[Archived] Brentford At Home 7.11.2015

[Speedie Dived]

I have to disagree with you.

As has been told to me more than once; football is 90% physical and 10% mental. However, the 10% controls the 90%. Managers are able to work with that 10% and get the best out of players.

Yes, footballers can under perform, but there isn't a massive talent gap between most footballers. That's why you often see promoted sides doing well, and conversely relegated sides doing poorly. It's also why the manager is first to go, and it's not because the club can't get rid of all the players.

The 90%/10% is obviously in your opinion, it's not a fact.

Have to disagree on the talent gap. It's big between the Premier League and Championship, it's one of the most over used cliches in football but lots of people in football comment on how you get punished in the Premier League for mistakes and chances taken.

[Stuart]

I think we are now seeing the consequences of selling Gestede. Rhodes is often marked out of the game and that gave space for Gestede to exploit. Which in turn helped Rhodes because it split the defenders.

He looks better when Lawrence is playing higher up the field, like he was at Leeds in the first half. But, as always, Bowyer sets up to nullify the opposition rather than to beat them.

[Gav]

Gestede was always going to be sold.

Sadly in his case I don't think we had much of a choice, he'd have sulked, refused to play or generally upset the apple cart, but your point is still valid.

I didn't go against Brentford but the general consensus was we created nothing, he's not going to score if we don't give him the supply.

[J*B]

In modern football you cannot deny players like Gestede the opportunity to move up a league. He would have got an increased contract, a signing on fee and the opportunity to play in the Prem, if we would have forced him to stay he would have kicked up an almighty fuss and the players would have agreed with him.

[47er]

I think we are now seeing the consequences of selling Gestede. Rhodes is often marked out of the game and that gave space for Gestede to exploit. Which in turn helped Rhodes because it split the defenders.

He looks better when Lawrence is playing higher up the field, like he was at Leeds in the first half. But, as always, Bowyer sets up to nullify the opposition rather than to beat them.

Well if Kamy is right, Bower's job is to at least keep us in this division, buy players cheap and sell them at a profit not to get us promoted.

That would be a bonus but is not essential to his primary task. That would explain why there are so many draws and he rarely 'goes for it". In fact, he only seems to attack after we have had some bad results. Then we get a win and he reverts to type.

When I stated this months ago, Parson responded that Rovers have always been a selling club and that we were simply returning to the norm. I hope most others can now see that there is nothing normal about this at all.

If fans want this farce to continue, its easy-----don't protest and keep turning up.

[JBiz]

That would be a bonus but is not essential to his primary task. That would explain why there are so many draws and he rarely 'goes for it". In fact, he only seems to attack after we have had some bad results. Then we get a win and he reverts to type.

When I stated this months ago, Parson responded that Rovers have always been a selling club and that we were simply returning to the norm. I hope most others can now see that there is nothing normal about this at all.

If fans want this farce to continue, its easy-----don't protest and keep turning up.

Trying to post less because I'm sick to death of threads (much like the u21 and half st) turning into just @#/? takes of the club, posters seem to lack any sense of pride!

In terms of the reply- 47er, if we had normal owners, or non-billionaires, how else would the bills be paid?

Tickets? No, because a wage bill based in that would be league 1/2 level.

TV revenue? Nope because we earn nothing for this league.

Investment? Without wealthy fans, this seems impossible.

Whilst I find certain aspects of this reality quite galling, we need to buy and sell at a profit, as a club!

That's life. It was life under JW and will be reality again.

If you think the droves of fans who aren't buying tickets or STs are the answer! Then I must beg to argue. If we have any less support with no Venkys...we will be screwed.

Let me reiterate- screwed as in REALLY screwed, not mid table in the second tier.

[den]

Trying to post less because I'm sick to death of threads (much like the u21 and half st) turning into just @#/? takes of the club, posters seem to lack any sense of pride!

In terms of the reply- 47er, if we had normal owners, or non-billionaires, how else would the bills be paid?

Tickets? No, because a wage bill based in that would be league 1/2 level.

TV revenue? Nope because we earn nothing for this league.

Investment? Without wealthy fans, this seems impossible.

Whilst I find certain aspects of this reality quite galling, we need to buy and sell at a profit, as a club!

That's life. It was life under JW and will be reality again.

