[Archived] Rovers V Reading Sun 20Th Dec

[blueboy3333]

In your opinion he did a good job. In my opinion he wasted our 2nd and 3rd best chances to go back up. Every season we spend in this division we lose money, lose players and lose fans. The first season was a total Venkys debacle, the 2nd and 3rd Bowyer has nobody to blame but himself. In the 2nd he fell narrowly short, in the 3rd he fell a long way short. We were undeniably getting worse under him and would have continued to do so.

The "steadied the ship" line that is the bread and butter of Bowyer supporters is a great big con in my opinion. All it means for me is he was better than the unbelievably dreadful Berg and Appleton, arguably the 2 worst managers in the club's history. A feat which could have been achieved by Justin Bieber or Alan Partridge with points to spare. Its like putting someone out of the local mental institution in charge of Blackburn Council for a couple of months, then giving me the job, and after 2 years of nothing getting done congratulating me for steadying the ship.

As for the looking forward to our imminent promotion under Lambert, well that puts my last paragraph into even starker contrast. You were happy to judge Bowyer against the inept bungling of Berg and Appleton, and now you insist on judging Lambert against...Ferguson? I can't think who else could be expected to guarantee immediate promotion after 3 years of stagnation.

Obviously it's my opinion. Goes without saying.

If you think Bowyer did a bad job then you must have thought that we were in a good position to go back up when we came down? I did at first but having expensive players on big wages means nowt if those players don't give a toss. Bowyer had to replace them all. In doing so he saved us from relegation (see Blackpool and Wigan) and put together a competetive squad on limited resources compared to a lot of top half Championship teams. All this was done at a severly dysfunctional club, No mean feat in my opinion, Is any of that factually incorrect?

How is steadying the ship a big con? If GB hadn't steadied the ship i hate to think were we'd be now, but League 1 would not have interested Paul Lambert and the likes of Rhodes, Conway Hanley et al would be long gone. Actually i'm not sure how 'steadying a ship' is a bad thing let alone a big con? I think you forget the shytestorm Bowyer walkeg in on. The club is a much calmer place these days because the football side of things is much more stable. Yes, stability, quite a good recruitment tool for any new manager. Well done Bowyer for laying the foundations for PL try and build on.

Ferguson? What are you on about? I'm not going to judge Lambert against anyone. The situation at the club is different now than when Bowyer took over. Lambert's been brought in to achieve promotion (and according to PhilipL he's on a massive bonus to do it), because people at the club think he has a better chance than Bowyer. On paper he has, but it will take time and investment, the club is still not not where is should be in terms of quality or depth of squad. Hopefully with more money and no crippling embargo (exited in no small part due to the excellent recruitment of Bowyer in paying £700k for Cairney and Gestede and receiving £9m back when we sold them...excellent work) Lambert can improve on our league position next season and have a shot of the play-offs.

https://blueyedboy.wordpress.com/2015/12/21/no-blue-heaven-yet-for-manager-who-fell-to-earth/

The above is the latest from Blueyedboy. One paragraph stood out:-

'One thing’s for sure, the much-trumpeted (and repeatedly much-derided by this scribe) “any other manager would have this squad top six” theorem has been thoroughly disabused of any credibility for good and all.'

A fair point. The squad isn't good enough, Bowyer never had the resources to improve it properly, and when he was making headway by making some quality bargain signings the rug was pulled from under his feet with the embargo hitting. As the article also points out 'Cardiff and Hull went up without a fella in double figures between them', highlighting the nonsense that having a 40 goal strikeforce (thanjs GB for half of that) means nowt when you have a central midfield of league 1 standard and haven't got the resources to improve it. Please don't mention Cairney, no manager is going to put him in a two man central midfield.

It's going to take some heavy investment/better players or a genius manager to get us up automatically. Bowyer did well to get us within a sniff of the play-offs considering all that was going on at the club in his first full season, and considering the ridiculous turnover of players. His 2nd full season wasn't as good but then he was limited to Brown and Varney on frees that summer as the taps had been turned off fully as the embargo approached. Other teams spent heavily that summer (brentford about £4m) and improved their teams. If you stay still you got backwards. It wasn't a surprise we finished lower last season but it was still a creditable performance.

