[Archived] Sheffield Wednesday Preview

[arbitro]

Hooper scored 19 in 35 in this division for Scunthorpe, which was more than Andy Carroll also managed in this league that season for Newcastle. He also scored 7 in 19 for Celtic in Europe, going by wiki, which is pretty respectable.

He's a good player, it just didn't work out for him at Norwich.

Is he a £32k a week player? That was my point.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Both central defenders had excellent games. An individual error from each (leading to a goal) doesn't change that.

.

Errm, I think it does, Mike! An excellent game would have been to play as they did but without the two errors. I would have said they played very well, despite at one point, Hanley collecting the ball on the halfway line and, under no pressure, hoofing the ball sideways into the Riverside. Not one person around me commented on it, just highlights how far standards have fallen.

At this level, I think both central defenders are fine and will hopefully improve with a little guidance under the new regime.

[RevidgeBlue]

Errm, I think it does, Mike! An excellent game would have been to play as they did but without the two errors. I would have said they played very well, despite at one point, Hanley collecting the ball on the halfway line and, under no pressure, hoofing the ball sideways into the Riverside. Not one person around me commented on it, just highlights how far standards have fallen.

At this level, I think both central defenders are fine and will hopefully improve with a little guidance under the new regime.

Thought that was Duffy CLB. I couldn't believe what I was watching. I also think assessments of him being "outstanding" are over egging the pudding a bit, I thought defensively he was ok nothing more.

In attack he ought to be barred from going forward. He's like the opposition's 12th defender guaranteeing them a goal kick every time.

Oops edit: Don't recall one into the Riverside but Duffy did exactly the same thing into the JW second half. Maybe they did one each.

[Neal]

How do you explain Duffy's ineffective challenge for Wednesdays first goal ?

Coming on top of last week's failed attempt for Preston North Ends goal.

I explain it like this: He isn't perfect, hence he's playing in the championship and not for Everton (who are also not perfect at defending).

Jesus christ.

[RevidgeBlue]

As a side issue the pitch is in magnificent condition, best I've seen it, it took an almighty battering off the weather on Saturday and was still playing like new. In some seasons gone by we'd have been in danger of the game being called off.

At least expenditure laid out in that respect appears to be money well spent.

[JAL]

Hellfire JAL, you don't half overdo your criticism at times. Both central defenders had excellent games. An individual error from each (leading to a goal) doesn't change that.

He's a cb, not the anti-christ.

Let's hope Shane Duffy can show some improvement from now on.

[Mike E]

Let's hope Shane Duffy can show some improvement from now on.

He's shown huge improvement (as has Hanley) since PL came in! I agree, be great for him to improve further but he's played very well the last couple of games imo.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Errm, I think it does, Mike! An excellent game would have been to play as they did but without the two errors. I would have said they played very well, despite at one point, Hanley collecting the ball on the halfway line and, under no pressure, hoofing the ball sideways into the Riverside. Not one person around me commented on it, just highlights how far standards have fallen.

At this level, I think both central defenders are fine and will hopefully improve with a little guidance under the new regime.

In the four promotion teams you and I have seen, we had 2 or even 3 really strong, commanding players in the GK/CH/CH spots:

Sir Roger, Hawkins, Waddington

Arnold, Keeley, Faz

Mimms, Hendry, Moran

Brad, Berg, Short

The current three are all miles off in comparison, so the new regime has a lot of work to do.

[Claytons Left Boot]

In the four promotion teams you and I have seen, we had 2 or even 3 really strong, commanding players in the GK/CH/CH spots:

Sir Roger, Hawkins, Waddington

Arnold, Keeley, Faz

Mimms, Hendry, Moran

Brad, Berg, Short

The current three are all miles off in comparison, so the new regime has a lot of work to do.

You're correct there, John. Each one of those twelve players is not just better, but far better, than their present day counterparts.

I mentioned in another thread recently that in our 91-92 promotion side, we had Mimms, Hendry, Moran and players like Garner, Speedie, Sellars, Dobson, Livingstone, Cowans and Newell. Plus others. Other than Rhodes (and that is up for debate) not one of our current crop is on a par with any of them. Yes, standards have fallen but, even so, it shows just what a job PL & Co will have on their hands.

[JAL]

[JAL]

Edit?

[yoda]

Edit?

Has the MB crashed

[LewisF]

Has the MB crashed

going mad

[Mike E]

What the...

[yoda]

What the...

Exactly

[Pedro]

Wasn't that after Hanley let it bounce though? I stand to be corrected. But if it was then it could be fair to say he probably expected his centre half partner to clear the danger. When he didn't he had to make a challenge he shouldnt have to have make.

