[Archived] Virtual Reality

[Guest]

Well the recommended spec graphics card is an Nvidia GTX 970 which is around £250 for the cheapest. Funnily enough my work laptop was not up to scratch going off the checker

I don't think any laptop would be! Laptops... A pseudonym for disposable computers.

[DE.]

HTC Vive pre-orders begin on Feb 29.

Unlike Oculus, the Vive has full-room motion sensing. In theory this means you can see everything around you whilst being in the VR world, should you need to. So if you wanted to grab a drink or eat, you could do so without having to take the headset off.

If Vive is within $200 of the Oculus Rift it's arguably the better choice, especially as it will come with the VR controllers, unlike the Rift. If it's upwards of $1000 that will make it a very hard sell, especially with the PC required to power the headset costing at least the same amount if not more.

[DE.]

PSVR announced at £350. It won't be as high-end of an experience as Oculus/Vive but much more affordable and a more sensible choice for first-gen users IMO.

Due to be released around October.

[K-Hod]

How feasible is it that VR would come with the next gen of consoles (PS5 for example) like it is with Kinect for Xbox One? I'm just thinking at the prices quoted that's the time it will be widely taken up.

[DE.]

How feasible is it that VR would come with the next gen of consoles (PS5 for example) like it is with Kinect for Xbox One? I'm just thinking at the prices quoted that's the time it will be widely taken up.

I'm not convinced there will even be a next-gen of consoles to be honest, I think this might be the last before things take a fully digital turn.

Assuming there is another generation, though, it probably won't be for another 8-10 years. By then VR may be bundled but it'll be a case of how well it's done in the preceding years. Manufacturing costs for the devices should be lower by that point so it shouldn't have too much of an adverse affect on the overall price. Oculus struck a big blow with their silly pricing (Vive was always expected to be expensive) so PSVR is, at the moment, the only hope for early widespread adoption IMO.

[Baz]

PSVR announced at £350. It won't be as high-end of an experience as Oculus/Vive but much more affordable and a more sensible choice for first-gen users IMO.

Due to be released around October.

Still priced far too high for the mass market, It's more than the console itself.

They should have brought it in at £150 tops, even if it meant subsidising, so to gain some market share so there was a sufficient base for game developers to be able to justify budgets for decent games.

Unfortunately I think this will be a big failure, despite my thoughts the technology could be very good. Reminds me of Sega and the Mega CD, something they never recovered from.

Also the headset only comes with some playable demos, and you also need to purchase a playstation camera (£40 if you don't have one), plus 2x playstation move controllers (£25 each for the ps3 ones - not sure if ps4 compatible) "for optimal play".

[Amo]

VR is a gimmick and always will be. It'll never take off domestically in this lifetime.

[DE.]

Still priced far too high for the mass market, It's more than the console itself.

They should have brought it in at £150 tops, even if it meant subsidising, so to gain some market share so there was a sufficient base for game developers to be able to justify budgets for decent games.

Unfortunately I think this will be a big failure, despite my thoughts the technology could be very good. Reminds me of Sega and the Mega CD, something they never recovered from.

Also the headset only comes with some playable demos, and you also need to purchase a playstation camera (£40 if you don't have one), plus 2x playstation move controllers (£25 each for the ps3 ones - not sure if ps4 compatible) "for optimal play".

First gen stuff like this is always high priced. Sony are bleeding money everywhere except the PlayStation division, so I'm not sure they can afford to make any more of a loss on PSVR than they already will be. Keep in mind the PSVR headset has its own processing units, the PS4 itself doesn't have the necessary power alone to handle the graphics or sheer amount of data processing. When you consider that for Oculus and Vive you also have to buy a £1000+ PC, even with the PS Eye/Wand added in PSVR is still the cheaper option by far.

It's interesting that you bring up the Mega CD. In a lot of ways there are parallels to the introduction of CD based technology. At the time you also had the 3DO and the Philips CDi consoles, both overpriced but the first machines to exclusively use CDs as a data format. In a way, the past is being repeated as below:

3DO - HTC Vive

Philips CDi - Oculus Rift

Sega Mega CD - Sony PSVR

A lot will depend on the developers. The above machines may all have been failures, but ultimately CD technology did make the breakthrough when Sony released the original PlayStation. The reason for that was that developers saw the huge benefits of CD based technology and were willing to get behind the first company who were able to do it right. The question is whether they see the same potential in VR. If they do, they will continue to develop for it, even with a small initial install base. If not, VR will once again fall by the wayside.

Will the first generation of VR machines be successful? Probably not. But much like the 3DO/CDi/Mega CD, they will bring VR back into the mainstream and this time there is some serious money behind it. Even a moderate install base will encourage companies to push on, and by the second and third generation we will be seeing much cheaper models and a much greater selection of games and apps available. I wouldn't write VR off just yet, gaming and entertainment on the whole is due an upgrade and there aren't many places left to go.

