[Archived] Cardiff City (A) Match Thread - 2Nd January 2016

[booth]

Can anybody tell me why 2 months ago the concensus of opinion was that our performances were all deemed the manager's fault and now they are all deemed the players fault? We obviously have to give PL more time but it seems to me that some have put him onto the protected species list. Why should he be judged any differently to any other appointment that we have made? With just 3 good managers out of twelve attempts in the past 20 years I'd have thought it sensible to proceed with caution with each new appointment. There is an age old truism in football that you are only as good as your last match.

Because he's inherited a depleted team that was already unbalanced and lacking in quality.

Because he hasn't had several seasons.

Two months ago it was the managers fault because he put this team together and failed to achieve anything with them when they were at their strongest.

Besides this lets also point out (again) that even with this awful team and performances he's doing better than Bowyer.

And he has experience at Wycombe and Norwich to suggest that with time and support he will do better. With Bowyer any faith was baseless, the same with any other manager since Allardyce left.

[Reedy You're A Star]

Oh, but THAT performance against Burnley. That was one for the scrapbook.

That we lost.. (again)

[Neil Weaver]

Bowyers managerial stock is rising each week.

There are some right sensitive souls round here. Don't see what's wrong with Jimmy's post myself. We all (I think) want Lambert to do well, but in just the same way that Kalanic became a world beater when he wasn't playing or had moved on - or just for Topper's sake, Rochina - similar for Bowyer. If you lived through it, they were pretty ordinary but things become rosier as time passes.

[JAL]

A bit harsh but another Duffy assist to the opponents ?

[tomphil]

It's like people have forgotten we got tubbed 3-0 by MK Dons, lost to Fulham, got dumped out of the cup by relegation-threatened L1 Shrewsbury.

Oh, but THAT performance against Burnley. That was one for the scrapbook.

It was no better than the first half v Forest either really. Also factor in Burnley away from home tend to let the other side play, stay compact, solid and hit on the break and set pieces.

[Amo]

There are some right sensitive souls round here. Don't see what's wrong with Jimmy's post myself. We all (I think) want Lambert to do well, but in just the same way that Kalanic became a world beater when he wasn't playing or had moved on - or just for Topper's sake, Rochina - similar for Bowyer. If you lived through it, they were pretty ordinary but things become rosier as time passes.

There's everything wrong with Jimmy's post. 3 wins in 17 games... Lambert loses a few on the bounce and suddenly Bowyer's the new Special One?

Is that same Kalinic now scoring bucketfuls for Fiorentina?

[JBiz]

People's previous defence of Bowyer is colouring their judgment, even now, nothing wrong with being defiant but now it's just getting boring.

.

In my humble opinion it is the exact opposite. The same people who spent 2 years attacking the club and GB about interviews, tactics, transfer, substitutions etc are the same people who are shouting down any criticism of the crap served up in the last 4 hours of football for us! That is not defiance, but it is boring. It's picking an argument to suit past agenda.

Jimmy made a good point how poor performances against average teams are now blamed on the players and not tactics. That is the very definition of double standards. I spent ages trying to discuss how selling players and replacing them at a fraction of cost or wage would make it harder to get back up, yet that was ignored for the black and white favorite; "managers not good enough"

Ofcourse it will take time, and thankfully nobody is asking for the bullet - but that doesn't mean criticism cannot come.

If we lose 4 or even more on the spin, I'm going to start worrying a lot because that would point to issues between manager and players - not just "the players are @#/?", "I'd only miss rhodes" or "it's the holiday camp attitude they got off gaz".

[booth]

Criticism should come if it's deserved but right now it's premature and some of the comments are cringeworthy.

[JBiz]

I agree some go to far - but we've played poorly and there is no denying it. I found the black/white mentality of posters far more cringing, like an episode of the office.

I also find it brilliantly ironic when a poster (who previously would slag every finite detail of GBs approach and tactics) goes away to Cardiff, watches us gets beat and then comes here to slag players and fans around them!

I'm not stupid enough to expect instant success but increased expectation + worse performances will warrant a high level of criticism.

[AllRoverAsia]

Criticism should come if it's deserved but right now it's premature and some of the comments are cringeworthy.

I keep having to keep checking on how long Lambert's been manager but it's still just 8 games so far and still not one full transfer window.

With the mounting criticism of Lambert I was being to think he'd failed over a 3 year cycle - but it turns out that was someone else.

Quote: ''crap served up in the last 4 hours of football'' - I had to read this a few times. It does say 4 as in FOUR. Unreal.

