[Archived] Rovers V Reading Sun 20Th Dec

[Ribble Rover]

Now back to the game, hopefully Lambert will learn from this poor performance and set us up to be more attacking. Maybe more 4-4-1-1 with Lawrence in the hole

I think he'll persevere with Koita. History shows that PL likes a big strong quick forward by his signings like Benteke in past years. I expect JR to go this window and we replace with a couple of quality forwards. His last 2/3 performances for me have been lazy and quiet.

[RevidgeBlue]

Listening to some comments on here you'd have thought we were flying under GB not hovering precariously above the relegation zone.

Strikes me that after the new manager honeymoon period many of the side are wistfully hankering back to a return to the cushy life under good old Gaz. The Wednesday and Forest games would tend to indicate the players are as yet unwilling or unable to put the sort of high tempo shift Lambert is after for 90 mins instead of the usual 30 or 45 mind we witnessed under Gaz.

Rhodes' seeming loss of enthusiasm is the only head scratcher as he was probably the only consistently good performer under GB.

All that said it's only one game we've lost, and a couple of back to back wins and we're right back in the shake up so I hope that's the message PL is trying to get the players to take on board.

[Tom]

There were some VERY embarrassing comments when Bowyer was here. Someone even compared Lambert's arrival to the time Dalglish arrived. That was embarrassing. Performances have been poor since Lambert arrived...defensive, negative football. Nowt wrong with that if he keeps getting results but he's had an easy start as far as the oppo are concerned. Let's see how he does against decent oppo before we hail him as the new Messiah. He's getting less out the players than Bowyer did at present.

Looking forward to the 'fast, attacking football' he promised though!

I'd say you pretty much just proved his point with this post.

You can barely hide your glee - ironic considering it's what you aimed at those who could see Bowyers many failings.

Bowyers sacking was long coming and I'm relieved it finally happened - I desperately hope Lambert is a success and on paper it's a brilliant appointment but as I said at the time nothing is guaranteed in football, he's inherited a team with no drive, poor fitness and on the brink of a relegation battle, it's a tough task for anyone.

[JBiz]

This current squad doesn't suit Lambert's style and tactics

After 1 loss and less than 10 games you say this? Come on, it's still early days

Some absolutely embarrassing comments about our new manager, proving that people will say anything to protect Bowyer.

Where?

Only thing I find embarrassing is how suddenly after 1 defeat, the season is over, pl can't work with such poor players with broken mentalities, GB was the second coming of satan and still nobody can answer the question about suspensions!

Just keep willy waving instead lads.

[Neal]

Funny how the sh*t hits the fan after his first defeat... We were beaten by a wonder goal!

Fine, football hasn't picked much but just shows how bloody mediocre/poor Bowyer had made us but we knew that before he was sacked.

The only way PL is going to learn who's upto it and who's not is from results like this. Not like we were spanked, we're tough to beat but just lacking some quality but come January and the summer I have total faith Lambert will rectify that.

I don't expect much from some of the upcoming games but I'm relaxed, early days and I'm happy to sit back and let Lambert work out what hes got.

[RevidgeBlue]

I think he'll persevere with Koita. History shows that PL likes a big strong quick forward by his signings like Benteke in past years. I expect JR to go this window and we replace with a couple of quality forwards. His last 2/3 performances for me have been lazy and quiet.

Having brought Lambert in you have to fully back him and trust his judgment, however I think it's a massive decision to offload Rhodes. I don't think there's any goals in the existing squad apart from JR regardless of who plays up front and PL would be creating a huge rod for his own back if he sold JR and the replacements didn't work out.

To me it would be far simpler and more obvious to work round Rhodes by bringing in a creative midfielder and a couple of midfielders/wingers who can get alongside him and past him.

Then again I'm not the manager or footballing professional so you have to respect whichever route PL goes down. I hope he takes the latter one though.

[JAL]

Koita misses a great chance from 8 yds.