Hopefully Lambert can do what you, and many others, criticised Bowyer for not doing, and get us up. Unless, of course, you are now moving the goalposts

Bottom line, Bowyer did a fantastic job at a very difficult time for the club. If you think he should have got us promoted then that's up to you. I couldn't disagree more. I don't think PL is guaranteed to get us up either. There will be better financed clubs than ours over the duration of Lambert's contract, with better players. Maybe a reality check is needed.

[blueboy3333]

He focussed immediately on shoring up our defence though didn't he? Something bizarrely Bowyer never did, despite us giving away a succession of late goals?

Anyway, Bowyer has gone and he isn't coming back.

In fairness, the defence was looking a lot better this season before lambert walked in. The goals against column proved it. Trouble was we kept missing sitters at the other end. PL does seem to have us even more organised at the back though, shame he can't get us going at the other end!

You keep saying he isn't coming back, but i think there's a hint of sadness in your words. Admit it, you're starting to see what a good job he did

[blueboy3333]

I did say Latte's were wrong (White filter coffee for me every time) but like with Bowyer you couldn't see what was in plain sight....even now when you've been proven as wrong as an Xmas X-Factor marathon

I'm sure the 'consensus' was 'only' that a proper manager could get an extra 10% out of them in terms of points...........ooooh look, lo and behold he has, and some.

Never let facts get in the way of a good generalisation

Halleluja Brother Hod

Anyway I'm off back in to the shadows until the next stupefying comment

Now it's the X-Factor! I'd have stuck with Latte's.

If it's generalisations i want i'll just check out your posts. Small on detail, small on coherent argument, but big on soundbites and camp popular culture. Shove that up your mocchiato to go

[47er]

Everybody believes Bowyer did a terrific job keeping us up when he first took the job on. We really were at rock bottom in terms of performance and morale. And , yes, he steaded the ship. And, yes, he seemed an honest and unassuming man.

So let's accept that and move on because that was it. He didn't learn, he didn't improve and in tnis third season we were back to where we started, in fear of relegation.

Not sorry he's gone as some seem to be, why is that? Don't you want Rovers to be successful again? Excited by the future with Lambert and Irvine.

As Rovers supporters, shouldn't we all feel the same? Surely we can accept that GB was given more than a fair chance and couldn't take it? It just seems like people are taking an opposite view for the sake of it so we can carry on bickering.

He has gone, he isn't coming back. That's simply the truth. Why keep banging on about him?

[K-Hod]

In fairness, the defence was looking a lot better this season before lambert walked in. The goals against column proved it. Trouble was we kept missing sitters at the other end. PL does seem to have us even more organised at the back though, shame he can't get us going at the other end!

You keep saying he isn't coming back, but i think there's a hint of sadness in your words. Admit it, you're starting to see what a good job he did

You're mistaken blueboy, I'm relieved he isn't!

We've needed a proper manager with a track record for the last 5 years and we've finally got one! Bowyer did alright initially, but as has been proven time and again we regressed on the pitch under his leadership. To paraphrase Michael Appleton 'this is a football club, not a movie production'. This is a results business.

People downgraded their expectations and aspirations in line with Bowyer's failings, which was tragic. Aim low, and that's where you end up.

[tomphil]

One thing Bowyer did was leave us with is no other goal scoring forwards other than you know who. Yes we lost Rudy and it was hard to replace him under embargo and yes Koita was a cheap gamble who still may come good but this situation created himself a problem and a big one for Lambert to inherit. It's a huge reason for our struggles this season.

Brown and Varney were awful signings I don't care what anyone says I simply refuse to believe there wasn't better out there even on our budget. Similarly Delfonso ain't much better at all ,a desperate post embargo effort he'll still be on a decent whack. In the case of the first two and probably Koita he quite clearly just went down the nice lads who run around a bit route over actually going for someone who can notch the odd few.

Add all those lots wages together plus signings fee and so forth and there is a few quid wasted there. For all the good stuff he did that area was pretty poor when you look back at it, of course the Rudy situation glossed it over somewhat but no denying those lax signings are haunting us now.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Obviously it's my opinion. Goes without saying.

If you think Bowyer did a bad job then you must have thought that we were in a good position to go back up when we came down? I did at first but having expensive players on big wages means nowt if those players don't give a toss. Bowyer had to replace them all. In doing so he saved us from relegation (see Blackpool and Wigan) and put together a competetive squad on limited resources compared to a lot of top half Championship teams. All this was done at a severly dysfunctional club, No mean feat in my opinion, Is any of that factually incorrect?

