[Archived] Bolton V Rovers - 28/12/15

[JBiz]

At the time the 'mb agenda' was that nobody better would come.

I know you and I prefer to ignore one another, mainly due to a suggestion that I only reply to people not posts- but this I a fallacy that I'm sick of debunking.

There was no agenda about "nobody better coming" it was simple worry based on the FACTS that the current incumbents had never looked to approach proven managers. When they did, hallelujah - finally the penny had dropped but anyone predicting that was lying.

I agree with much of what you say, we should be waiting a couple of seasons or more before judgement but don't twist the past to suit that position when it's not necessary.

PL should be afforded the time despite a few bad performances!

[LDRover]

I know you and I prefer to ignore one another, mainly due to a suggestion that I only reply to people not posts- but this I a fallacy that I'm sick of debunking.

There was no agenda about "nobody better coming" it was simple worry based on the FACTS that the current incumbents had never looked to approach proven managers. When they did, hallelujah - finally the penny had dropped but anyone predicting that was lying.

I agree with much of what you say, we should be waiting a couple of seasons or more before judgement but don't twist the past to suit that position when it's not necessary.

PL should be afforded the time despite a few bad performances!

Maybe that's what you thought JB but the overriding message on here was of downplaying expectations and finding our natural level therefore GB was the best we should expect.

[Amo]

He wasn't out muscled. No muscles were harmed in the way he just allowed the Bolton player to turn slowly and eventually pick his spot. He just nodded off for a second or two or three. Zzzzzz.

You're right, I was being too generous on Duffy. That's my problem with people saying the two of them have come on leaps & bounds. The pair of them seem to have a solid 89 minutes and all of a sudden switch off and let the opposition in. If Duffy had been able to defend a routine throw into the box, we would've taken a point on Monday.

[JBiz]

I don't remember anyone suggesting that the issues caused where anything but man made mistakes by absentee owners. The agent involvement made that even more obvious.

I might be wrong, but I just don't remember anyone saying we should keep Gary because "this is the natural level of the football club and he is the best we could ever hope for"

[Amo]

I might be wrong, but I just don't remember anyone saying we should keep Gary because "this is the natural level of the football club and he is the best we could ever hope for"

Parson did. On numerous occasions.

[JBiz]

Parson did. On numerous occasions.

Never. It was merely inferred.

Parson would rather try and view a game on the merit of its circumstance, rather than spend every weekend blaming performance issues on the same things.

[Amo]

Never. It was merely inferred.

I can't be assed to dig up his posts but I distinctly remember him claiming that this was our natural level and that we should have only considered sacking Bowyer if we were mired in the relegation zone. I'm sure others will back me up here. He did say this, right?

[K-Hod]

I can't be assed to dig up his posts but I distinctly remember him claiming that this was our natural level and that we should have only considered sacking Bowyer if we were mired in the relegation zone. I'm sure others will back me up here. He did say this, right?

I can certainly recall him saying this on a few occasions. Just to be clear, that's his opinion and that's his right, but I remember it well, as there was quite a lot of disagreement with this standpoint!

[AllRoverAsia]

I can't be assed to dig up his posts but I distinctly remember him claiming that this was our natural level and that we should have only considered sacking Bowyer if we were mired in the relegation zone. I'm sure others will back me up here. He did say this, right?

Absolutely, and he wasnt the only one pushing out the small town in Lancashire dogma either.

[LDRover]

Absolutely, and he wasnt the only one pushing out the small town in Lancashire dogma either.

No, there were quite a few who went down this route. It was pursued with relish as it led to the old favourite "I'll still support even if we're in the Conference, will you" etc.

The other narrative from these posters was a slightly pro-Venky one as well as they were keeping us afloat, paying bills etc.

[rovermagic]

Really good post. Agree with it all , apart from selling Rhodes. If I were PL I'd use my tactical and motivational management skills to get the best from him.

The most realistic and accurate analysis yet. Says it all about where we are.

Agree very much. We have scored fewer goals from open play than any side in Championship. We do have crossers of ball - Conway. Marshall - but no one can oh through balls from midfield. These the balls Rhodes can run onto. Guthrie was worst of the players in close to worst performance for 20 years. Our squad is SO bad. I live in London and can get tout tickets to see Kane, Delie Alli, Alderweireld & Lamella. I'm loyal to Rovers but what horrible dross!