For the sake of balance it's worth noting that many who favour Lambert also say the football being played is poor.

IMO we will finish this Season just within the top half and if we do then job well done by PL and whomever our players are then.

[JBiz]

I just don't get how criticism isn't warranted? Nobody is saying anything other than "he will be judged in time" but for some reason you seem to think saying we've been crap is tantamount saying he's failed.

4 hours as in 4 and a half games. If you can point out a part of our recent history where we've lost more than 3 on the spin without scoring, I might be more inclined to believe this is nothing more than a minor blip.

With the mounting criticism of Lambert I was being to think he'd failed over a 3 year cycle - but it turns out that was someone else.

.

If you keep bringing this back to GB - you are as guilty as thread derailing as anyone.

Believe it or not, the part you quoted is opinion not fact. If you wanna debate why that is- lobby mike to reopen the GB thread because I'm sure the rest of us are bored stiff if it.

[punerover]

To me its as simple as this. If Lambert was trying out different players, formations, playing styles, etc which i think he was, its ok to have a small blip as it takes time. Even Bowyer has lost 3 in a row once or twice but it does not mean he lost the dressing room. And what is there to criticise? That PL is trying to defend from the front? Playing a high pressing game so that the opposition does not see much of the ball and in turn have less chances of scoring? Not playing a 1-2-3-4 or an equally crazy formation? Dropping the entire squad and using the under 21's? I want to know from those criticising PL to tell me what exactly is he NOT doing that the expect he should be doing.

[DE.]

The last few games have been rubbish, absolutely. I don't think anybody can deny that.

Does it make me pine for Bowyer, though? Absolutely not. It was the right time for him to move on, and unless one thinks otherwise there is no reason to bring him up in relation to Lambert's current tenure. That goes for both people praising and criticising Lambert - why bring GB into it? He's gone, time for us all to move on.

We have the players we have, and it's fair to say Lambert needs to get more out of them. He needs more time than 8 games though. Let's see what the next month brings, hopefully by the end of it we'll be stronger as a squad and performing at a more acceptable level.

[JBiz]

Does it make me pine for Bowyer, though? Absolutely not. It was the right time for him to move on, and unless one thinks otherwise there is no reason to bring him up in relation to Lambert's current tenure. That goes for both people praising and criticising Lambert - why bring GB into it? He's gone, time for us all to move on.

Exactly - it's just I haven't seen anyone sound like they are pining for bowyer! That's just what's thrown at anyone criticising such woeful football.

? I want to know from those criticising PL to tell me what exactly is he NOT doing that the expect he should be doing.

Winning games. Forgetting any other manager for a minute, his job (as publicised on rovers.co.uk and in paper) is to get us promoted but so far he's well short of making us even look like winning games!

I do think he will do it though, and sooner than others are suggesting! He deserves time to get his squad right but that's no excuse whilst we have what we have!

Wee with the willy etc

[DE.]

Exactly - it's just I haven't seen anyone sound like they are pining for bowyer! That's just what's thrown at anyone criticising such woeful football.

I'm not sure chief. There are a few on here who I think are mischief making, perhaps because they feel victimised from backing GB for longer than others. From what I remember even Bowyer's most ardent fans had conceded it was time for him to leave - including the likes of blueboy and chaddy - so I'd be surprised if anybody would seriously want GB back now, regardless of what is currently happening.

We just need to forget about Bowyer and focus on Lambert. Whether we've got a good team or not is up for debate, but I'd rather we focused on the players themselves at this point rather than who recruited them. There are many who I'd advocate moving on if suitable replacements are available, Holloway's comments about our team being "stale" are spot on IMV. Too many in the team who have coasted for far too long and need to either perform properly or go somewhere else. After the last few desperate performances I think/hope Lambert is of the same mindset.

[JBiz]

We just need to forget about Bowyer and focus on Lambert.

Very true. I'm sure you agree that this is also regardless of what peoples persuasion of the past regime was! This includes excusing limp half arsed performance against Cardiff and Bolton, as a result of a perceived mentality driven into the players.

The extra criticism I feel is more of a result of posting high expectations initially, if PL had said this will take a long time - others may not be so vociferous.

My own personal position is always open to change - if we lose a few more in a row, it'll be hard not to be extremely underwhelmed and disappointed in the (not forgetting who the "buck" involves) manager.

I think we will get a response sooner or later though - from what PL has achieved so far. I don't know much about his time at other clubs but he comes across to me as talented despite what we've witnessed. The added bonus of the other ex managers in the coaching team with him gives me confidence long term.

