[Archived] Brentford At Home 7.11.2015

[MGAndy]

Any names?

Jokanovic

Sherwood?

Holloway?

Pearson?

Lambert?

JFH?

What you/people thoughts on those names I've mention?

Personally...none of them.

Im fed up of the same old uninspiring dross of potential names.

How about :-

Capello

Di Matteo

Rogers

Curbishley

Laudrup

Is Klinsmann still managing USA?

http://www.thesackrace.com/job-centre

Once upon a time people would have laughed at the mere suggestion that Blackburn would hire Kenny Dalglish and win the PL.

[Speedie Dived]

Isn't the recruitment of a manager exempt from the FFP rules or am I dreaming ?

This is what I am not sure about? It will obviously go towards the amount we lose every year so we would have to sell another player to bring a gaffer in a job in.

[tomphil]

AndyW .

We have to discuss who's potentially gettable under these crackpots and their deluded ideas though. Forget what we actually want it has to be what they might be prepared to get.

This is what I am not sure about? It will obviously go towards the amount we lose every year so we would have to sell another player to bring a gaffer in a job in.

But I think there may be rules that allow owners to pay for it out of their own pockets although not 100% sure.

[Speedie Dived]

Bowyer has been in management for 3yrs, he brought in players that became available at the time for fee's, Marshall, Cairney, Gestede, Duffy, Evans, he's well in pocket on those alone.

What people don't seem to understand is the rest of the squad are free transfers, other sides cast offs, players that can hopefully do a job, most actually can't, thats why they're free transfers and have been shown the door by other clubs. Its a complete lottery shopping in the free transfer market, you may find a gem, you'll probably won't.

So with a manager thats got 3yrs experience, no budget, transfer embargo, an idiot as a boss and a section of the fanbase with unrealistic expectations I don't think the mans doing that badly.

I agree with this Gav but can also see he still has flaws and some big ones, not blinkered enough to see him as a messiah.

I would say he has performed well with the hindrance of the cretins in charge. To be expecting us to be challenging to go up now is just missing what our owners have done entirely.

[DE.]

Bowyer has been in management for 3yrs, he brought in players that became available at the time for fee's, Marshall, Cairney, Gestede, Duffy, Evans, he's well in pocket on those alone.

What people don't seem to understand is the rest of the squad are free transfers, other sides cast offs, players that can hopefully do a job, most actually can't, thats why they're free transfers and have been shown the door by other clubs. Its a complete lottery shopping in the free transfer market, you may find a gem, you'll probably won't.

So with a manager thats got 3yrs experience, no budget, transfer embargo, an idiot as a boss and a section of the fanbase with unrealistic expectations I don't think the mans doing that badly.

I'd actually agree that for his experience level he's not doing badly. Its unfortunate that the owners have never understood the need to have a manager, rather than a coach, in charge. If they did then maybe we would have been in with a shot of going back up during the last few seasons.

Now we're at the point where we're looking to survive rather than go up. That is not Bowyer's fault, but if we stick with him and his lack of experience we are only going in one direction. You could argue that under Venky's we're only going in one direction anyway, and I'd agree with that too, but Birmingham have a pretty crackpot owner too (in jail atm I think?) and appeared to be in total freefall before they hired a manager that turned them around.

At the very least, this is what we need to do. Will it bring long term success under Venky's? I very much doubt it. But it might keep our heads above water until they decide to leave.

[Speedie Dived]

AndyW .

We have to discuss who's potentially gettable under these crackpots and their deluded ideas though. Forget what we actually want it has to be what they might be prepared to get.

But I think there may be rules that allow owners to pay for it out of their own pockets although not 100% sure.

Well anything they have done on their own has ended disastrously.

They could appoint anyone.

[MGAndy]

AndyW .

We have to discuss who's potentially gettable under these crackpots and their deluded ideas though. Forget what we actually want it has to be what they might be prepared to get.

Agreed.

But lets not redefine / lower our expectations around these crackpots.