[yoda]

We are Blackburn Rovers, our record over our 140 years existence has earned us the right to claim we belong in the top tier of English football. We are not there at the moment but we will be back.
The Venky's messed up big time and are paying the price. We have to fight back to our rightfull place. The current squad does not appear to relish that fight. It will change, of that I have no doubt.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

It's a strange one because I read your 'one window comment' in exactly the same way as 47er (but I guess "I would"). Maybe it's the position your prior posts have come from that provide the context, possibly erroneously.

I certainly can't see any value in reviewing anything or "seeing where we are" after a transfer window - especially the Sky TV invention that is the JTW.

I think we need to see where we are by the start of next season and a proper pre-season under our belts with some of Lambert's own men coming in. That will show how much further we have to go.

This is the greatest shame of the extended time that Bowyer was given, it has made recovery all the harder. Once he plateaued at the start of last season that should have been the time. At the time the 'mb agenda' was that nobody better would come. That has been proven false. Maybe Bowyer got a bum deal by having to cope with the reshaping of the club to meet the demands of FFP - or possibly accounting mistakes, that seemed a good idea at the time (although I'll readily admit to being envious of Bolton's swerving) - but ultimately he didn't assemble a good enough team, and got shut of players who seem to perform at other clubs - option for quantity over quality - and then not having the ideas or presence to get the best out of what we had/have.

at least

phrase of least

1. 1.

   not less than; at the minimum.

   "clean the windows at least once a week"

   synonyms: at the minimum, no less than, not less than; More
2. 2.

   if nothing else (used to add a positive comment about a generally negative situation).

   "the options aren't complete, but at least they're a start"

[Stuart]

at least

phrase of least

• 1.

  not less than; at the minimum.

  "clean the windows at least once a week"

  synonyms: at the minimum, no less than, not less than; More

• 2.

  if nothing else (used to add a positive comment about a generally negative situation).

  "the options aren't complete, but at least they're a start"

Whilst you've got your dictionary open, look up colloquialism.

(This is tongue in cheek, by the way! )

I know you and I prefer to ignore one another, mainly due to a suggestion that I only reply to people not posts- but this I a fallacy that I'm sick of debunking.

There was no agenda about "nobody better coming" it was simple worry based on the FACTS that the current incumbents had never looked to approach proven managers. When they did, hallelujah - finally the penny had dropped but anyone predicting that was lying.

I agree with much of what you say, we should be waiting a couple of seasons or more before judgement but don't twist the past to suit that position when it's not necessary.

PL should be afforded the time despite a few bad performances!

The over-riding theme at the time - that most people on both sides of the fence had an uneasy truce on - was that 'we could not hope for better than Bowyer'. Admittedly this was in larger part down to people trying to second guess Venkys (based on all the evidence to that point) but also the longer we stagnated and the further we fell no manager would have wanted to come.

Debunk all you like, oh hoaxslayer, that was the size of it I'm afraid. I was shot down more than enough times - particularly by the erstwhile Parsonblue - to remember.

[Pedro]

You know the poop is getting serious when dictionaries are getting quoted.

I love this site. In a sick way, even more after a defeat.

[DanLad]

You know the poop is getting serious when dictionaries are getting quoted.

I love this site. In a sick way, even more after a defeat.

poop

noun

1.

a superstructure at the stern of a vessel.

2.

poop deck.

verb (used with object)

3.

(of a wave) to break over the stern of (a ship).

4.

to take (seas) over the stern.

[JBiz]

I think the point has been missed. What you or others may see as an agenda or belief - the actual "message board agenda" is a figment of imagination.

I never read PB preach like suggested, I just read him make his points in the face of "your mate Gary" posts. His time and opinion is a loss to this forum, despite what a few people may think of his views.

[Hasta]

I know you and I prefer to ignore one another, mainly due to a suggestion that I only reply to people not posts- but this I a fallacy that I'm sick of debunking.

There was no agenda about "nobody better coming" it was simple worry based on the FACTS that the current incumbents had never looked to approach proven managers. When they did, hallelujah - finally the penny had dropped but anyone predicting that was LYING.

You are wrong Jbizzle.

Many of us thought that the prospect of managing an established club, currently 'stable' in the middle of the Championship would be an attractive option for experienced managers that would be out of work. This was simply due to the fact that there are more out of work managers than jobs available. To think these managers wouldn't apply or be interested was rubbish.