Who scouted him chaddy ?

Has his agent had other failed dealings with the club recently ?

[ben_the_beast]

Having been living out the country for some time this was my first game in a couple of years. Not even been able to catch much on TV or online. So in a way I was looking at many of these players with a fresh pair of eyes.

Jordan Rhodes was terrible. By far the worst player on the pitch. We were playing with 10 men. Having had a scan of this thread I really can't believe how little criticism he is coming in for. He genuinely looked as if that was his first game in the side. First half the few times Conway had the ball out wide for a cross him and Rhodes were just on a totally different wavelength. Cross far post as Rhodes ran near. I watched him miss time the ball with it subsequently bouncing over his head numerous times. He had three half chances today. One he skyed it, second a decent cut back for him was miss controlled and the third he scuffed into the keepers arms. If he isn't threatening with half chances what on earth is he worth having for. That was league two standard stuff from him. And he was never fast but to say he's getting slower is an understatement. My opinion is sell, sell, sell. We need the cash. New striker, a forward thinking midfielder, and a winger with pace to replace Marshall whom didn't make it more than ten yards in front of Olsson all game.

In regards to the game. They scored a wonder goal having not really touched the ball for ten minutes. He's swung his boot at it. He'd try it anther twenty times and it would be in the stands. Then nothing really happened for the rest of the game. It became apparant very quickly how toothless we were. So Reading ram around a lot. Put pressure on us when we has possession. We had no answer. As for everyone slating brown coming on. However depressing it is to see that style of football. We created a couple of chances at the death with a few big lumps up there to play head tennis in their box. Far moreso than Jordan created. So yes. He was feeding on scraps but he certainly doesn't help himself by just generally being a bit of a crap lump.

[K-Hod]

There were some VERY embarrassing comments when Bowyer was here. Someone even compared Lambert's arrival to the time Dalglish arrived. That was embarrassing. Performances have been poor since Lambert arrived...defensive, negative football. Nowt wrong with that if he keeps getting results but he's had an easy start as far as the oppo are concerned. Let's see how he does against decent oppo before we hail him as the new Messiah. He's getting less out the players than Bowyer did at present.

Looking forward to the 'fast, attacking football' he promised though!

He's already got as many wins as Bowyer managed all season. When you win games, does anyone really care how they come? You only get 3 points either way!

[Mattyblue]

Very worrying. The defence may be a bit better but that was one thing that was a lot better anyway this season under Bowyer. The attacking side of the game seems to have regressed under Lambert. We were creating chances under Bowyer but not taking them. Now we don't even seem to be creating them. Not scoring from open play since Lambert arrived is a concern. We aren't going to play @#/? teams every week. Most of the fixtures till the end of Feb look pretty difficult. If we carry on creating few chances then the relegation thread may need to be re-opened.

Lambert talks the talk, and it is still very early days, but he needs to at least show that he can improve the performances of the players he's got. That's what good managers do. I hope to god that the Lambert at Villa(dull, negative, losing football) is not what Rovers have got.

However, the squad is still woefully short in all areas, as now seems readily accepted by the Bowyer Out mob. At Least Lambert will be able to throw some decent money at it (hopefully). And why not give the kids a chance? Shocking!

Good results so far from pretty awful performances. That was never going to last. Lambert needs to up his game and find a way of getting the best out of Rhodes. Maybe he should try not flogging them to death and do some more work with the players on how to score goals. I'm bloody outraged!

Bu the sound of it, Bowyer was doing fine for you and should still be in situ?

Well not for me, the last 12 months of Bowyer were terrible, results and performances. So not sure how it is only Lambert that has you 'outraged', not the months of phoned in displays under the last bloke.

[Pedro]

nobody can answer the question about suspensions!

The deadline for accumulating booking points passed a few weeks ago, so they aren't suspended.

[philipl]

Desperately poor - that is the standard of many comments.