I watched that goal and my immediate instinct was that Hanley should have prevented it.

My sentiments too. Whoever was at fault was the defender right in the corner of the box who let it bounce. It was a simple ball to deal with but he made a hash of it. I'm certain it was Grant but haven't watched it back.

[yoda's brother]

excellent is a word bandied about far too often on here.

IMO

[Amo]

You have to be able to defend for 90+ minutes. Hanley and Duffy may have improved in recent months but you get the impression there's always a mistake in them. Maybe Lambert will be able to drill that out of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have a new-look pairing by the summer.

[Pedro]

You have to be able to defend for 90+ minutes. Hanley and Duffy may have improved in recent months but you get the impression there's always a mistake in them. Maybe Lambert will be able to drill that out of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if we have a new-look pairing by the summer.

Nelsen would make two, maybe three bad mistakes a season. Hanley has improved massively (he had a mistake in him a match when alongside Dann) but he drops a clanger every few games. They just need to do the basics very well and clear their lines. I don't think Duffy is worthy of any particular plaudits this season other than he looks much more 'steady'. Duffy and Hanley were an exceptionally poor partnership last season but they finally looked to be gelling now.

They'll have to be much more consistent to get an 'excellent' off me but they are certainly going in the right direction.

[patrickvalery]

When I consider how well Duffy played against Swansea last season I am encouraged that there's a player in there. And if that kind of performance can be extracted week in week out then he'll do just fine at this level. Some players even make top flight careers by being that brave and heroic player. You know the sort, the ones who leave a bit on their man, winning every header and generally clear their lines but ultimately give the ball back to the opposition.

A real problem for me is we seem to have two centre halves who want to be that exact type of player. When it goes wrong it invariably goes very wrong. A good centre half pairing needs a daft as a brush one who's willing to knock himself out rather than concede a throw in. And one who has the savvy to drop off and sweep up anything which beats the neanderthal. But also commands the whole back four, tells them when to hold, when to get out etc...

Where I have a problem with some of the criticism Duffy and Hanley get is the level of expectation. Football fans across the board see the advantage of the likes of John Stones or Chris Smalling or Rio ferdinand. Yeah it's lovely to see a centre half capable of bring the ball out of the defence or never having to make a sliding tackle because their positioning is so adept. But these types are so rare and move for fortunes. Our two are OK for this level and with some good coaching we could potentially have the makings of a good partnership there. If one (I'm thinking Hanley) can be taught to use his head metaphorically rather than literally, then it could look a good unit.

But it'll have to be learned sooner rather than later. Because we have a more cultured replacement in Killgalon waiting in the wings. Sadly he's the wrong side of thirty and I guess it's prudent to look to the longer term.

[47er]

Centre-backs improve with age though and tend to have a very long career if they can avoid serious injuries.

Kevin Moran(one of my all-time heroes) retired at the age of 37, still as good as ever and with the Club wanting him to continue.

So, hope for Duffy and Hanley to learn what's needed and maximise their talent.

Big Col was very raw when he first came, didn't cut it in the First Div with City but played a blinder when he returned to us.

On the same basis, Kilgallon should not be written off because he is over 30.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

A large proportion of the effectiveness of defenders is about things other than how good they are. Take us in 04/05 under Hughes. Fighting against relegation all season and conceded less than Everton who finished 4th, with hardly stellar defenders such as Todd, Matter and Johannsen. Because we had a good manager and played a defensive system. Mokoena in front of the defence, asking Dickov to endlessly chase lost causes up front.

Our fans seem to be becoming less tolerant of defensive, percentage football by the year. Well it's very difficult to have the best of both worlds.

[Blueandwhitemike]

I think the two lads we have are definitely improving, and not just under Lambert. They will make mistakes but they have been fewer and further between this season so I think we should stick with these two. I think we all usually look back in time with rose tinted glasses, Moran and Hendry were very good but not perfect, and CLB Tony Dobson? Do you really think him or Stevie Livingstone (who i loved as he was always a trier) would get in our team now?

Duffy must be top of the chances list in the division, if he ever figures out how to head properly he could rival strikers with his goal return. What should be noted is that he does very well to get to the ball in the first place.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I think Livingstone and Dobson would probably get into this team, certainly if we played two up front Livingstone would get in.

[K-Hod]

It's interesting seeing all the comparisons between this team and all the other promotion winning teams, I'd say people are right in the main, they aren't as good.

Fortunately though, we don't need to worry TOO MUCH about that as we won't be playing them! We need to worry about our competition in this league right here, right now for me. Whilst I don't expect us to do much this season, fundamentally a game of football is only ever 11 men vs 11 men, anything can happen!!