[Archived] Brentford At Home 7.11.2015

[K-Hod]

Half of the battle in this league is hard work. If you've got some grafters with a little bit of craft (Lawrence) and someone who with service and slot it in the onion bag (Rhodes) then you give yourself a good chance.

Writing off this team as mid-table is just a cop-out when there really can't be any doubt that a better manager could get more out of this side. I was talking to someone at work about this, if Souness was our manager (or a proper motivator of a manager), Lawrence would have been terrified of their reaction after missing that chance against Burnley.

Settling for a draw yesterday is pathetic, and the mentality of a loser. Aim high and you do better, aim low and that's where you end up.

[DE.]

The league is bang average. It is full of very average players. It is the well - drilled teams with effort, organisation, belief and leadership that get towards the top end. Like (gulp) Burnley.

Very much correct. Our team may be average, but so are 80% of the teams in this division. It's the small gap in quality between the teams that makes this league so competitive, and why having a good manager is the difference between obscurity and a playoff/promotion push.

On one hand Bowyer's supporters laud him for his eye for a player, on the other they say we have a crap squad that nobody could get anything out of. Which one is it?

[K-Hod]

DE- your second paragraph is the message board equivalent of checkmate!

[AllRoverAsia]

Thank god for you Gav. You have just listed some bang average ability above.

We are short in the first 11 as well as squad. Apart from looking like Grace Jones, Akpan is not the answer either, missing Guthrie in there.

Think we could struggle to hold on to Lawrence, Valenica looking at him (presume that will be the Phil Neville/United link).

It's a modern football fan thing though, replace manager and a messiah will walk through the door. Short sighted naivety.

Thanks for that , gave me a much needed laugh........and he does

or you could try this spin......... ''replace a known very poor manager and a messiah or at least a competent manager may walk through the door''.........can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

[Speedie Dived]

Thanks for that , gave me a much needed laugh........and he does

I keep expecting him to run down the tunnel one day with a bomb on a track.

[MGAndy]

Aim high and you do better, aim low and that's where you end up.

+1

Leader / Manager urgently required to replace adequate coach.

[Speedie Dived]

On one hand Bowyer's supporters laud him for his eye for a player, on the other they say we have a crap squad that nobody could get anything out of. Which one is it?

He has certainly picked up some good players and some bad uns, like a lot of managers.

If you add Rudy and Cairney to our current squad and we had invested £5 million in the summer then I would expect that squad to be challenging. But we became weaker in the summer due to the embargo.

[tomphil]

The players here aren't stupid a lot of them know they are on a good number. If a new guy came in the easy going spirit, days off etc may be a thing of the past as well as some places in the team or even at the club. That's why whenever the pressure is beginning to gather on their fav teacher they put a serious shift or two in. This kind of thing happens all over football, players soon cotton on how to play an easy going manager.

Gaz can't help who he is and he just doesn't have it in him to drill that winning mentality in them, just enough in his eyes IS enough and they know this. You only have to listen to his interview post match yesterday to get an idea of how it works at Brockhall. Leadership blatantly missing yesterday again on the pitch and sidelines.

[DE.]

He has certainly picked up some good players and some bad uns, like a lot of managers.

If you add Rudy and Cairney to our current squad and we had invested £5 million in the summer then I would expect that squad to be challenging. But we became weaker in the summer due to the embargo.

A shame he didn't use the years when we were out of an embargo to build a better balanced squad and challenge properly, isn't it? Instead we spent about 3 hours in 6th at one point and that was it.

[chaddyrovers]

+1

Leader / Manager urgently required to replace adequate coach.

Any names?

Jokanovic

Sherwood?

Holloway?

Pearson?

Lambert?

JFH?

What you/people thoughts on those names I've mention?

[Speedie Dived]

A shame he didn't use the years when we were out of an embargo to build a better balanced squad and challenge properly, isn't it? Instead we spent about 3 hours in 6th at one point and that was it.

Was a good three hours :-)

Yeah he without doubt could have done better in some areas, but he was certainly hindered by paying off all and sundry.

Any manager would have got a better squad if they had got the Berg comp, Murphy, Ethutu, Robinson and Best payouts.

That's probably £10 million that didn't go to the team. Not a point to defend Bowyer, just a glaring one that the squad would be stronger if anyone had that money and not throw down the drain.

[Pedro]

I was going to leave you alone but once again you have astounded me. The league is very very difficult to get out of, that is recognised by a lot in the game.

The owners should have medium to long term plans, we have zero. Due to their excellent stewardship we cannot spend £1 on a player. But let's gloss over that and blame everything on Bowyer not bringing on Koita.

No one was crying about them not coming. The point was they cannot be arsed to come, which shows they cannot be arsed with us.

But I am sure everything will be fine by getting Bowyer out.

It is easy to astound a fool.

