[Archived] Burnlee Preview

[Hasta]

...but more likely they will do what they've done for 5 years and make more bad decisions and hasten our decline.

But we are declining anyway. Practically everyone, whichever viewpoint you take, is saying league one beckons. Why would you not try?

[scotty_beam_me_up]

That's simply not true Hasta, I don't want us to decline at all, but I'm convinced changing manager won't change the clubs fortunes.

All that said I'd sack Bowyer today, at least that would stir things up a bit until Venkys do actually crawl back under a rock, but it won't get us promoted, it can't do with no structure in the club, no budget and very very average players.

I don't think we have average players. I think this side is good enough to compete for the play offs.

Steele is a good keeper.

Struggle at right back admittedly

3 good centre halves

Two good left backs

Centre mid, Evans and Akpan starting to form a partnership and Gutherie to come back in

Conway has more assists in the last year than anyone else in the league

Rhodes is the best goalscorer in the league

A manager would find a way to get the best out of this lot.

[JBiz]

But we are declining anyway. Practically everyone, whichever viewpoint you take, is saying league one beckons. Why would you not try?

Practically everyone? I called pointing to relegation in October as "hysteria"!

Someone mentioned Wigan as a comparison, they sacked Rosler in November and still went down.

I think we will finish mid table but as I said, if we are 2/3 points outside drop zone at Christmas I'll be far more worried with or without GB.

If we had a sound setup in terms of directors and ownership, the question would be much simpler to answer. GB would've never been in the position in the first place.

I cannot ignore the possibility of them making things much worse.

[Stuart]

I'm not saying a better manager wouldn't improve us, he probably would, but he'd never take us up, which is where we need to be.

The reason he'd never take us up is because the club has no structure, no ambition, no plan, we're rudderless under Shaw and Venkys.

If we brought in everyone's favourite managers Dyche or Rowett does anyone honestly think in 2yrs time we'd be the Premiership?

Absolutely no chance, that's why Venkys have to go and let's start again.

Why Dyche got Bumley promoted, did he have better players, better facilities, better financial resources than Bowyer has now?

Or did he simply have the managerial ability that Bowyer lacks?

Feel like I've been mucking out at a pig farm (I blame you for making me do it, GAV) but, a bit of research into the team we faced on Saturday...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/burnley-fc/transfers/verein/1132/plus/?saison_id=2012&pos=&detailpos=#ath

Heaton Free

Darikwa - £599k

Duff - £350k

Keane - £1.79m (from under our noses!!)

Mee - Free/Undisclosed

Boyd - £2.6m (PL)

Jones - Free (allowed to go by Bowyer!!!)

Barton - Free

Arfield - Free

Vokes - £445k

Gray - £8.68m (PL)

Long (sub) - £980k

Other notables that Dyche has "wheeled and dealed*":

Shackell - £900k

Kacaniklic - Loan

Stewart - Loan

Reid - Free

Noble - Free

Kightly - Loan

Taylor - Free

Chalobah - Loan

Something tells me that Dyche would not use an embargo as an excuse...

So if Dyche can do it, why not somebody else? There is no logical reason to believe that sticking with Bowyer is the best option.

Off to have my second shower of the day to wash the @#/? off me...

*dealt

[sambo]

Just some of the language used on here, by one poster in particular, IMO shouldn't be allowed.. Venkyscum, slumdogs.. Why not say what you mean pal, p#kis..

What an odious post this is.

It's absolute garbage and completely ignorant of the fact that they're Indian.

Showing your true colours here.

[Gav]

I don't think we have average players. I think this side is good enough to compete for the play offs.

Steele is a good keeper.

Struggle at right back admittedly

3 good centre halves

Two good left backs

Centre mid, Evans and Akpan starting to form a partnership and Gutherie to come back in

Conway has more assists in the last year than anyone else in the league

Rhodes is the best goalscorer in the league

A manager would find a way to get the best out of this lot.

I couldn't disagree more, would anyone, Rhodes aside, get in the Derby side? Boro side? Hull side or burnley side?

Hardly any I'd wager, but we'll all have a different opinion on this I'm sure.