How is steadying the ship a big con? If GB hadn't steadied the ship i hate to think were we'd be now, but League 1 would not have interested Paul Lambert and the likes of Rhodes, Conway Hanley et al would be long gone. Actually i'm not sure how 'steadying a ship' is a bad thing let alone a big con? I think you forget the shytestorm Bowyer walkeg in on. The club is a much calmer place these days because the football side of things is much more stable. Yes, stability, quite a good recruitment tool for any new manager. Well done Bowyer for laying the foundations for PL try and build on.

Ferguson? What are you on about? I'm not going to judge Lambert against anyone. The situation at the club is different now than when Bowyer took over. Lambert's been brought in to achieve promotion (and according to PhilipL he's on a massive bonus to do it), because people at the club think he has a better chance than Bowyer. On paper he has, but it will take time and investment, the club is still not not where is should be in terms of quality or depth of squad. Hopefully with more money and no crippling embargo (exited in no small part due to the excellent recruitment of Bowyer in paying £700k for Cairney and Gestede and receiving £9m back when we sold them...excellent work) Lambert can improve on our league position next season and have a shot of the play-offs.

https://blueyedboy.wordpress.com/2015/12/21/no-blue-heaven-yet-for-manager-who-fell-to-earth/

The above is the latest from Blueyedboy. One paragraph stood out:-

'One thing’s for sure, the much-trumpeted (and repeatedly much-derided by this scribe) “any other manager would have this squad top six” theorem has been thoroughly disabused of any credibility for good and all.'

A fair point. The squad isn't good enough, Bowyer never had the resources to improve it properly, and when he was making headway by making some quality bargain signings the rug was pulled from under his feet with the embargo hitting. As the article also points out 'Cardiff and Hull went up without a fella in double figures between them', highlighting the nonsense that having a 40 goal strikeforce (thanjs GB for half of that) means nowt when you have a central midfield of league 1 standard and haven't got the resources to improve it. Please don't mention Cairney, no manager is going to put him in a two man central midfield.

It's going to take some heavy investment/better players or a genius manager to get us up automatically. Bowyer did well to get us within a sniff of the play-offs considering all that was going on at the club in his first full season, and considering the ridiculous turnover of players. His 2nd full season wasn't as good but then he was limited to Brown and Varney on frees that summer as the taps had been turned off fully as the embargo approached. Other teams spent heavily that summer (brentford about £4m) and improved their teams. If you stay still you got backwards. It wasn't a surprise we finished lower last season but it was still a creditable performance.

Hopefully Lambert can do what you, and many others, criticised Bowyer for not doing, and get us up. Unless, of course, you are now moving the goalposts

Bottom line, Bowyer did a fantastic job at a very difficult time for the club. If you think he should have got us promoted then that's up to you. I couldn't disagree more. I don't think PL is guaranteed to get us up either. There will be better financed clubs than ours over the duration of Lambert's contract, with better players. Maybe a reality check is needed.

Well was just pointing out its your opinion because your reply to the other poster seemed to suggest its an undeniable truth that everyone will grasp sooner or later.

I think every club that comes down has a good chance of going back up. Wage bills are the most important factor in player quality in football and every relegated PL club has a massive wage bill compared to their Championship competitors. I agree every relegated club was relegated for a reason and most of the time its down to the extremely poor attitude of these quality players. But that for me is the crux of the matter, a good manager will sort out the attitudes, not ship the quality out and bring a lot of try-hard players in. You can improve a player's attitude a lot more easily than you can improve their ability.

Was Bowyer on limited resources? Again, for me wage bill has far more effect on quality than transfer kitty and in Bowyer's first full season we were still collecting £16m per season in parachute payment money. The only wage bills bigger than ours in the league would have been the 3 most recently relegated clubs. In his second season we got £8m parachute payment and there were likely about 6 clubs with a bigger wage bill. And so it goes, which is the crux of my argument. If you get relegated, especially if you're a small club, your resources compared to the rest of the league will diminish each season. Kean/Appleton/Berg had a better shot at it than Bowyer, Bowyer had a better shot at it than Lambert. Our first 3 seasons in this league have been criminally, inexcusably wasteful.