If you think the droves of fans who aren't buying tickets or STs are the answer! Then I must beg to argue. If we have any less support with no Venkys...we will be screwed.

Let me reiterate- screwed as in REALLY screwed, not mid table in the second tier.

All because we appointed a manager who couldn't get us up.

[JBiz]

All because we appointed a manager who couldn't get us up.

Thanks for posting an example of why short memory fans are almost impossible to discuss football with.

If you remember correctly Den, we wouldn't be in this mess if JWs formula hadn't been messed with.

[Amo]

From 2013-2015, what has Bowyer had to cope with that any other manager couldn't have done with improved results?

[JBiz]

From 2013-2015, what has Bowyer had to cope with that any other manager couldn't have done with improved results?

I don't recall ever saying that Topman so I'm not sure why I'd even need to justify it?

What have Venkys ever done to make you think that sacking the manager is the solution to all the problems?

[mustard]

I don't recall ever saying that Topman so I'm not sure why I'd even need to justify it?

What have Venkys ever done to make you think that sacking the manager is the solution to all the problems?

And what has Bowyer done to make you think that sticking with him is the solution to all our problems?

You see how we could go round and round in circles. Bowyer isn't good enough to achieve what is necessary for this club to survive. On to the next one.

[JBiz]

And what has Bowyer done to make you think that sticking with him is the solution to all our problems?

You see how we could go round and round in circles. Bowyer isn't good enough to achieve what is necessary for this club to survive. On to the next one.

For this club to survive? Can I borrow your crystal ball because at the current time I didn't think any fan knew the long term direction and aim?

Are you so assured in mercermans guess that they are on the way out? (Which has a rolling end point dated 2012-2020) I personally don't know if they intend to stop paying losses and claim the money back through capital assets.

What seems to be wasted on many of our fans, the next move could be critical in terms of the next 20 years. If you'd quite happily gamble that on a family who seem to think ignoring us is the best way forward, keep chirping on about how changing the manager is 100% the crux of debate.

If you'd rather see someone of the JW ilk give some sort of reassurance about direction as a priority- come sit in my quiet corner.

GB or not GB, there are things that need to be fixed. Ignore them and focus on one aspect at your peril.

[K-Hod]

Hypothetically (of course) Joe- if Shaw got on the blower to his mate Moyes, then brought Moyes, or a more experience man in as manager, don't you think we'd improve on the pitch?

For me, we'd tighten up at the back, and be harder to beat for starters. The players would be terrified of failure, based on what I've seen on the pitch, that's what they need.

'A rocket up 'em' as my Grandma would have said....

[mustard]

For this club to survive? Can I borrow your crystal ball because at the current time I didn't think any fan knew the long term direction and aim?

Are you so assured in mercermans guess that they are on the way out? (Which has a rolling end point dated 2012-2020) I personally don't know if they intend to stop paying losses and claim the money back through capital assets.

What seems to be wasted on many of our fans, the next move could be critical in terms of the next 20 years. If you'd quite happily gamble that on a family who seem to think ignoring us is the best way forward, keep chirping on about how changing the manager is 100% the crux of debate.

If you'd rather see someone of the JW ilk give some sort of reassurance about direction as a priority- come sit in my quiet corner.

GB or not GB, there are things that need to be fixed. Ignore them and focus on one aspect at your peril.

With debts mounting every single year, do you not think it's worrying? Venky's are hardly giving much indication that they're committed to funding us in the long-term future and with every passing month, things become more uncertain.

The more our debts mount up, the more chance there is of Brockhall/Ewood being sold off, the greater threat of administration and the decreasing likelihood that any investor/consortium would touch us with a barge pole.

We can't oust the Venky's, we can't push for some group of businessmen to buy the club. There is virtually no chance of us solving the problems in our ownership anytime soon. However, the value of a talented manager must not be underestimated. The decision to stick with Bowyer could also be critical for the next 20 years. He's not as safe a pair of hands as some make out and there is absolutely nothing to suggest we are guaranteed to stay in this league under his stewardship.

One lucky season under a talented manager could solve a number of our problems and secure our financial future for a little while. Perseverance with Bowyer, a manager who the vast majority of our fans acknowledge is not good enough to even get us in the play-offs, never mind promoted, is now damaging the club IMO. All about risk vs reward. The risk of sticking with GB is high yet potential rewards are near zero. Gambling on a new manager will be riskier but at least there is a heck of a lot more potential for reward.