If they are going nowhere, then a serious and ambitious managerial recruiment would inspire the players, the fans, the town.

Why not?

Only a crackpot.... :-)

[Speedie Dived]

I'd actually agree that for his experience level he's not doing badly. Its unfortunate that the owners have never understood the need to have a manager, rather than a coach, in charge. If they did then maybe we would have been in with a shot of going back up during the last few seasons.

Now we're at the point where we're looking to survive rather than go up. That is not Bowyer's fault, but if we stick with him and his lack of experience we are only going in one direction. You could argue that under Venky's we're only going in one direction anyway, and I'd agree with that too, but Birmingham have a pretty crackpot owner too (in jail atm I think?) and appeared to be in total freefall before they hired a manager that turned them around.

At the very least, this is what we need to do. Will it bring long term success under Venky's? I very much doubt it. But it might keep our heads above water until they decide to leave.

Interestingly there are rumours that Rowett is not tied down to a contract and is set to leave.

The cretins were/are taking us to Div 1 whoever is in charge, we are probably two seasons away from it.

[JAL]

Bowyer has been in management for 3yrs, he brought in players that became available at the time for fee's, Marshall, Cairney, Gestede, Duffy, Evans, he's well in pocket on those alone.

What people don't seem to understand is the rest of the squad are free transfers, other sides cast offs, players that can hopefully do a job, most actually can't, thats why they're free transfers and have been shown the door by other clubs. Its a complete lottery shopping in the free transfer market, you may find a gem, you'll probably won't.

So with a manager thats got 3yrs experience, no budget, transfer embargo, an idiot as a boss and a section of the fanbase with unrealistic expectations I don't think the mans doing that badly.

Unrealistic expecitations Gav at home to Burnley and you think he's not doing too badly wish you could hear what I'm hearing in town.

[DE.]

Interestingly there are rumours that Rowett is not tied down to a contract and is set to leave.

The cretins were/are taking us to Div 1 whoever is in charge, we are probably two seasons away from it.

As it stands, I'd agree that if nothing changes we'll soon be relegated again. If Rhodes leaves we're almost certainly sunk, even if we get out of the embargo.

Our only hope is that Venky's leave at the end of the season, writing off their debts in the process and leaving us with an owner who has some clue about the game. It's an incredibly slim hope, but it's all we have now.

[Speedie Dived]

As it stands, I'd agree that if nothing changes we'll soon be relegated again. If Rhodes leaves we're almost certainly sunk, even if we get out of the embargo.

Our only hope is that Venky's leave at the end of the season, writing off their debts in the process and leaving us with an owner who has some clue about the game. It's an incredibly slim hope, but it's all we have now.

If Rhodes was to leave and we could invest the lot back into our team then I am convinced we would become a better all round team. But we all know that won't happen.

Can see it coming a mile off, whoever is in charge at the time of relegation will become public enemy number 1 and cretins will be ignored.

[MGAndy]

Bowyer has been in management for 3yrs, he brought in players that became available at the time for fee's, Marshall, Cairney, Gestede, Duffy, Evans, he's well in pocket on those alone.

What people don't seem to understand is the rest of the squad are free transfers, other sides cast offs, players that can hopefully do a job, most actually can't, thats why they're free transfers and have been shown the door by other clubs. Its a complete lottery shopping in the free transfer market, you may find a gem, you'll probably won't.

So with a manager thats got 3yrs experience, no budget, transfer embargo, an idiot as a boss and a section of the fanbase with unrealistic expectations I don't think the mans doing that badly.

Gav, you are completely correct... But

The fans expect more than this.

Or should I say we expect the owners to expect and strive for more than this.

I do.

You do.

[Hasta]

You have just listed teams who have done well and said 'they are organised'.

They all have good players with some depth and good managers (better than ours).

The Championship is very hard to get out of.

I accept that the Championship is very hard to get out of. However you would think in three full season, two of those with dual 20+ goal a season strikers, we would have at leat sniffed around the top 6 and getting in the play offs. We haven't.