[Pedro]

I don't think we have average players. I think this side is good enough to compete for the play offs.

Steele is a good keeper.

Struggle at right back admittedly

3 good centre halves

Two good left backs

Centre mid, Evans and Akpan starting to form a partnership and Gutherie to come back in

Conway has more assists in the last year than anyone else in the league

Rhodes is the best goalscorer in the league

A manager would find a way to get the best out of this lot.

That's how I see it. Far from a poor side and full of potential.

[TeamGB-11]

Eddie how's signed shackell..

[Gav]

Why Dyche got Bumley promoted, did he have better players, better facilities, better financial resources than Bowyer has now?

Or did he simply have the managerial ability that Bowyer lacks?

Feel like I've been mucking out at a pig farm (I blame you for making me do it, GAV) but, a bit of research into the team we faced on Saturday...

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/burnley-fc/transfers/verein/1132/plus/?saison_id=2012&pos=&detailpos=#ath

Heaton Free

Darikwa - £599k

Duff - £350k

Keane - £1.79m (from under our noses!!)

Mee - Free/Undisclosed

Boyd - £2.6m (PL)

Jones - Free (allowed to go by Bowyer!!!)

Barton - Free

Arfield - Free

Vokes - £445k

Gray - £8.68m (PL)

Long (sub) - £980k

Other notables that Dyche has "wheeled and dealed*":

Shackell - £900k

Kacaniklic - Loan

Stewart - Loan

Reid - Free

Noble - Free

Kightly - Loan

Taylor - Free

Chalobah - Loan

Something tells me that Dyche would not use an embargo as an excuse...

So if Dyche can do it, why not somebody else? There is no logical reason to believe that sticking with Bowyer is the best option.

Off to have my second shower of the day to wash the @#/? off me...

*dealt

It's a compelling argument Stuart, but I think people forget much of what Dyche inherited was laid down by Howe, but the point is still valid I agree.

How many of our side would get in burnleys?

We are a club under an embargo, can't pay transfer fees, can't pay wages like Grey and Barton are on, so you've got work with the players we have at the club or other sides cast offs, we ain't going anywhere under such restrictions even if we had a Dyche or a MaCarthy.

Just my opinion, plenty will disagree I'm sure.

[JHRover]

Mick McCarthy has essentially had a transfer embargo for the 3 years he has been Ipswich manager. His total outlay on players in that time has been well under £1 million and he has brought in over £10 million through selling Cresswell and Mings.

So McCarthy has managed to overcome those issues, working to a small wage budget, yet took Ipswich to the play-offs last season.

The excuse that Rovers being under an embargo immediately means we are destined to struggle doesn't stack up. Clubs without embargoes have had very tight financial constraints which have been overcome. Russell Slade at Cardiff is another who has had to oversee major cutbacks at a club only getting gates of 15,000 or less. He hasn't spent the last 12 months moaning about it.

[Rover_Shaun]

If you repeat something often enough..........................

[Stuart]

It's a compelling argument Stuart, but I think people forget much of what Dyche inherited was laid down by Howe, but the point is still valid I agree.

How many of our side would get in burnleys?

We are a club under an embargo, can't pay transfer fees, can't pay wages like Grey and Barton are on, so you've got work with the players we have at the club or other sides cast offs, we ain't going anywhere under such restrictions even if we had a Dyche or a MaCarthy.

Just my opinion, plenty will disagree I'm sure.

Grey and Barton weren't in the side that got promoted - and were bought with PL funds. If I get the time or can hold my breath long enough I'll have a look at the cost of the side Dyche built. I'm guessing it was peanuts.

My point was that Dyche could cope, nay thrive, under the conditions Bowyer has had for the past two years - and even under embargo. I stand by that.

We also have an £8m-plus striker by the way.

I reckon that any of our players in a Dyche side would perform to levels far beyond those that they are now.

[Gav]

Mick McCarthy has essentially had a transfer embargo for the 3 years he has been Ipswich manager. His total outlay on players in that time has been well under £1 million and he has brought in over £10 million through selling Cresswell and Mings.

