation we are only getting an addition 10 hours to what Derby were facing before the shift back a day, even taking into account 3 nights rather than 2.

Rovers have to agree to fixture changes (last time I checked the rules) so we can't hide behind the 'hands tied' excuse we usually do.

Even if the League had ordered it, we should have been challenging it and demanding that at the very least Burnley was put back to Sunday.

You talk about protocols in this league, the issue isn't entirely that we are playing Wednesday rather than Tuesday, but also that it is followed up by a Saturday lunchtime game which just so happens to be our biggest game of the season.

I'm not aware of any other team this season that has had to play Wednesday night-Saturday lunchtime. As you say, the nearest we can get is QPR going to Hull after our Wednesday game. But that was a 3pm kick off and wasn't their biggest game of the season.

[oldjamfan1]

The reason the midweek fixture gets moved back for teams who play on Sunday is so blindingly simple I can't even believe that the discussion above exits.

Playing Sunday + Tuesday only allows a single day between competitive games. Playing Wednesday + Saturday allows both Thursday and Friday in between. So in terms of recovery / rest / training there is no comparison - every manager and every player will want two full days rather than just one.

People suggesting that this is "scandalous" or Rovers have capitulated to Derby's "demands" are talking rubbish! It's the same protocol for every single team in the league when Sunday games are followed by a set of midweek fixtures.

In fact Rovers were the beneficiaries barely a month ago after playing Fulham on Sunday. Imagine the mass ranting on here if QPR had turned around and refused to move our game with them from Tuesday to Wednesday night, citing their tricky away game in Hull 4 days later as the excuse!

Fair point Tris (I did wonder whether in fact it had been something Rovers had any control over), but I think the person that raised the issue was making the point that the recovery time in respect of actual time elapsed between Derby's game on Sunday finishing and their game against us kicking off (in its original Tuesday slot) was the same as the time elapsed between the rearranged Derby match ending and us v B*****y kicking off. He wasn't viewing it in terms of 'clear' days (if all that makes sense??).

Edit: Now explained above much more clearly than I did!!

[Tris]

I'm not aware of any other team this season that has had to play Wednesday night-Saturday lunchtime. As you say, the nearest we can get is QPR going to Hull after our Wednesday game. But that was a 3pm kick off and wasn't their biggest game of the season.

I'll tell you what certainly hasn't happened this season or any other - that a team has forced another team to play Sunday - Tuesday because of a Sky fixture when the common sense solution is Sunday - Wednesday - Saturday which gives everyone two clear days between fixtures. Whether the Saturday kick off is lunchtime or 3pm makes no difference whatsoever, and neither does the opposition (I can't believe I'm even discussing this).

Try thinking things through a bit. If Rovers had refused this "because we're playing Burnley on the Saturday" they'd have been laughed out of the next league meeting by the 23 other clubs. And then ostracized.

Take the Forest home game which has just moved from Tuesday to Monday night in December - and has also resulted in the Rotherham game moving from Saturday to Friday. If Rovers had unilaterally acted like spoilt babies as you seem to be advocating, the rest of the league (especially Derby) might have suggested to Rotherham they should play Rovers on Saturday as planned.

I've no idea if league rules insist on such knock-on fixture changes or not, but I'd suggest probably not because it is just simple courtesy and common sense between professional clubs.

You've described it as scandalous but it just isn't. It's totally normal.

[JHRover]

I suppose it all boils down to whether you are comfortable with us rearranging our fixtures to suit other clubs and in the process harm ourselves.

Whatever way you want to dress it up, moving the Derby game to a Wednesday will not benefit Blackburn Rovers. It will benefit Derby County and Burnley.

The 'two clear days' thing means nothing. Break it down into hours and we've ended up with a similar time period as Derby were facing previously before the shift.

The rule always used to be that both clubs had to agree to such a change. If I was running Rovers I wouldn't have agreed to such a change ahead of the Burnley game. That game is special and unique and Rovers should do whatever is in their power to give us an advantage in that game. Not hand over a full day to help Derby after another Sky game.

[Tris]

The 'two clear days' thing means nothing. Break it down into hours and we've ended up with a similar time period as Derby were facing previously before the shift.

If you actually think this - that a number of hours can equal the same as 1 day vs 2 days - then the discussion was pointless from the start.

Going your way Rovers would have been playing Fulham on Sunday and QPR on Tuesday last month, and Rotherham on Saturday followed by Forest on Monday in a few weeks time.

Crazy.

[JHRover]

Not as crazy as handing Burnley a 24 hour advantage over ourselves ahead of the East Lancs derby.

[Tris]

Not as crazy as handing Burnley a 24 hour advantage over ourselves ahead of the East Lancs derby.

Oh well, common sense didn't get through in your case. However this is enshrined in the league regulations as below. So there is no handing Burnley any advantage, no weak-willed easy touch Rovers, no scandal - just normality by the rules of the competition.

Or in other words, the regulations reflect common sense : http://www.football-league.co.uk/global/section5.aspx

26.3 However, where a Club is selected to play in a televised Match played under the auspices of The League on a Thursday evening, and that Club is also scheduled to play on the immediately following Saturday ('Saturday Match'), the Club shall have the right to request that The League reschedule the Saturday Match to the immediately following Sunday i.e. a 24 hour postponement. Approval for any such request shall not be unreasonably withheld or delayed. Where applicable the provisions of Regulation 26.4 will also apply.