Revidge is spot on regarding relegation. Six games ago we were 2 points above the bottom 3 and averaging a points per game rate that had we continued to the end of the season would have seen us relegated from this division in more than half of the previous Championship seasons. Now we are 10 points above the bottom 3 and two days ago were as many points from 2nd as we were from 22nd.

As to the game, it appears we had most of the first half then got penned back second half. We conceded a goal from an unstoppable shot but we were sloppy in letting the player get to the ball. The defense held firm otherwise (once again). We were uncreative and unconvincing (once again) and missed the target when we should have scored three times (Koita twice and Rhodes once).

Disappointing and frustrating but not the end of the world or even the end of the hopes for a play-off place.

[G Somerset Rover]

Having been living out the country for some time this was my first game in a couple of years. Not even been able to catch much on TV or online. So in a way I was looking at many of these players with a fresh pair of eyes.

Jordan Rhodes was terrible. By far the worst player on the pitch. We were playing with 10 men. Having had a scan of this thread I really can't believe how little criticism he is coming in for. He genuinely looked as if that was his first game in the side. First half the few times Conway had the ball out wide for a cross him and Rhodes were just on a totally different wavelength. Cross far post as Rhodes ran near. I watched him miss time the ball with it subsequently bouncing over his head numerous times. He had three half chances today. One he skyed it, second a decent cut back for him was miss controlled and the third he scuffed into the keepers arms. If he isn't threatening with half chances what on earth is he worth having for. That was league two standard stuff from him. And he was never fast but to say he's getting slower is an understatement. My opinion is sell, sell, sell. We need the cash.

I'd forgotten about the miss control in the second half. Koita did excellently down their left to beat his man and whipped a great ball into the box only for Jordan to deflect it backwards to safety. It was beyond terrible.

I think the effort was there from him yesterday; he's never going to be a Paul Dickov style striker. A mixture of lack of service and a poor performance from himself personally resulted in him not getting on the scoresheet.

[K-Hod]

After 1 loss and less than 10 games you say this? Come on, it's still early days

Where?

Only thing I find embarrassing is how suddenly after 1 defeat, the season is over, pl can't work with such poor players with broken mentalities, GB was the second coming of satan and still nobody can answer the question about suspensions!

Just keep willy waving instead lads.

9 people 'liked' that post, so they can see it! You need to look a bit harder pal

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

After 1 loss and less than 10 games you say this? Come on, it's still early days

Where?

Only thing I find embarrassing is how suddenly after 1 defeat, the season is over, pl can't work with such poor players with broken mentalities, GB was the second coming of satan and still nobody can answer the question about suspensions!

Just keep willy waving instead lads.

The championship is a strange division but to finish in the top 6, we would need to win 5-6 games on the bounce at some stage. It's abundantly clear that the 'squad' PL inherited is woefully short which is probably why we were no where near the play offs last season despite a 40 goal strike force. All the creativity has been sold or released over the last 2 years.

Judging by what we have seen so far, PL will need to be the second coming of Christ to pull off a top 6 finish with this bunch. You can never say never but common sense says that this season can be written off.

With PL here we can forget the spectre of relegation. Use this season to instil his mentality and style of play whilst overhauling the squad and bringing in his players.

You often have to take a step back to move forward.

[K-Hod]

Who scouted him chaddy ?

Has his agent had other failed dealings with the club recently ?

Stop asking questions you clearly already know the answer to please.

This Mystic Meg act is tiresome.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Desperately poor - that is the standard of many comments.

Revidge is spot on regarding relegation. Six games ago we were 2 points above the bottom 3 and averaging a points per game rate that had we continued to the end of the season would have seen us relegated from this division in more than half of the previous Championship seasons. Now we are 10 points above the bottom 3 and two days ago were as many points from 2nd as we were from 22nd.

As to the game, it appears we had most of the first half then got penned back second half. We conceded a goal from an unstoppable shot but we were sloppy in letting the player get to the ball. The defense held firm otherwise (once again). We were uncreative and unconvincing (once again) and missed the target when we should have scored three times (Koita twice and Rhodes once).