[blueboy3333]

You're mistaken blueboy, I'm relieved he isn't!

We've needed a proper manager with a track record for the last 5 years and we've finally got one! Bowyer did alright initially, but as has been proven time and again we regressed on the pitch under his leadership. To paraphrase Michael Appleton 'this is a football club, not a movie production'. This is a results business.

People downgraded their expectations and aspirations in line with Bowyer's failings, which was tragic. Aim low, and that's where you end up.

Ironic really, because people are doing exactly the same now that Lambert is here...'he needs time' etc etc...the same people who wanted instant success from Bowyer. Lambert does need time for the simple reason that the club has been to hell and back and is only just starting to resemble a functional entity. The squad is simply not good enough in either quantity or quality. It needs investment, the type Bowyer wasn't allowed.

'Bowyer's failings' is just nonsense. Plenty of time to go this season so are you goint to nail your colours to the mast and say we are going to make the play-offs? You obviously think the team is good enough.

[blueboy3333]

One thing Bowyer did was leave us with is no other goal scoring forwards other than you know who. Yes we lost Rudy and it was hard to replace him under embargo and yes Koita was a cheap gamble who still may come good but this situation created himself a problem and a big one for Lambert to inherit. It's a huge reason for our struggles this season.

Brown and Varney were awful signings I don't care what anyone says I simply refuse to believe there wasn't better out there even on our budget. Similarly Delfonso ain't much better at all ,a desperate post embargo effort he'll still be on a decent whack. In the case of the first two and probably Koita he quite clearly just went down the nice lads who run around a bit route over actually going for someone who can notch the odd few.

Add all those lots wages together plus signings fee and so forth and there is a few quid wasted there. For all the good stuff he did that area was pretty poor when you look back at it, of course the Rudy situation glossed it over somewhat but no denying those lax signings are haunting us now.

That's just conjecture. I'm sure Bowyer wanted better, he proved that before with the likes of Rudy. Maybe just maybe the embargo was the proverbial stracket and the likes of Koita and Delf were the best he could do. Why would any manager want to sign players to make himself look bad? Brown and Varney were just back-up players anyway. Lambert has spoken well of both Brown and Koita. I'm sure he'll want a lot better though when/if he gets some money.

[K-Hod]

Ironic really, because people are doing exactly the same now that Lambert is here...'he needs time' etc etc...the same people who wanted instant success from Bowyer. Lambert does need time for the simple reason that the club has been to hell and back and is only just starting to resemble a functional entity. The squad is simply not good enough in either quantity or quality. It needs investment, the type Bowyer wasn't allowed.

'Bowyer's failings' is just nonsense. Plenty of time to go this season so are you goint to nail your colours to the mast and say we are going to make the play-offs? You obviously think the team is good enough.

So, Shane Duffy, Ben Marshall, Corry Evans, Conway, Cairney and Gestede, were free were they? Bowyer had time to buy better players pre-embargo, but he didn't and stocked up on loanees when we were in the embargo.

Bowyer also mis-managed Judge and King when both players have ability we are crying out for in guile and pace.

The last bit in bold is wide of the mark, you also presume incorrectly.

[tomphil]

I'm just simply saying that I think he could have done far better in that area despite our restrictions. Your offering the embargo up as an excuse all the time just like he did but there was time before it kicked in to improve this area. You can't have too many who can put the ball in the net it's probably the most important area of any football team.

Yes he didn't have much coin but neither do most gaffers in this league and below yet they manage to find players who can score a few. The thought process in this was all about getting yes boss no boss pro's who show willing rather than looking around for some potential or even an ageing proven lower level scorer. No doubt failure to do this contributed to him eventually biting the bullet because of the lack of goals this season.

Better planning ahead when he was wasting time with the Browny's & Varney's and a thousand midfielders may just have seen him still in the job. I know it's easy to look back now and moan but it was highlighted at the time and since and it is a problem he's left us with.

[blueboy3333]

Well was just pointing out its your opinion because your reply to the other poster seemed to suggest its an undeniable truth that everyone will grasp sooner or later.

I think every club that comes down has a good chance of going back up. Wage bills are the most important factor in player quality in football and every relegated PL club has a massive wage bill compared to their Championship competitors. I agree every relegated club was relegated for a reason and most of the time its down to the extremely poor attitude of these quality players. But that for me is the crux of the matter, a good manager will sort out the attitudes, not ship the quality out and bring a lot of try-hard players in. You can improve a player's attitude a lot more easily than you can improve their ability.