26.4 Further, where:

26.4.1 a League Match is scheduled to be played on a Tuesday (‘Tuesday Match’);

26.4.2 the Home Club and/or the Away Club in that Tuesday Match is required to play on the immediately preceding Sunday (‘Sunday Match’) because of matters outside its control including, by way of example and without limitation, police requirements, television or cup commitments;

26.4.3 the Sunday Match was not scheduled to be played on that Sunday in the first i.e. the draft fixture list published by The League in the immediately preceding Close Season;

26.4.4 neither the Home Club nor the Away Club are scheduled to play on the immediately following Thursday or Friday; and

26.4.5 either the Home Club or Away Club in the Tuesday Match requests (giving not less than 28 Clear days’ notice prior to the originally scheduled Tuesday date) that the Tuesday Match be rescheduled,

(together the ‘Conditions’ and each a ‘Condition’) the, provided all Conditions are satisfied the Tuesday Match shall automatically be rescheduled to take place on the immediately following Wednesday i.e. a 24 hour postponement. For the avoidance of doubt, where one Condition (or more) is not satisfied, the matter shall be determined by The League in its absolute discretion, whose decision shall be final and binding.

Now with apologies to everyone else, it's time to get on with Friday ...

[Paul]

Thanks to PB for highlighting these changes. I now know Rotheram is on Fruday 11th and Forest Monday 14th December. Strange fixture arrangement in my view!

[Mercer]

Some strange match dates.

These issues impact on all clubs at some point so no point bellyaching.

If it is out of our control then we just need to get on with it.

My concern is where we have a degree of control over fixture dates as I very much doubt that messrs Bowyer and Shaw have the wherewithal to plot the right course for Rovers and our fans.

[AllRoverAsia]

Selfishly on my part but they can change as many games to new dates as they want - if it puts Rovers on TV.

Sent from my armchair in Bangkok.

[joey_big_nose]

We need to treat the MK result as an aberration due to the early red and just set up again and give it another shot.

That means for me Marshall shouldn't go to right back. Bring Nyambe in but apart from that stick the same side out.

Would be helpful if Koita or Guthrie are back.

[tomphil]

After watching young Nyambe both for the U21's then v Shrews in't cup I'd say no. Lad needs loaning out first, he's got the physical attributes but he was all over the shop on his first team debut.

Stop p!$$ing about and loan in some decent defensive cover because we are going to need it. As for the game itself it won't be difficult for Clement to outthink Bowyer so we need to be up for it and get into them. We should approach ALL home games in the manner of the Ipswich one. We won't win them all but we need to try at least because going at it like that we've got the beating of most.

Rovers 1 Derby 1

( Rhodes who else, no really WHO else ? )

12,654 (700 Rams)

[DE.]

2-1 Derby, a Rhodes goal for us. Lads will have given it a right good go, ref was against us, etc etc.

[chaddyrovers]

Its looking like Marshall will play at Right back. With Henley banned and Lowe injured. I agree that Nyambe needs a loan somewhere and isnt ready for Rovers first team.

I would Chris Taylor on the right wing.

And the rest of the team picks itself tbh.

[joey_big_nose]

Its looking like Marshall will play at Right back. With Henley banned and Lowe injured. I agree that Nyambe needs a loan somewhere and isnt ready for Rovers first team.

I would Chris Taylor on the right wing.

And the rest of the team picks itself tbh.

Fair enough Chaddy, Tom and you watch more games live than me.

Marshall at RB if we are on the back foot is a massive weakness (he's great on the overlap if we are on top).

I'm not the hottest on non Rovers Championship players, but if Derby have a good left winger to pin Marshall back they will have a lot of joy.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

As difficult a game as they come in this league against a free scoring derby.

Not the sort of fixture we need just before the Cotton Town clash.

1-2

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[chaddyrovers]

Fair enough Chaddy, Tom and you watch more games live than me.

Marshall at RB if we are on the back foot is a massive weakness (he's great on the overlap if we are on top).

I'm not the hottest on non Rovers Championship players, but if Derby have a good left winger to pin Marshall back they will have a lot of joy.

I agree about Marshall being weakness at right back but with Henley and Lowe both out for the game I don't see another player who can play there unless you play Olsson at right back with Spurr at left back could be an option

Derby formation will be 4-3-3 with the front 3 most likely to be Ince on the right, Martin centre and Russell on the left.

That's why I would play Taylor on the right to provide cover for Marshall plus he has a great work rate.

[Mercer]

This will be a tough one.

Saw most of Derby game today and very impressed with their whole game. If they come at us, I fear for our defence.

Should be a good test and will measure just how far we are away from being genuine top six challengers.

Honestly feels like two draws from our next two fixtures will be quite a result for us.

[tomphil]

Its looking like Marshall will play at Right back. With Henley banned and Lowe injured. I agree that Nyambe needs a loan somewhere and isnt ready for Rovers first team.

I would Chris Taylor on the right wing.

And the rest of the team picks itself tbh.

Agree on Taylor infact I would be inclined to try him at right back, if Lowe or Marshall can do it, albeit to little effect, then why not try Taylor there ?

Whatever happens he better not start Delf on the right or we'll be wide open.

[AggyBlue]

Should be a good test and will measure just how far we are away from being genuine top six challengers.

Is that tongue in cheek?

[roverandout]

Mercerman seems to change more than the tide

[K-Hod]

Given his work rate I'd also be tempted to give Taylor a run at right back.