Disappointing and frustrating but not the end of the world or even the end of the hopes for a play-off place.

I agree with lots of this - but my worry is that the quality of football has one backwards - and the good run of results were against fairly average sides. Indeed we have struggled when playing half decent sides.

I find it amazing that anyone that dares to criticise our current standard of play is automatically a Bowyer supporter and PL detractor.

IMO Bowyer did some things well - and some things badly - and we needed to change. Lets not forget that GB actually managed to get more out of certain players than PL did - but PL is getting more out of other players (most likely different styles of play). Also when considering the squad that GB left for PL - lets not forget Gestede and Cairney had to be sold for financial reasons - and both players would strengthen the current squad.

Amongst all the angst at a single defeat - we have to remember that PL wants to play a different style, is working them harder in training (would be curious as to whether too hard) - and it will all take time. Certain players won't suit the style of play - doesn't necessarily make them bad players though.

I have criticised our standard of play since PL took over - somewhat ironic that against Forest I actually saw a significant improvement and that the training was starting to take effect. Sounds like we went a little backwards against Reading - but again (but for a wonder goal) was fairly defensively sound. IMO a sound defence is the key to promotion - just need to either get Rhodes scoring or replace him in January.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

The championship is a strange division but to finish in the top 6, we would need to win 5-6 games on the bounce at some stage. It's abundantly clear that the 'squad' PL inherited is woefully short which is probably why we were no where near the play offs last season despite a 40 goal strike force. All the creativity has been sold or released over the last 2 years.

Judging by what we have seen so far, PL will need to be the second coming of Christ to pull off a top 6 finish with this bunch. You can never say never but common sense says that this season can be written off.

With PL here we can forget the spectre of relegation. Use this season to instil his mentality and style of play whilst overhauling the squad and bringing in his players.

You often have to take a step back to move forward.

Sorry - don't buy that the squad is woefully short. Yes we need some quality additions - but we still have some good players in lots of positions - it is about getting the best out of these players - which is ultimately the managers job.

With half a season to go - the right loans/purchases in January will make all the difference - and it is far too early to write off the whole season.

[DE.]

The first eleven is good enough to give anyone a game if enough of the players are on form, but we are horrifically short of any quality back up. How many players have genuine challenges to their places in the team? Too many of them are in the first eleven by default, and whilst that doesn't automatically make them bad players, it does mean they have no need to push themselves for that extra 10% that is often needed to win games.

Of course, it also means a few injuries will totally screw us over. We could get away with one injury at centre back and one in midfield, but anywhere else and we're significantly weaker. Our bench is so devoid of quality, Lawrence aside, it's frightening. There's work to be done in January, and hopefully Lambert is already deep into enquiries on who he can bring in to improve the squad.

[47er]

Sorry - don't buy that the squad is woefully short. Yes we need some quality additions - but we still have some good players in lots of positions - it is about getting the best out of these players - which is ultimately the managers job.

With half a season to go - the right loans/purchases in January will make all the difference - and it is far too early to write off the whole season.

But the previous manager couldn't get the best out of them could he and it was his squad!

Self-evident that he couldn't because he only got three wins out of 16 games and we were in for a relegation battle.

Yet you didn't come up with the sort of criticisms that you are making now. Indeed you wanted Bowyer to stay.

I do not understand it.

[arbitro]

Sorry - don't buy that the squad is woefully short. Yes we need some quality additions - but we still have some good players in lots of positions - it is about getting the best out of these players - which is ultimately the managers job.

With half a season to go - the right loans/purchases in January will make all the difference - and it is far too early to write off the whole season.