Was Bowyer on limited resources? Again, for me wage bill has far more effect on quality than transfer kitty and in Bowyer's first full season we were still collecting £16m per season in parachute payment money. The only wage bills bigger than ours in the league would have been the 3 most recently relegated clubs. In his second season we got £8m parachute payment and there were likely about 6 clubs with a bigger wage bill. And so it goes, which is the crux of my argument. If you get relegated, especially if you're a small club, your resources compared to the rest of the league will diminish each season. Kean/Appleton/Berg had a better shot at it than Bowyer, Bowyer had a better shot at it than Lambert. Our first 3 seasons in this league have been criminally, inexcusably wasteful.

Each season we went more into debt which was the legacy of Kean/Anderson giving ridiculous contracts to the likes of Goodwillie, Best, Etuhu, Murphy, Orr etc etc when we came down. The club was stuffed from that point onwards. Bowyer wouldn't have seen any of that £16m parachute money because that was going on paying the wages of utter dross not suited to the Championship. None of them have gone on to do anything and most retired quite quickly. Saying another manager would have got more out of them is frankly baloney.

So the wage bill argument is wrong. Bowyer signed none of the players who caused the club to go £100m in debt, and only made a few of big signings (Marshall, Evans, Cairney) and the rest were 100k/200k and freebies. He did make the club a lot of money though in transfer dealings. Good job really.

[Mattyblue]

Ironic really, because people are doing exactly the same now that Lambert is here...'he needs time' etc etc...the same people who wanted instant success from Bowyer. Lambert does need time for the simple reason that the club has been to hell and back and is only just starting to resemble a functional entity. The squad is simply not good enough in either quantity or quality. It needs investment, the type Bowyer wasn't allowed.

Nobody expected instant success from Bowyer, he was under no pressure at any stage at Ewood.

I doubt Lambert will get such a free reign, to me that shows that the fanbase thought Bowyer was limited, but we couldn't expect the owners to replace him with any better.

[blueboy3333]

So, Shane Duffy, Ben Marshall, Corry Evans, Conway, Cairney and Gestede, were free were they? Bowyer had time to buy better players pre-embargo, but he didn't and stocked up on loanees when we were in the embargo.

Bowyer also mis-managed Judge and King when both players have ability we are crying out for in guile and pace.

The last bit in bold is wide of the mark, you also presume incorrectly.

Considering he had to build a whole new team and at the same time get promoted the investment is minimal. I'm sure there are outliers but most teams that get promoted out of this division do so with substantial investment. Look at the top 4 this season, they've spent fortunes relative to Bowyer. Bowyer spent £4m (ish) over 3 seasons, all the teams in the top 4 have all spent that on one player, some many times over.

So, if Bowyer failed then what is success for Lambert? I can only imagine it is reaching the play-offs?

[AllRoverAsia]

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[47er]

Ironic really, because people are doing exactly the same now that Lambert is here...'he needs time' etc etc...the same people who wanted instant success from Bowyer. Lambert does need time for the simple reason that the club has been to hell and back and is only just starting to resemble a functional entity. The squad is simply not good enough in either quantity or quality. It needs investment, the type Bowyer wasn't allowed.

'Bowyer's failings' is just nonsense. Plenty of time to go this season so are you goint to nail your colours to the mast and say we are going to make the play-offs? You obviously think the team is good enough.

Which people wanted instant success from Bowyer? Nobody!

Nobody was into Bowyer after 6 games. That's a convenient figment of your imagination.

We were just happy he wasn't a total no-hoper and gave us back a semblamce of decency

Everybody wanted him to succeed and for a while it looked like he might.

I've already nailed my colours to the mast several times and said I do not expect us to make the play-offs this season.

But that isn't the criterion by which Lambert should be judged. If you think it is then you should have demanded Bowyer be sacked after every season!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Each season we went more into debt which was the legacy of Kean/Anderson giving ridiculous contracts to the likes of Goodwillie, Best, Etuhu, Murphy, Orr etc etc when we came down. The club was stuffed from that point onwards. Bowyer wouldn't have seen any of that £16m parachute money because that was going on paying the wages of utter dross not suited to the Championship. None of them have gone on to do anything and most retired quite quickly. Saying another manager would have got more out of them is frankly baloney.