[Baz]

First gen stuff like this is always high priced. Sony are bleeding money everywhere except the PlayStation division, so I'm not sure they can afford to make any more of a loss on PSVR than they already will be. Keep in mind the PSVR headset has its own processing units, the PS4 itself doesn't have the necessary power alone to handle the graphics or sheer amount of data processing. When you consider that for Oculus and Vive you also have to buy a £1000+ PC, even with the PS Eye/Wand added in PSVR is still the cheaper option by far.

It's interesting that you bring up the Mega CD. In a lot of ways there are parallels to the introduction of CD based technology. At the time you also had the 3DO and the Philips CDi consoles, both overpriced but the first machines to exclusively use CDs as a data format. In a way, the past is being repeated as below:

3DO - HTC Vive

Philips CDi - Oculus Rift

Sega Mega CD - Sony PSVR

A lot will depend on the developers. The above machines may all have been failures, but ultimately CD technology did make the breakthrough when Sony released the original PlayStation. The reason for that was that developers saw the huge benefits of CD based technology and were willing to get behind the first company who were able to do it right. The question is whether they see the same potential in VR. If they do, they will continue to develop for it, even with a small initial install base. If not, VR will once again fall by the wayside.

Will the first generation of VR machines be successful? Probably not. But much like the 3DO/CDi/Mega CD, they will bring VR back into the mainstream and this time there is some serious money behind it. Even a moderate install base will encourage companies to push on, and by the second and third generation we will be seeing much cheaper models and a much greater selection of games and apps available. I wouldn't write VR off just yet, gaming and entertainment on the whole is due an upgrade and there aren't many places left to go.

I just think that £500 for the set-up and a couple of games is going to place this beyond the budget of your typical Christmas mass buyers, and that could be crucial.

I'm surprised so many developers have signed up, given the pricing. Although I think many may wait until the pre-order numbers come through, before they really commit to big development programs.

Don't get me wrong, I think the technology will be good, I've watched a few YouTube videos and can really see how this can give a totally different way of gaming, but I just think the budget is too high.

As someone who wears glasses (no option for contacts), I also don't know how that will affect my usage of the VR, so Id really need to try it out before committing £500 to this.

Re the megaCD, from memory, it was £350 on top of the base unit, had little direct gaming developed for it, and therefore sold few units. The PS1 was priced at around £300 all in, and was well supported from day 1.

[Biddy]

ok, slightly diverting the topic here but I think the PC first established the CDROM as a viable medium. The first major release that sold in it's thousands was 7th Guest which really showed what a good story and full motion video could do. That was released in April 1993 with the Playstation coming a year and a half later.

Of course there were other games released from 1991 onwards on PC-CDROM like the redeveloped "Loom" in 1991 and then again with a talky version in 1992. Looks like Kings Quest 5 came out with a "talky" version in 1991 as well.

Back on topic, £350 plus Playstation camera is too much for me, but at least Sony look like they have a bucket load of developers supporting it. Could well be the one to watch out for.

[DE.]

I just think that £500 for the set-up and a couple of games is going to place this beyond the budget of your typical Christmas mass buyers, and that could be crucial.

I'm surprised so many developers have signed up, given the pricing. Although I think many may wait until the pre-order numbers come through, before they really commit to big development programs.

Pre-order numbers have apparently been very strong. I think the amount of developers signing up to VR is proof that the medium is being backed properly this time, and they see potential in getting into the game early on. It'll take them time to adapt to how VR works - much like in the early 90's when 3D games first appeared on consoles.

As far as the Christmas market goes, if somebody already has a PS4 and/or the wand/PS Eye I think £350 would be acceptable if the marketing is done correctly. People throw away money on all sorts of crap thanks to good marketing, that's why so many are in stupid amounts of debt. I do agree that buying a new PS4 and the PSVR headset for £500+ is going to put off a lot of people. But again, I doubt Sony are expecting massive uptake from a first gen system. They'll be more than happy with a moderate install base to begin with.

As someone who wears glasses (no option for contacts), I also don't know how that will affect my usage of the VR, so Id really need to try it out before committing £500 to this.

A lot of the people attending VR shows are saying the headsets are fine with glasses, so that shouldn't be a problem. Without support for people wearing glasses they'd be cutting out a huge portion of their potential market.

Re the megaCD, from memory, it was £350 on top of the base unit, had little direct gaming developed for it, and therefore sold few units. The PS1 was priced at around £300 all in, and was well supported from day 1.

The Mega CD was an interesting idea but just came too early. The technology utilised did not make the best use of CD technology, with slow read times and games which focused on crappy FMV style point and clicks and slightly better versions of games that already existed on the Mega Drive. Certainly not worth the high price it was being offered at. Incredibly Sega then made the same mistakes, to an even worse degree, with the 32X.