So McCarthy has managed to overcome those issues, working to a small wage budget, yet took Ipswich to the play-offs last season.

The excuse that Rovers being under an embargo immediately means we are destined to struggle doesn't stack up. Clubs without embargoes have had very tight financial constraints which have been overcome. Russell Slade at Cardiff is another who has had to oversee major cutbacks at a club only getting gates of 15,000 or less. He hasn't spent the last 12 months moaning about it.

With all due respect, Mick MaCarthy is a manager with 25yrs experience, is doing no better or no worse than 3yrs in Gary Bowyer. Both are championship clubs, one was hammered at Ewood a few weeks back in fact.

Gestede and Cairney brought in over 10m also.

It's just not a valid argument for me, MaCarthy would not get Blackburn Rovers promoted in the next few years if he was appointed tomorrow.

[JHRover]

Grey and Barton weren't in the side that got promoted - and were bought with PL funds. If I get the time or can hold my breath long enough I'll have a look at the cost of the side Dyche built. I'm guessing it was peanuts.

My point was that Dyche could cope, nay thrive, under the conditions Bowyer has had for the past two years - and even under embargo. I stand by that.

We also have an £8m-plus striker by the way.

I reckon that any of our players in a Dyche side would perform to levels far beyond those that they are now.

I think the idea from the club is that we are supposed to forget we still have Rhodes who is the most expensive player ever signed outside the top flight and who the owners have more than once rebuffed £10 million+ bids for.

I actually think it would have been preferable to some at the club to have got rid of Rhodes and then the financial excuse could be in overdrive.

The fact he's still here and the owners have turned down mega money in the process means that excuses about how much money other clubs spend are wearing thin.

20+ managers in this league would give their right arm to have a Rhodes at their disposal (also frequently overlooked that he has scored more goals than anyone else in England in the last 6 seasons and only Ighalo has scored more in 2015). 20+ managers would be fortunate to have owners who consistently reject huge bids for their best players.

[Gav]

Grey and Barton weren't in the side that got promoted - and were bought with PL funds. If I get the time or can hold my breath long enough I'll have a look at the cost of the side Dyche built. I'm guessing it was peanuts.

My point was that Dyche could cope, nay thrive, under the conditions Bowyer has had for the past two years - and even under embargo. I stand by that.

We also have an £8m-plus striker by the way.

I reckon that any of our players in a Dyche side would perform to levels far beyond those that they are now.

Stuart you make a very valid point on Dyche, I just don't agree that he'd get us promoted, I don't think anyone will whilst the club has owners like Venkys and Shaw at the helm.

[booth]

With all due respect, Mick MaCarthy is a manager with 25yrs experience, is doing no better or no worse than 3yrs in Gary Bowyer. Both are championship clubs, one was hammered at Ewood a few weeks back in fact.

Is getting his team into the playoffs and working on a smaller budget not doing a better job?

[JHRover]

With all due respect, Mick MaCarthy is a manager with 25yrs experience, is doing no better or no worse than 3yrs in Gary Bowyer. Both are championship clubs, one was hammered at Ewood a few weeks back in fact.

Gestede and Cairney brought in over 10m also.

It's just not a valid argument for me, MaCarthy would not get Blackburn Rovers promoted in the next few years if he was appointed tomorrow.

I think any manager that could get that Ipswich side to the play-offs would have a decent chance of doing the same at any other Championship club. Ipswich had a poor squad and next to no money. Maybe not quite an embargo but not far off.

McCarthy doesn't insert references to financial constraints and losing his best players into every interview he gives. He gets on with it, and despite being well beaten by ourselves last week Ipswich won't be anywhere near danger this season.

[Stuart]

Stuart you make a very valid point on Dyche, I just don't agree that he'd get us promoted, I don't think anyone will whilst the club has owners like Venkys and Shaw at the helm.

The problem is that this view is what is keeping the Rovers manager role occupied by somebody who is not up to it.

Being Rovers manager is a privileged position - or was until Vebkys decided it was no more important than the bog cleaners (with all due respect to bog cleaners - who do a better job than Kean ever did) - it needs to remain so - at least with the fans. We should be demanding better.