Please don't leave me alone, instead, actually address some of the questions and points I made to you (the ones you edited down into something entirely differently from what I said, so you could feel good about yourself).

The league is average. Brighton are ordinary and organised. Derby are ordinary but organised. Burnley are ordinary but organised. I can't be bothered checking the league table to see who is up there too - but I can imagine it follows suit. Last year, Norwich were ordinary but gradually became organised, same as Ipswich, Brentford etc. None of those teams were littered with particularly good players - but they stepped on the pitch and chased down the space, hustled and bustled, made the opposition make mistakes - the same approach we finally did against Ipswich this season. After a two year wait. "The standards that we set ourselves" as good old Gaz likes to churn out are us retreating, passing sideways, reacting to the opposition, coasting through a game until we go behind, barely ever getting out of first gear through fear of conceding. Even by playing like that, we still conceded many.

If you don't agree, fine, many more whose opinion I value more will. I'm certainly not after getting you on board to my way of thinking because you clearly see the world your way but please don't embarrass yourself through editing my opinion into something it isn't though.

I'm not a fan of long posts and I've tried my best to spell out my view (to which you spin) - if you don't agree that's awesome and do what I'm really struggling to currently do - enjoy the football and being a Rovers fan.

[AllRoverAsia]

A shame he didn't use the years when we were out of an embargo to build a better balanced squad and challenge properly, isn't it? Instead we spent about 3 hours in 6th at one point and that was it.

2013-2014 Season was Bowyer's chance and probably the only one he'll have to get us into the play-offs or higher.

He didn't have the spunk to do carry though and chickened out going for a point in home games. I remember what Robbo said post Yeovil about Bowyers tactics and team instructions.

[DE.]

Was a good three hours :-)

Yeah he without doubt could have done better in some areas, but he was certainly hindered by paying off all and sundry.

Any manager would have got a better squad if they had got the Berg comp, Murphy, Ethutu, Robinson and Best payouts.

That's probably £10 million that didn't go to the team. Not a point to defend Bowyer, just a glaring one that the squad would be stronger if anyone had that money and not throw down the drain.

Let's be honest, Bowyer would not have had that money regardless. Venky's have shown no indication they are willing to spend anything beyond the bare minimum on the team since the baldest one slithered out the door.

Teams have prospered on very small budgets. Look at Ipswich, Burnley, Bournemouth... having a lot of money to spend would be nice, but for most teams in the Championship this isn't a reality. Bowyer has a £8m striker at his disposal who basically guarantees you 20+ goals a year. He spent £1.5m on Shane Duffy (whoops), £1m on Ben Marshall, roughly £1m on Cairney and Evans, roughly £500k on Gestede. He's had a decent amount to spend before the embargo hit, and he's been allowed to bring in over 30 players during his reign whilst Venky's terminate contracts of players Bowyer doesn't want.

The embargo may be making things difficult now, but he had plenty of time to prepare for this and a fair amount of cash to do it with. It's fair to say he didn't do a great job of preparing us for life after embargo, and we're suffering now as a result.

[Pedro]

Very much correct. Our team may be average, but so are 80% of the teams in this division. It's the small gap in quality between the teams that makes this league so competitive, and why having a good manager is the difference between obscurity and a playoff/promotion push.

On one hand Bowyer's supporters laud him for his eye for a player, on the other they say we have a crap squad that nobody could get anything out of. Which one is it?

I could hug you.

[roverandout]

I was going to leave you alone but once again you have astounded me. The league is very very difficult to get out of, that is recognised by a lot in the game.

The owners should have medium to long term plans, we have zero. Due to their excellent stewardship we cannot spend £1 on a player. But let's gloss over that and blame everything on Bowyer not bringing on Koita.

No one was crying about them not coming. The point was they cannot be arsed to come, which shows they cannot be arsed with us.

But I am sure everything will be fine by getting Bowyer out.

Getting in a good manager would be a start, as it stands rovers are heading for another relegation

[broadsword]

The whole club is in a comfort zone. Most of all the manager, who quite probably won't get another managerial gig ever again, so he's milking this for all it's worth. He's playing this club just as well as Kean ever did.

The only thing that will pull the plug on this gravy train is relegation.

Despair.

[Speedie Dived]

It is easy to astound a fool.

Please don't leave me alone, instead, actually address some of the questions and points I made to you (the ones you edited down into something entirely differently from what I said, so you could feel good about yourself).

The league is average. Brighton are ordinary and organised. Derby are ordinary but organised. Burnley are ordinary but organised. I can't be bothered checking the league table to see who is up there too - but I can imagine it follows suit. Last year, Norwich were ordinary but gradually became organised, same as Ipswich, Brentford etc. None of those teams were littered with particularly good players - but they stepped on the pitch and chased down the space, hustled and bustled, made the opposition make mistakes - the same approach we finally did against Ipswich this season. After a two year wait. "The standards that we set ourselves" as good old Gaz likes to churn out are us retreating, passing sideways, reacting to the opposition, coasting through a game until we go behind, barely ever getting out of first gear through fear of conceding. Even by playing like that, we still conceded many.