Venkys track record on managers was appalling but, with the axis of evil of Agnew / Shebby / Anderson no longer being around, there was more chance of them appointing properly this time than any previous times. From the summer onwards, we were being linked with proper managers instead of the Judan Ali's of this world.

Many of us said that we had a good chance of getting a proper manager. We honestly believed this and, what seems to grind certain people, is that we were proved right. The only people lying were people lying to themselves that GB was as good as we would get under Venkys.

[47er]

I know you and I prefer to ignore one another, mainly due to a suggestion that I only reply to people not posts- but this I a fallacy that I'm sick of debunking.

There was no agenda about "nobody better coming" it was simple worry based on the FACTS that the current incumbents had never looked to approach proven managers. When they did, hallelujah - finally the penny had dropped but anyone predicting that was lying.

I agree with much of what you say, we should be waiting a couple of seasons or more before judgement but don't twist the past to suit that position when it's not necessary.

PL should be afforded the time despite a few bad performances!

I don't know about "agenda", I think that word is over-used on here. However a real lot of posters,(can't possibly quantify it) regularly responded to calls for Bowyer to go with the absolute assertion that Venkys would muck it up and we would end up with someone worse.

The other one was that "no-one would want the job."

To ignore that is to "twist the past".

[47er]

I can't be assed to dig up his posts but I distinctly remember him claiming that this was our natural level and that we should have only considered sacking Bowyer if we were mired in the relegation zone. I'm sure others will back me up here. He did say this, right?

I actually think he went farther than this. PB asserted that Bowyer's job was to keep us in this division and he would support him till that changed.

[Stuart]

I don't know about "agenda", I think that word is over-used on here. However a real lot of posters,(can't possibly quantify it) regularly responded to calls for Bowyer to go with the absolute assertion that Venkys would muck it up and we would end up with someone worse.

The other one was that "no-one would want the job."

To ignore that is to "twist the past".

Ok, for 'agenda' read 'theme' or 'tone'. It is an over used word I agree, with different meanings.

I agree with your post though. Exactly right.

[JBiz]

I don't know about "agenda", I think that word is over-used on here. However a real lot of posters,(can't possibly quantify it) regularly responded to calls for Bowyer to go with the absolute assertion that Venkys would muck it up and we would end up with someone worse.

The other one was that "no-one would want the job."

To ignore that is to "twist the past".

You ignore the part where you explain how it wouldn't have been surprising for them to dispense of bowyer for another rookie - writing that whole section of history off as "we'll never do better" agenda is the very definition of twisting the past, or cherry picking parts selectively.

Similar to personally remarking on PBs posting style or content as opposed to discussing - I seem to recall that's why he left, not "under a cloud with bowyer"...(or what I thought I read pre edit!)

[47er]

I'm at a loss to see how Parson Blue's posting comes into it?

However your substantive point has been answered many, many times. Let me paraphrase it:

"Yes, we know Venkys are stupid and quite capable of making yet another dumb decision.

However faced with the CERTAINTY of further stagnation leading to relegation this season or next with Bowyer, as opposed to the POSSIBILITY of Venkys replacing him with someone worse we'd prefer to take the risk. He has to go."

You don't remember that line of argument?

[JBiz]

47er, I have no problem with you holding the view that despite anything on the contrary, the right decision was a new manager. I'll never agree- it's easy to say it was the best decision in hindsight because of the proper appointment, however I'd be lying to myself if I thought it would turn out like that when GB was still around.

What I do have a problem with is the suggestion of a MB agenda based on nothing but a posters perspective. Childish way of winding oh others in a non direct way.

Parsons posts come into it because of the personal jibes made in past few days - even if one was edited out quickly. Because PB stuck to his own opinion, he was derided by idiots right left and centre. Fine, agree with him or disagree- but ultimately too many people crossed the line. He gave nothing but time and effort to this forum, yet posters would sooner call him out as "Gary's mate" etc.

[47er]

Well moan about PB if you want to. i didn't treat him badly as you believe others did so why throw him into a response to me like I'm responsible?

We all cop some stick from time to time. You either respond, put up with it or leave.

PB left, his choice, not he end of the world or the MB is it?

Anyway I gave you the response to the bit you complained I hadn't responded to so you then go on about PB which is unrelated.

We agree to disagree, PB I'll leave to you.