[DE.]

Very true. I'm sure you agree that this is also regardless of what peoples persuasion of the past regime was! This includes excusing limp half arsed performance against Cardiff and Bolton, as a result of a perceived mentality driven into the players.

The extra criticism I feel is more of a result of posting high expectations initially, if PL had said this will take a long time - others may not be so vociferous.

My own personal position is always open to change - if we lose a few more in a row, it'll be hard not to be extremely underwhelmed and disappointed in the (not forgetting who the "buck" involves) manager.

I think we will get a response sooner or later though - from what PL has achieved so far. I don't know much about his time at other clubs but he comes across to me as talented despite what we've witnessed. The added bonus of the other ex managers in the coaching team with him gives me confidence long term.

To be fair to PL he did say it wouldn't necessarily click right away. That was perhaps forgotten after some excellent initial results - but even in those games, our performance levels were not especially high.

I agree that in time we should see significant improvement. As you say, there's a wealth of experience in both Lambert and his team. They will be well aware that current performances are not good enough and seeking ways to improve, whether that be through new players or experimenting with training and match tactics.

My biggest disappointment with Lambert so far has been his insistence on playing Koita ahead of Lawrence. Neither have been spectacular this season and I appreciate that Koita suits the long ball style Lambert has been trying to implement, but it really, really isn't working. Until we get in a big man with more quality I'd prefer us to give Lawrence more game time and try to adapt our style to suit him and Rhodes as opposed to Koita and Rhodes. I haven't got any problem with a long ball style if it gets results, but right now we need something different and if the only other option in the target man role is Brown I'd rather we try our luck with Lawrence behind JR.

[booth]

Is Lawrence carrying an injury?

[47er]

Hmmm yet another post from Jimmy's account that is from Drog's IP address...

Tread very carefully please.

I've lost track here. Is Theno banned, if so what for? Or has he taken his ball home?

[47er]

In my humble opinion it is the exact opposite. The same people who spent 2 years attacking the club and GB about interviews, tactics, transfer, substitutions etc are the same people who are shouting down any criticism of the crap served up in the last 4 hours of football for us! That is not defiance, but it is boring. It's picking an argument to suit past agenda.

Jimmy made a good point how poor performances against average teams are now blamed on the players and not tactics. That is the very definition of double standards. I spent ages trying to discuss how selling players and replacing them at a fraction of cost or wage would make it harder to get back up, yet that was ignored for the black and white favorite; "managers not good enough"

Ofcourse it will take time, and thankfully nobody is asking for the bullet - but that doesn't mean criticism cannot come.

If we lose 4 or even more on the spin, I'm going to start worrying a lot because that would point to issues between manager and players - not just "the players are @#/?", "I'd only miss rhodes" or "it's the holiday camp attitude they got off gaz".

But,the new manager's only been here for a few weeks!!! Your criticisms would be fine at the end of the season or next season.

Fans gave Bowyer time, they wanted him to succeed, they recognised what he was up against. But the criticism came when it was obvious he was not up to it, after nearly 3 years in the job!

Those who defended Bowyer to the end could not wait to put the boot in to his successor.

That's the crux of it.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Three goalless defeats on the spin would have seen this forum go into meltdown under Bowyer.

Likewise, he would have been slaughtered for bringing a player in on loan, for a position that wasn't a priority and then sending that player back to his parent club without playing a game.

Posters pointing these things out don't want Lambert to fail, that would be some kind of masochistic madness. Double standards are being pointed out, that's all. Clearly some people don't like that.

[K-Hod]

Because Bowyer had been here for 2 and a half years he'd had time to prove himself, and we knew what we were getting! Lambert's been here 11 games and whilst criticism of him is fine, talking about him like he's been here the same amount of time Bowyer had is unfair. That's double standards for you!

[BlueMonday]

As far as the Bowyer, Lambert arguments go there are valid points on both sides.

But whats the point? Its like some form of self flagellation.

For the good of the Club we ALL support, isn't it time to draw a line under it and look forward. There are potentially difficult times ahead, but also potentially good times.

[oldjamfan1]

As far as the Bowyer, Lambert arguments go there are valid points on both sides.

But whats the point? Its like some form of self flagellation.

For the good of the Club we ALL support, isn't it time to draw a line under it and look forward. There are potentially difficult times ahead, but also potentially good times.

How dare you come onto this message board and start talking sense!

[BlueMonday]

How dare you come onto this message board and start talking sense!

Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking.

Anyway, what about that Bowyer fella. What a liability!