[Gav]

Is getting his team into the playoffs and working on a smaller budget not doing a better job?

What league are they in?

It depends how you gage doing a better job.

The problem is that this view is what is keeping the Rovers manager role occupied by somebody who is not up to it.

Being Rovers manager is a privileged position - or was until Vebkys decided it was no more important than the bog cleaners (with all due respect to bog cleaners - who do a better job than Kean ever did) - it needs to remain so - at least with the fans. We should be demanding better.

I've made no secret of the fact I'd replace him, but I don't expect major improvement.

[Amo]

Last I checked they are still rooted in league 2 where they've been for 3 seasons..

Pompey have been through the absolute mill, but finally they're seeing the green shoots of recovery. They're in the position where they can look forward instead of backwards, safe in the knowledge that the club is owned by those with its best interests at heart. How long before we can say the same?

[joey_big_nose]

To be completely honest Id say we largely have good enough players to get into the playoffs spots now, all we (absolutely crucially) need to add is a second quality goal scorer who can support Rhodes, and keep Guthrie, Taylor and Koita fit. Oh, and to start back at the start of the season so we can win those games we have stupidly lost.

Every position except maybe right back has a decent Championship player in it. Gaz has done well turning round the midfield (now competitive) and defence (now miserly) however we seem to have lost our ability to score goals despite creating decent numbers of chances which hugely undermines all of this good work as we saw on Saturday.

[Mattyblue]

To be completely honest Id say we largely have good enough players to get into the playoffs spots now, all we (absolutely crucially) need to add is a second quality goal scorer who can support Rhodes, and keep Guthrie, Taylor and Koita fit. Oh, and to start back at the start of the season so we can win those games we have stupidly lost.

Every position except maybe right back has a decent Championship player in it. Gaz has done well turning round the midfield (now competitive) and defence (now miserly) however we seem to have lost our ability to score goals despite creating decent numbers of chances which hugely undermines all of this good work as we saw on Saturday.

At Ewood maybe, we've been shipping plenty away.

[DE.]

I'm not convinced we're good enough to get into the playoffs. Rhodes aside we're an embarrassment in front of goal and capable of massive mistakes at the back which regularly cost us points and games. An overall good performance is not enough if players switch off at key moments. Injuries to either Rhodes or Conway (our only decent provider) absolutely sink us, which is not indicative of a successful team.

[JHRover]

At Ewood maybe, we've been shipping plenty away.

I've been researching our away form recently.

Our last clean sheet away in the league was at Reading on 11th April when we drew 0-0 (at the time Reading were on long winless home run). The previous match we won 3-0 at 10 man Leeds (which was our last away win).

This season in 6 away games at Huddersfield, Brighton, Hull, Fulham, QPR and MK Dons we have conceded 10 goals. We are yet to win.

Last season in 23 league away games we kept clean sheets in just 4 games (Fulham, Leeds, Reading & Bournemouth) and over 23 games conceded 31 goals. We won 6 away games in total.

The previous season over 23 league away games we kept clean sheets in just 4 games (Yeovil, QPR, Boro & Reading) and over 23 games conceded 41 goals. We won 7 away games in total.

Since we came down from the Premier League in 2012 over three and a third seasons we have won a grand total of 17 away games.

Since Bowyer became permanent manager we have won 13 away games in the process conceding 82 goals in 52 games.

Those are pretty awful statistics by any standard, and no matter how good your home form or what the perceived reasons are (disputed penalties etc.) they don't lie and this is the root cause of our difficulties.

We can't defend properly and we can't set up to win away games consistently.

[joey_big_nose]

At Ewood maybe, we've been shipping plenty away.

Fair point, but MK apart we've conceded average amounts of goals away (one or two a game) and looked defensively pretty good in my opinion. Much better than last year.

However all for naught if you can't score.

we can't set up to win away games consistently.

Or home games!

While our defending is not perfect we have looked much better on that frint since we moved to the pressing 442 both home and away.

Our far bigger issue is at the other end of the pitch imo.