Many sides appear poor in this league. It's very competitive but I don't think there's a huge gulf in quality like between the top and bottom of the Prem.

Koita should have come on, first instead of Delfonso and then secondly for Evans. However it's the whole negativity that gets me. A couple of times in the last 10/15 minutes we put a ball in the box and there was only Rhodes in there. It fizzed over his head and no-one else was within the 18 yard box. The whole set up and urgency of the team yesterday stank of a "Must Not Lose". Negative as ever.

I listed a couple of weeks ago a list of mistakes Bowyer has made, and keeps making, such as the decision to start the season with a rookie keeper. I can't be bothered digging it out again but it's him that makes that call - not the owners. Replacing the manager could, and I believe would, bring about a turnaround in results.

[DE.]

If Rhodes was to leave and we could invest the lot back into our team then I am convinced we would become a better all round team. But we all know that won't happen.

Can see it coming a mile off, whoever is in charge at the time of relegation will become public enemy number 1 and cretins will be ignored.

I think it'll be Bowyer. Once Desai likes a manager he seems to become untouchable, even when people at board level want him removed. Kean's position was completely untenable from December 2011, but Paul Hunt was sacked instead for recommending his removal. Kean ended up resigning as he was never going to be sacked.

I fear we're in a similar situation with Bowyer now. Unless he does something to @#/? off Desai, he's golden, and I believe he knows that.

[Speedie Dived]

I accept that the Championship is very hard to get out of. However you would think in three full season, two of those with dual 20+ goal a season strikers, we would have at leat sniffed around the top 6 and getting in the play offs. We haven't.

Many sides appear poor in this league. It's very competitive but I don't think there's a huge gulf in quality like between the top and bottom of the Prem.

Koita should have come on, first instead of Delfonso and then secondly for Evans. However it's the whole negativity that gets me. A couple of times in the last 10/15 minutes we put a ball in the box and there was only Rhodes in there. It fizzed over his head and no-one else was within the 18 yard box. The whole set up and urgency of the team yesterday stank of a "Must Not Lose". Negative as ever.

I listed a couple of weeks ago a list of mistakes Bowyer has made, and keeps making, such as the decision to start the season with a rookie keeper. I can't be bothered digging it out again but it's him that makes that call - not the owners. Replacing the manager could, and I believe would, bring about a turnaround in results.

I can see what you are saying about Koita coming on but he went with Delfy.

Both bang average players who will rarely affect a game but he went with Delfy.

If Koita had then come on for Evans that would have been suicidal.

[Stuart]

He has been poor since day 1. We don't have enough quality in 1-11, let alone in the squad.

That's just not true.

But even so. Striker or DM? He didn't even send up Duffy this time. Why? Because we had a point to lose rather than being a goal down chasing a point.

Proper managers chase three points - at least when they are there for the taking.

It's a 6-number lottery draw in this division and our non-manager isn't even buying a ticket, he's sticking the £1 in a jar every week. At the end of the season we might have enough saved up to buy a match ticket.

[Speedie Dived]

I think it'll be Bowyer. Once Desai likes a manager he seems to become untouchable, even when people at board level want him removed. Kean's position was completely untenable from December 2011, but Paul Hunt was sacked instead for recommending his removal. Kean ended up resigning as he was never going to be sacked.

I fear we're in a similar situation with Bowyer now. Unless he does something to @#/? off Desai, he's golden, and I believe he knows that.

Yeah you could be right but one thing is for sure, he doesn't deserve Kean like criticism. Which he is currently not getting to be fair.

New owners would bring a new broom and sweep everyone out with an acknowledgment that Bowyer has done a good job here for over 10 years.

[MGAndy]

I'd actually agree that for his experience level he's not doing badly. Its unfortunate that the owners have never understood the need to have a manager, rather than a coach, in charge. If they did then maybe we would have been in with a shot of going back up during the last few seasons.