The squad is desperately short of quality. Look at our bench yesterday and tell me how many of them are actually good enough? Even the starting eleven yesterday had glaring weaknesses, one of which seems to be exploited by rival managers on a regular basis. The squad needs a radical overhaul and this may take two transfer windows to get where we need to be to mount a serious challenge.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Sorry - don't buy that the squad is woefully short. Yes we need some quality additions - but we still have some good players in lots of positions - it is about getting the best out of these players - which is ultimately the managers job.

With half a season to go - the right loans/purchases in January will make all the difference - and it is far too early to write off the whole season.

Defence is solid (Henley open to debate but as a unit they are doing well) but then any decent manager should be able to drill a back line effectively. Further up the field (with the exception of the out of form Rhodes and Conway) there isn't anyone really contributing. Then there is the bench which has minimal options on to say the least.

Look at the teams in the top 5 - 6. How many of our players would get in their first 11 or bench?

I would suggest:

Hanley

Olssen

Duffy

Evans

Conway

Rhodes

Marshall

Lawrence

I would guess that around 3 of that lot would actually start for a top 6 side.

We are short of quality. Players like Conway and Marshall will get a game regardless of form because there is nobody to push for their position.

Interestingly, I expect the much maligned Jason Lowe would fit into a PL midfield...

[blueboy3333]

Bu the sound of it, Bowyer was doing fine for you and should still be in situ?

Well not for me, the last 12 months of Bowyer were terrible, results and performances. So not sure how it is only Lambert that has you 'outraged', not the months of phoned in displays under the last bloke.

nah, not really, he was defo into 3rd season syndrome and i wasn't against him leaving. However, to say the rsults and performances for the last 12 months have been terrible is a gross simplification, and the type I was parodying in the post I made. Hull, Leeds, Derby, Ipswich and Bonleh, to name just a few this season, were all good performances and far better than Lambert has managed, against better opposition and with the same players. This is my worry about Lambert but i'm putting it down to the training he's doing and the fact the players are struggling to cope. The results under PL have been good though so far.

A lot of my original post was tongue in cheek. PL is doing things that Bowyer got crucified for on a regular basis - dull negative football, strange subs, not playing the kids etc...hence the pseudo 'outrage'.

I do worry that PL has become a more cautious manager since his Norwich days, but if it gets us up then who cares. I think expectations need to be tempered though. This is a horribly tough league and we are still a club that needs rebuilding. Bowyer did a fantastic job in starting the process and we now at least have a squad that can be competetive in the Championship, but it's still going to take a few transfer windows to assemble a squad capable of challenging the likes of Boro, Derby, Hull etc. All the talk of 'we should have gone up last season' is being shown to be the @#/? it always was (a 40 goal strike force is irrelevant if nobody else scores and the centre of our midfield was more League 1 than Championship). We can't even score from open play at the moment against some of the poorer sides in the league, in that respect we have gone backwards, but it is good to see Lambert maintaining the improved defensive performances that began at the start of this season.

This club has been destroyed from top to bottom. The transfer embargo set back the rebuilding job to a huge degree. Fortunately Lambert will have a bit of money and a bit more leeway to bring some quality additions in. It will be interesting to see who he can attract. I have high hopes for him, he has a better managerial pedigree than Bowyer, but i don't think he can wave a magic wand. If we get promoted in the next couple of seasons he will have done an amazing job. Hopefully Venkies will back him to the hilt.

[blueboy3333]

I'd say you pretty much just proved his point with this post.

You can barely hide your glee - ironic considering it's what you aimed at those who could see Bowyers many failings.

Bowyers sacking was long coming and I'm relieved it finally happened - I desperately hope Lambert is a success and on paper it's a brilliant appointment but as I said at the time nothing is guaranteed in football, he's inherited a team with no drive, poor fitness and on the brink of a relegation battle, it's a tough task for anyone.

you didn't see the irony in my post then? Ironic.

[DE.]

In fairness, Bowyer was only really heavily criticised towards the middle of his second season in charge. There was plenty of support for him on here before then. Lambert's only been in charge for six games so criticisms need to be far more measured until he's been given a chance to prove himself and properly implement his methods.