So the wage bill argument is wrong. Bowyer signed none of the players who caused the club to go £100m in debt, and only made a few of big signings (Marshall, Evans, Cairney) and the rest were 100k/200k and freebies. He did make the club a lot of money though in transfer dealings. Good job really.

Bowyer did see that money in the players he had in his squad. Define utter dross? Goodwillie had scored 17 in the SPL before we signed him, Orr had won the Championship, Best had had 2 decent seasons in the PL, Etuhu and Murphy had hundreds of PL appearances between them. There's no such thing as not suited to the Championship, that's just some nonsensical garbage. If you can do the business in the PL, you can definitely do the business in the Championship, no matter what type of player you are. You have literally no idea what any other manager could have done with them, we never even came close to finding out because they were mainly managed by people who were number 3 and 4 at the club under a proper manager.

[K-Hod]

Considering he had to build a whole new team and at the same time get promoted the investment is minimal. I'm sure there are outliers but most teams that get promoted out of this division do so with substantial investment. Look at the top 4 this season, they've spent fortunes relative to Bowyer. Bowyer spent £4m (ish) over 3 seasons, all the teams in the top 4 have all spent that on one player, some many times over.

So, if Bowyer failed then what is success for Lambert? I can only imagine it is reaching the play-offs?

Promotion eventually yes, but ultimately getting the players fitter, tighter defensively and making us harder to beat initially. Because of the poor start to this season I don't expect anything to happen right away, but given Lambert equalled the amount of wins Bowyer gained all season in his first 4 games, it's hardly unreasonable to say the side was under-achieving and not doing the best they could. A good manager makes the team better than the sum of its parts, and I've much more faith in Lambert to get that done than Bowyer, becuase he's won promotion as a manager before and has a far better track record.

These debates have been done to death but utlimately, Bowyer has gone, Lambert is here we all need to move on.

[jim mk2]

Let's be honest - although we look harder to beat we have been pretty awful under Lambert so far. We haven't put in one performance as good as the Burnley match when we played very well despite losing. Lambert's got alot to do to make us a better attacking side - and we desperately need another striker. The last 2 games have been a case in point - 2 free headers that Gestede or any Sunday league striker would have buried but Koita missed. A new centre forward has to be a priority in January.

[DE.]

The first forty-five minutes against Forest showed what we could become under Lambert (albeit with no real cutting edge) - it's a bit worrying that this type of play was nowhere to be seen only a few days later.

[Amo]

As a player if your struggling fitness wise in a game, its a lot easier to take a slight breather when we have the ball, than when we dont, as you dont want to be the one that costs us a goal by not doing you're job. As a result you can see the lack of movement when we do have the ball. Slowly as the squad gets fitter, you'd expect this to improve and as such we become better going forward.

This is a great point and I'm surprised more people haven't approved it.

[JHRover]

Back to the Bowyer argument, his net spend on transfer fees over a period of 2.5 years was somewhere in the region of a £7-8 million profit. That's working on a basis of selling Gestede for £6 million, Cairney for £3 million and King for £1 million, whilst spending somewhere in the region of £2-3 million combined on Cairney Gestede, Conway, Evans, Duffy and Marshall (his only signing to break the £1 million mark).

Beyond that I'd be happy to wager that Duffy, Conway and Marshall would all bring in a profit were they to be sold in the near future (Marshall seeing multi-million bids rejected in the summer).

So Bowyer has had the club well in profit. Infact did he make a cash purchase that can be considered a failure?

Whatever the combined cost of wages on the likes of Varney, Brown and the other squad men he brought in, its not going to be anywhere near the amount his signings have brought in value to the club. Most of these people were 'low risk' signings. Players brought in as squad players on relatively low wages and short term contracts. Those brought in to be first team regulars have been almost entirely successful.

Of course this is ignoring the multi-million pound pay-offs the club has made to offload the likes of Leon Best and Bradley Orr, but I don't think the blame for those can be laid at Bowyer's feet. He inherited them, it was people before him that gave out such unsustainable contracts and their fault the club had to pay them off to reduce the wage bill towards FFP compliance. If we still had Best and co. on the books now then we'd still be under the embargo.