If you don't agree, fine, many more whose opinion I value more will. I'm certainly not after getting you on board to my way of thinking because you clearly see the world your way but please don't embarrass yourself through editing my opinion into something it isn't though.

I'm not a fan of long posts and I've tried my best to spell out my view (to which you spin) - if you don't agree that's awesome and do what I'm really struggling to currently do - enjoy the football and being a Rovers fan.

You have just listed teams who have done well and said 'they are organised'.

They all have good players with some depth and good managers (better than ours).

The Championship is very hard to get out of.

[roverandout]

Any names?

Jokanovic

Sherwood?

Holloway?

Pearson?

Lambert?

JFH?

What you/people thoughts on those names I've mention?

Lambert every time

[tomphil]

I'd give JFH a shot as he fits the V's criteria in a way so it might be doable.

[Speedie Dived]

Let's be honest, Bowyer would not have had that money regardless. Venky's have shown no indication they are willing to spend anything beyond the bare minimum on the team since the baldest one slithered out the door.

Teams have prospered on very small budgets. Look at Ipswich, Burnley, Bournemouth... having a lot of money to spend would be nice, but for most teams in the Championship this isn't a reality. Bowyer has a £8m striker at his disposal who basically guarantees you 20+ goals a year. He spent £1.5m on Shane Duffy (whoops), £1m on Ben Marshall, roughly £1m on Cairney and Evans, roughly £500k on Gestede. He's had a decent amount to spend before the embargo hit, and he's been allowed to bring in over 30 players during his reign whilst Venky's terminate contracts of players Bowyer doesn't want.

The embargo may be making things difficult now, but he had plenty of time to prepare for this and a fair amount of cash to do it with. It's fair to say he didn't do a great job of preparing us for life after embargo, and we're suffering now as a result.

Yeah you are right that he probably wouldn't have had it.

Bournemouth didn't have a small budget but you are right the others did.

Yeah he has had a decent amount to spend and I would say he has done fairly decent with the players mentioned above. To push us onto the next level you need constant investment and that certainly stopped.

Be interested to see but I would hazard a guess that more has been brought in/paid off then we have spent in his entire tenure.

Whoever comes in next will face the same issues so will be interesting to judge.

I'd give JFH a shot as he fits the V's criteria in a way so it might be doable.

He would be my choice too. Can we pay compensation though? Not sure.

[DE.]

Yeah you are right that he probably wouldn't have had it.

Bournemouth didn't have a small budget but you are right the others did.

Yeah he has had a decent amount to spend and I would say he has done fairly decent with the players mentioned above. To push us onto the next level you need constant investment and that certainly stopped.

Be interested to see but I would hazard a guess that more has been brought in/paid off then we have spent in his entire tenure.

Whoever comes in next will face the same issues so will be interesting to judge.

What also needs to be remembered is that last season - when we were only under embargo for six months and sold no important players - we moved backwards under Bowyer. There was no reason to believe this season would be anything other than a disaster with a weaker squad, and 3 wins out of 17 suggests that is exactly what has happened.

[Speedie Dived]

What also needs to be remembered is that last season - when we were only under embargo for six months and sold no important players - we moved backwards under Bowyer. There was no reason to believe this season would be anything other than a disaster with a weaker squad, and 3 wins out of 17 suggests that is exactly what has happened.

Agree totally. This season was going to be tough and is proving to be so.

I would say the drawbridge was pulled up before the embargo, we were trying not to go into it. So even if you don't spend, a lot do and they leave you behind or go past you.

But you cannot argue with the fact we have gone from 7th to 16th currently under him. That is black and white.

[Gav]

A shame he didn't use the years when we were out of an embargo to build a better balanced squad and challenge properly, isn't it? Instead we spent about 3 hours in 6th at one point and that was it.

Bowyer has been in management for 3yrs, he brought in players that became available at the time for fee's, Marshall, Cairney, Gestede, Duffy, Evans, he's well in pocket on those alone.

What people don't seem to understand is the rest of the squad are free transfers, other sides cast offs, players that can hopefully do a job, most actually can't, thats why they're free transfers and have been shown the door by other clubs. Its a complete lottery shopping in the free transfer market, you may find a gem, you'll probably won't.

So with a manager thats got 3yrs experience, no budget, transfer embargo, an idiot as a boss and a section of the fanbase with unrealistic expectations I don't think the mans doing that badly.

[tomphil]

Isn't the recruitment of a manager exempt from the FFP rules or am I dreaming ?