Sega's biggest mistake, IMO, was building the Saturn as a 2D-based console when the market was pointing towards 3D gaming. They tried a late fix by throwing another processor into the mix, but that just made the console incredibly complicated to program for in 3D. The PlayStation meanwhile was a lot easier to code for, significantly cheaper (increasing the install base) and on top of that Sony were offering extremely generous developer rates. There was no reason not to program for the PlayStation, and every reason to avoid the Saturn.

ok, slightly diverting the topic here but I think the PC first established the CDROM as a viable medium. The first major release that sold in it's thousands was 7th Guest which really showed what a good story and full motion video could do. That was released in April 1993 with the Playstation coming a year and a half later.

Of course there were other games released from 1991 onwards on PC-CDROM like the redeveloped "Loom" in 1991 and then again with a talky version in 1992. Looks like Kings Quest 5 came out with a "talky" version in 1991 as well.

Yeah, I was thinking more on the level of consoles than PC gaming, as that was (and to an extent still is) very niche at the time due to the expense.

[Baz]

Re the glasses, I know that they have built these with glasses wearers in mind, but my prescription is pretty poor. For example, I can watch a 3D film at a cinema, but it gives me a splitting headache, wearing 2 pairs of glasses isn't comfortable and I find my eys watering if the action is too intense.

Therefore I think I'll need to really test it out before I know. Im hoping there will be demo units in shops for people to test before they buy.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Re the glasses, I know that they have built these with glasses wearers in mind, but my prescription is pretty poor. For example, I can watch a 3D film at a cinema, but it gives me a splitting headache, wearing 2 pairs of glasses isn't comfortable and I find my eys watering if the action is too intense.

Therefore I think I'll need to really test it out before I know. Im hoping there will be demo units in shops for people to test before they buy.

Had similar experiences myself with 3D glasses and a pair of specs underneath.

Kotaku have an article about VR headsets and wearing glasses:

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/03/18/how-comfortable-are-vr-headsets-with-glasses

[DE.]

I wear glasses myself so I agree it's a factor that has to be taken into consideration. I suppose we'll only really know when these things are available to demo in stores, and we can try them ourselves...

[adopted scouser]

That new ride at Alton Towers looks fab. You wear a VR headset while you're on a real coaster.

[Tom]

Had a couple of hours with a vive last night, pretty mind blowing and much better than the Rift that I tired last year.

I was messing around in one game not doing much and then I went to put the controller down on a table that didn't exist in real life

[DE.]

I do like the look of the Vive, less so the price, especially including the monster PC you'd need to run the thing. As much as I'd like to be a first gen adopter, I think I'll have to either wait until PSVR or until the cheaper second gen products arrive.

[Stuart]

Has anyone got Google cardboard? Any good? Novelty value?

[DE.]

For a first time VR user Google Cardboard is surprisingly fun. The cardboard can get a bit grimy, though. It's an extremely limited VR experience but for the price definitely worth a go imo.

[DE.]

My dad picked up the PSVR headset today. Unfortunately he didn't realise it didn't come with the PS4 so that's coming tomorrow. Will report back...

[DE.]

Having not used the Oculus or Vive, all I can say is the PSVR is really, really good. I've only been on demos but the immersion is definitely there, and once accessories start coming out (light guns and other weapons, mainly) it'll be very cool. Using the controller obviously takes you out of the experience a bit. My dad was absolutely floored by it - I wasn't quite as stunned, but it was a great experience and there was enough to make me think this could definitely take off once word of mouth spreads. Anybody completely new to VR will be amazed, and people who do know of it will be pleasantly surprised by how well Sony have done on their first attempt (imo).

It's very comfortable to wear and once you adjust it to get in focus the picture clarity is fine. Graphics in the background are a bit blurred, but you don't really notice it when you're playing something. Well, I didn't anyway!

I decided to take the plunge and get a PS4 Slim w/FIFA 17 and a PSVR headset. Set me back a bit but I think there are going to be some fantastic titles released for this thing in the future. I did consider getting a PS4 Pro, but I'm not going to be getting a 4K TV and I'm not sure the slight improvement in framerate and graphic sharpness is worth the extra £100+ you'd have to shell out. It's okay as it is.

I think ShopTo still have the PSVR & Camera bundle available if anybody still wants one but can't find it anywhere. Might be worth holding off to see if there are any Black Friday deals, but considering how popular this thing is (sold out practically everywhere already) I don't think there will be much incentive for retailers to discount it. You might find some discounted PS4 models on Black Friday/Cyber Monday, but ShopTo are also doing the PS4 Slim & FIFA 17 for £249.99 which is reasonable.