[JBiz]

Hypothetically (of course) Joe- if Shaw got on the blower to his mate Moyes, then brought Moyes, or a more experience man in as manager, don't you think we'd improve on the pitch?

For me, we'd tighten up at the back, and be harder to beat for starters. The players would be terrified of failure, based on what I've seen on the pitch, that's what they need.

'A rocket up 'em' as my Grandma would have said....

I don't think the problem this season necessarily has been defending. Individual errors perhaps, but consistent performers are scarce at the age of our potentially strongest back four so I'd think Moyes or anyone would want a new full back and centre back to guarantee premier league worthy levels.

In terms of creativity and impact on passing games - hell yes I think an experienced manager of Moyes ilk would improve us - much like any other of the same proven nature. I'd take Holloway over him though judging how he did with the Oystons (based on where they've ended up) as owners- maybe he thrives in more ridiculous situations...

Do I see Moyes or any other manager of that experienced nature taking the reigns? No. Whilst unfortunate, it's a reality that's sank in due to the list of ridiculous decisions made previous.

[Amo]

I don't recall ever saying that Topman so I'm not sure why I'd even need to justify it?

You have peddled the myth that Bowyer has worked under extenuating circumstances.

Bowyer has been able to completely overhaul the squad, offload the deadwood, and personalize the backroom team right down to youth level. He hasn't had any of the boardroom antics that predated his appointment and the goodwill from 'not being Kean' has bought him time with the fans.

What have Venkys ever done to make you think that sacking the manager is the solution to all the problems?

That would depend on who was doing the recruiting, but in any event, it won't stop me from acknowledging that Bowyer isn't the man to take the club forward.

[Mattyblue]

To be fair to JBizzle, I don't think he says he rates Bowyer or that he thinks he's had it particulary tough, but that Venky's will 'probably pick someone as bad/worse'.

I've heard a similar refrain from quite a few people on matchdays (though there was a palpable change of atmosphere on Saturday), but surely if we are looking at it as a Risk versus Reward scenario, we need to bite the bullet at some point soon, as we are currently just not winning enough to avoid relegation being a real possibilty.

[DE.]

Views are different across the fanbase as to when the right time to pull the trigger on Bowyer would be. Under normal circumstances I think almost everybody would be saying enough is enough, but with Venky's in charge of finding a successor I can completely understand the fear of who comes next.

Parson was probably at the most extreme end of the scale, in saying that he'd want us marooned in the relegation zone and out of touch with the pack before making the call to change. Unfortunately I get the feeling Desai is thinking along similar lines, and is basically happy as long as we're in the division. Shebby's tweet from a few weeks ago certainly suggests that, and he still has contact with Venky's so sadly he's probably the most reliable source on this situation.

[Leonard Venkhater]

All because we appointed a manager who couldn't get us up.

....again!

[Stuart]

Trying to post less because I'm sick to death of threads (much like the u21 and half st) turning into just @#/? takes of the club, posters seem to lack any sense of pride!

I can't believe you are trying to bring pride into it! Venkys stole our Pride of Lancashire status and Bowyer right good gave away our bragging rights against that lot.

And both remain in situ, laughing at us (under our rocks).

There's not a lot left at the club to be proud of. Apart for our fans - who have stuck around throughout this pantomime - and our history - which is being dragged along the ground - we only have shame and frustration.

We are a club without a leader, on or off the field, and without a visible plan of any sort (certainly not one that involves football).

Pride you say?

[JBiz]

I guess we'll find out sooner rather than later!

[den]

I guess we'll find out sooner rather than later!

A bit of advice for you JB. Wait til the next mans appointed, whinge like hell about him, tell everyone he's not good enough and eventually you'll be able to tell everyone you were right all along. That's an easier route than you've just gone down.

[koi]

Moyes assistant Billy Mckinlay also sacked, wouldn't put it past Venky's to go for him..

[JBiz]

A bit of advice for you JB. Wait til the next mans appointed, whinge like hell about him, tell everyone he's not good enough and eventually you'll be able to tell everyone you were right all along. That's an easier route than you've just gone down.

Makes no sense. Like any reasonable person- the next man will get judged on the scenario.