Now we're at the point where we're looking to survive rather than go up. That is not Bowyer's fault, but if we stick with him and his lack of experience we are only going in one direction. You could argue that under Venky's we're only going in one direction anyway, and I'd agree with that too, but Birmingham have a pretty crackpot owner too (in jail atm I think?) and appeared to be in total freefall before they hired a manager that turned them around.

At the very least, this is what we need to do. Will it bring long term success under Venky's? I very much doubt it. But it might keep our heads above water until they decide to leave.

DE you are bob on.

First PL survival was acceptable Mr Kean

Failed.

Then Quick promotion was acceptable.

Failed.

Now Championship survival is acceptable.

This year we probably will...just.

The club and the acceptable expectations are going in one direction...

There are fans who choose to be "realistic" with reduced expectations

There are fans who still expect mid table premier league status as minimum.

Who are the crackpots?

[Speedie Dived]

That's just not true.

But even so. Striker or DM? He didn't even send up Duffy this time. Why? Because we had a point to lose rather than being a goal down chasing a point.

Proper managers chase three points - at least when they are there for the taking.

It's a 6-number lottery draw in this division and our non-manager isn't even buying a ticket, he's sticking the £1 in a jar every week. At the end of the season we might have enough saved up to buy a match ticket.

He brought on Delfouneso, a striker (using the term loosely)

Mentioned earlier but Duffy isn't very effective in an attacking sense. But get your point about sending a lump forward.

[Hasta]

If Koita had then come on for Evans that would have been suicidal.

Depends whether you value a win and two defeats more than 2 draws and a defeat. Personally I prefer the win.

[Speedie Dived]

Depends whether you value a win and two defeats more than 2 draws and a defeat. Personally I prefer the win.

If it was Rudy then I would say yes, whip the midfielder and go for broke. But not for Koita.

And if he had gone for it and we had lost he would have been murdered on here. People wouldn't have said 'fair play we lost but he went for it'

[Hasta]

If it was Rudy then I would say yes, whip the midfielder and go for broke. But not for Koita.

And if he had gone for it and we had lost he would have been murdered on here. People wouldn't have said 'fair play we lost but he went for it'

So if we had Rudy we would have gone for the win but as we didn't we stuck with a draw !?!

Had we been 1 goal behind, do you reckon he would have made the same substitution in the 92nd minute?

[Speedie Dived]

So if we had Rudy we would have gone for the win but as we didn't we stuck with a draw !?!

Had we been 1 goal behind, do you reckon he would have made the same substitution in the 92nd minute?

Yeah I am saying bringing Koita on would have weakened the team too much for the risk of us scoring.

We would have probably had to defend more than attack.

Not sure only he will know that.

[MGAndy]

Depends whether you value a win and two defeats more than 2 draws and a defeat. Personally I prefer the win.

This is a trick question ?

2 draws = 2 points

1 win = 3 points

Team with most points gets promoted.

Yes it must be a trick question...

Go on... ;-)

[Pedro]

You have just listed teams who have done well and said 'they are organised'.

They all have good players with some depth and good managers (better than ours).

The Championship is very hard to get out of.

I don't believe they have depth and I desperately want a good manager who will get the best out of what we have. That's the point I've been trying to hammer - that i think that is Bowyer's biggest failing. I never said it would guarantee promotion, just that we need someone to actually get us up there amongst those teams - I think during his entire tenure we have spent a day or something in a play off position haven't we? Not nearly good enough when you had two 20 goals + strikers at your disposal.

It is hard to get out of the league, but I believe we can do it with a better manager. I also don't think that it's a league that you need to buy your way out of, more a case of belief, effort and organisation. Elements that I don't think he instills into our team ethic and countless abject performances and excuses evidence.

I certainly feel Bowyer has had enough of an opportunity to prove that he is the man to take us forward but we're miles off and over a third into the season we are flirting with the bottom three, on merit.

I understand the fear involved for those who are against a change of manager - the last truly decent appointment was in 2008. But the flip side, didn't this same board appoint Bowyer and get that right for the short/medium term of the club? We need to see what they are made of now and they need to show some brains, balls and belief in regards to the future of Blackburn Rovers.