[davulsukur]

Good work DE. I've not used a VR headset of any kind as yet but I'm tempted to look into it further. I think now that they are hitting the console's, VR will take off alot more.

[DE.]

I went back and forth on being an "early adopter", but realised if nobody was an early adopter there wouldn't be a second generation to decide about anyway! I can't afford to spend £1k+ on the likes of Oculus or Vive right now, but I'm happy to support Sony if they are producing this kind of quality.

However, it is worth noting that this is my first current-gen console purchase, so even FIFA 17's graphics blow me away VR is just the cherry on top.

The only reason I can see for being disappointed with PSVR is if you go in with wholly unrealistic expectations. The picture quality is not as good as your HDTV. The camera does occasionally lose motion tracking if you stray too far. The headset can be a little awkward to adjust. The graphics in the distance will inevitably be a bit blurred.

But you know what, I didn't notice any of those things last night, and that was just playing a silly yet amazing little platforming game called "Robot Rescue". It's the type of game that would just be another cutesy platformer in any other environment, but VR makes it an incredibly fun experience.

Of course, the novelty will wear off over time, but there are still so many amazing things that can be done with the current tech and will be done in future with second/third-gen tech that the next decade is almost certain to contain a constant string of 'wow' moments for anybody experiencing the consumer VR landscape.

[Baz]

Got my psvr and am impressed with the technology, however the launch games are either very short, a bit gimmicky or pretty poor IMO.

The developers are obviously either still developing, or are dipping their toes in with a small offering until they see the market uptake.

Drive club I think is the best Ive played, but even that has shortcomings, but Im excited now for the new gran turismo game, which I think will blow it out of the water.

The scale of the screen when it comes to space / planets etc is an awesome experience too, hoping the xwing starwars battlefront dlc is up to scratch.

Still think the price is too high, especially when you figure in move controllers and cameras (hint - bought mine 2nd hand on cex 6 months ago for less than £30 all in), but if the games arrive then they will sell more, and the price will drop.

Would like to know what difference you get with the ps4 pro on the headset - see if it's worthwhile upgrading- saw last week people upgrading with trade in from ps4 500gb to ps4 pro 1tb for extra 150, which is tempting if there is a marked difference.

[DE.]

Got my psvr and am impressed with the technology, however the launch games are either very short, a bit gimmicky or pretty poor IMO.

The developers are obviously either still developing, or are dipping their toes in with a small offering until they see the market uptake.

Drive club I think is the best Ive played, but even that has shortcomings, but Im excited now for the new gran turismo game, which I think will blow it out of the water.

The scale of the screen when it comes to space / planets etc is an awesome experience too, hoping the xwing starwars battlefront dlc is up to scratch.

Still think the price is too high, especially when you figure in move controllers and cameras (hint - bought mine 2nd hand on cex 6 months ago for less than £30 all in), but if the games arrive then they will sell more, and the price will drop.

Would like to know what difference you get with the ps4 pro on the headset - see if it's worthwhile upgrading- saw last week people upgrading with trade in from ps4 500gb to ps4 pro 1tb for extra 150, which is tempting if there is a marked difference.

The launch titles were always going to be a little thin on the ground - devs are having to learn an entirely new way of developing games and experiences. I expect some of the best VR stuff over the next year or so will be extras in normal games, rather than full on VR games.

This is why, for me, having a PS4 Pro isn't a big deal right now. I'd only be getting it for VR, and it will be at least a year before we start getting really good VR games - and possibly even longer before devs are able to tap the full potential of the PS4 Pro. A standard PS4 will run the first and second wave of VR titles just fine, I don't think the PS4 Pro will make much of a difference short-term.

As far as price, considering the Oculus is £500+ and the Vive £700+ I think £350 is pretty reasonable. Especially as both Oculus and Vive have more far more pronounced SDE and God Ray issues which can wreck a VR experience - PSVR has hardly any of the former and absolutely none of the latter.

First-gen new tech is always expensive. The first major North-American/European CD-Rom consoles (Panasonic 3DO & Philips CDi) were £600-£700 at launch. Even the Sega CD was, at launch, around £200. Taking inflation into account that would make the 3DO and CDi even more expensive than the Vive and Rift, and the Sega CD around the same price as PSVR - with the latter being far superior even within the context of modern technology.

With that said, I agree that the Move controllers are now stupidly overpriced. If Sony were smart they would have kept the prices on these down in order to allow people to get the maximum out of the VR experience and create really positive word of mouth. Actually, if they were smart they would have used different tech entirely and infrared beams... but I'm guessing they didn't have the resources to do that concurrently with launching the PSVR.

I'm happy to wait for better VR games to come out and for the current launch titles to drop a little in price. I don't really want to spend £50 on the likes of EVE. I just got Stars Wars Battlefront for £12.50 from Tesco and heard they're adding a free VR DLC to that, which will be cool.