[blueboy3333]

Nobody expected instant success from Bowyer, he was under no pressure at any stage at Ewood.

I doubt Lambert will get such a free reign, to me that shows that the fanbase thought Bowyer was limited, but we couldn't expect the owners to replace him with any better.

It would have been completely unrealistic to expect promotion under Bowyer, i agree. An 8th and 9th place finish in his two full seasons at the club were pretty decent. People did expect promotion though and still regard him as a failure, even though we were under an embargo for his last 12 months at the club, a club he had to rebuild from the Academy upwards. This point gets lost on a lot of people, who just seem to look at the league table and imagine Bowyer walked into a stable functioning football club not massively in debt and packed with excellent young footballers...and not on the verge of two relegations on the bounce. Bizarre.

What pressure should he have been under? The parachute money was long gone.

As for Lambert, I think people's expectations are still too high. I think he realises that hence his comment about 'tempering' expectation. I'm not sure whether he'll get a free reign or not, as i'm not sure Bowyer did. Apart from this season Bowyer didn't do anything to deserve chants for his head or similar. We were always at the right end of the table, and last season had a good cup run, so i think most realised he was doing a good job under difficult circumstances.

We aren't well resourced compared to some clubs in this division, and it is notoriously hard to get out of, so Lambert should be given enough time to build a squad capable of going up. I think he'll have done well if we reach the play-offs next season. Clubs in the Championship have more money these days, especially the ones who come down. Burnley spending £9m on a striker just shows how hard it is to compete. Unfortunately Kean and Anderson spunked our parachute money away and besides Rhodes we got nothing for it. .

Bowyer did see that money in the players he had in his squad. Define utter dross? Goodwillie had scored 17 in the SPL before we signed him, Orr had won the Championship, Best had had 2 decent seasons in the PL, Etuhu and Murphy had hundreds of PL appearances between them. There's no such thing as not suited to the Championship, that's just some nonsensical garbage. If you can do the business in the PL, you can definitely do the business in the Championship, no matter what type of player you are. You have literally no idea what any other manager could have done with them, we never even came close to finding out because they were mainly managed by people who were number 3 and 4 at the club under a proper manager.

Etuhu was last seen falling over in the Swedish 3rd division. Orr retired cos he was past it. Best is now fighting people in Rotherham. Murphy was finished, and Goodwillie is now back in the SPL doing not much at all. They looked good on paper but their careers after Rovers suggests they were a pile of overpaid dross. I can't believe any Rovers fan who saw them play would argue otherwise.

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

one of your better contributions.

[den]

Bowyer brought in c36 players, most of whom weren't good enough. How much in total, - fees and wages did that cost? The squad he finished with, is in front of us now. It had won three games this season, Lambert is struggling to get a performance out of them as well - yet he was a good manager who had us on the right tracks according to some.

Do me a favour!

[blueboy3333]

Back to the Bowyer argument, his net spend on transfer fees over a period of 2.5 years was somewhere in the region of a £7-8 million profit. That's working on a basis of selling Gestede for £6 million, Cairney for £3 million and King for £1 million, whilst spending somewhere in the region of £2-3 million combined on Cairney Gestede, Conway, Evans, Duffy and Marshall (his only signing to break the £1 million mark).

Beyond that I'd be happy to wager that Duffy, Conway and Marshall would all bring in a profit were they to be sold in the near future (Marshall seeing multi-million bids rejected in the summer).

So Bowyer has had the club well in profit. Infact did he make a cash purchase that can be considered a failure?

Whatever the combined cost of wages on the likes of Varney, Brown and the other squad men he brought in, its not going to be anywhere near the amount his signings have brought in value to the club. Most of these people were 'low risk' signings. Players brought in as squad players on relatively low wages and short term contracts. Those brought in to be first team regulars have been almost entirely successful.

Of course this is ignoring the multi-million pound pay-offs the club has made to offload the likes of Leon Best and Bradley Orr, but I don't think the blame for those can be laid at Bowyer's feet. He inherited them, it was people before him that gave out such unsustainable contracts and their fault the club had to pay them off to reduce the wage bill towards FFP compliance. If we still had Best and co. on the books now then we'd still be under the embargo.

well put, and added to that the decision may not have been Bowyers to make, although from a football point of view it was still the right one.