[Archived] Theoretical Question!

[VinjayV4]

Well I don't really care how "nice" he is. Just impossible to forget his record of losing and you don't have to be a geek to know his reputation. That sort of thing can't just be removed from the back of your mind. Bit unrelated but perhaps too many "nice" staff at Ewood let snakes like Agnew avoid detection for so long. You need to be ruthless in football being a "nice" guy has nothing to do with winning titles. Unless you're a "nice" guy that can actually win them.

[T J Hooker]

bloody hell, the legend of Vinjay was far more fun than the real thing, chill out man.

[VinjayV4]

bloody hell, the legend of Vinjay was far more fun than the real thing, chill out man.

I'm perfectly "chilled out" ok? People thought he was a nice guy at Chelsea and they replaced him with a better manager who isn't quite as nice. Got my opinion on Ranieri and that's that. On that note lets "argue" no more about it.

[BlueMonday]

To me Rovers winning the League will and can never be bettered.

End of.

[onlyonejackwalker]

To me Rovers winning the League will and can never be bettered.

End of.

Both fairy tales but I tend to agree. From where we started especially. United had a top squad back then that would have walked the league this season. City have been poor away, Chelski all over the place, United have struggled for goals and Arsenal are still lacking despite Czech.

No trophies given out in February.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Great topic!

Personally think if Leicester managed it, their achievement would beat ours on 2 major fronts. The platform the title challenge was built upon, ours a competitive 2nd place, theirs a relegation battle. The money invested in the 2 squads, ours comparable with any club in the country, theirs a shoestring compared to the big boys.

However one front I think we beat them hands down on how formidable is the opposition. We took on and beat a Ferguson Man Utd team, which almost by definition means it was a team that dominated English football. Our win in 95 interrupted what would have been 5 consecutive league titles for Man U. Make no mistake about it, we were faced with truly awesome opposition. I would say Leicester have had an easy ride by comparison this season, Man City have been comical at the back without Kompany. Arsenal have flattered to deceive after Christmas just as they always do. Spurs are in the same position as Leicester, totally inexperienced with where they find themselves.

I think Leicester's achievement would edge it but they're both phenomenal and a credit to all the characters involved.

[VinjayV4]

Great topic!

Personally think if Leicester managed it, their achievement would beat ours on 2 major fronts. The platform the title challenge was built upon, ours a competitive 2nd place, theirs a relegation battle. The money invested in the 2 squads, ours comparable with any club in the country, theirs a shoestring compared to the big boys.

However one front I think we beat them hands down on how formidable is the opposition. We took on and beat a Ferguson Man Utd team, which almost by definition means it was a team that dominated English football. Our win in 95 interrupted what would have been 5 consecutive league titles for Man U. Make no mistake about it, we were faced with truly awesome opposition. I would say Leicester have had an easy ride by comparison this season, Man City have been comical at the back without Kompany. Arsenal have flattered to deceive after Christmas just as they always do. Spurs are in the same position as Leicester, totally inexperienced with where they find themselves.

I think Leicester's achievement would edge it but they're both phenomenal and a credit to all the characters involved.

That's the way I look at it. The 1st place finish wasn't a jump from the lower leagues. It was a jump from 2nd place. Of course its only natural to see where Rovers had come from in a short space of time but really from 93 onwards it was irrelevant. Rovers established themselves very quickly and its a bit disrespectful to the likes of Shearer/Sutton (English transfer records plus Flowers was record for a keeper) to consider it a shocking title victory. Jack had a clear plan in place and really the only difference in his plan was it happened a year earlier than he expected.

Just want to bring up Newcastle again (yes they didn't quite get the job done but they came from where Rovers did) and Leeds certainly didn't have a better squad than Rovers just 3 years earlier.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

That's the way I look at it. The 1st place finish wasn't a jump from the lower leagues. It was a jump from 2nd place. Of course its only natural to see where Rovers had come from in a short space of time but really from 93 onwards it was irrelevant. Rovers established themselves very quickly and its a bit disrespectful to the likes of Shearer/Sutton (English transfer records plus Flowers was record for a keeper) to consider it a shocking title victory. Jack had a clear plan in place and really the only difference in his plan was it happened a year earlier than he expected.

Just want to bring up Newcastle again (yes they didn't quite get the job done but they came from where Rovers did) and Leeds certainly didn't have a better squad than Rovers just 3 years earlier.

Some good points there about the quality of our squad and how they/we should have been pretty demanding of ourselves that we win it. Kinda chimes with my opinion of how that season went. Frankly I think we absolutely dominated the title race from start to finish and were far better than Man U. The only reason it was 1 point instead of 10 is 2 refereeing decisions that I consider to be beyond atrocious, into the realm of sinister and conspiratorial, to this day. Berg's sending off in the home game when a 3-year old introduced to football the week before could have immediately stated he got the ball. Sherwood's disallowed goal in the away game for a "push" by Shearer that having watched the video 10-20 times still looks like the slightest of brushes/no contact at all.

Doubt it will ever come out but I remain convinced there was something going on in the FA or with Sky or whatever that season that was intent on Rovers not winning the league. There's just no way to explain 2 one-in-a-decade level of diabolical decisions like those 2 happening in coincidentally the 2 games between the title rivals. Those 2 decisions took 4 points off Rovers (we would have won the home game and drawn the away) and added 5 onto Man Utd.

Without them we'd have won the league by 10 points that season, we'd have done to United what Mourinho's Chelsea did to them. Which as you rightly point out was within the ability of truly exceptional players like Shearer from the off.

[VinjayV4]

Of course and the absence of Wilcox didn't help either. So much for their Cantona excuse (shame he wasn't banned for life would have caused a riot at certain other grounds in London) and its probably a good thing Liverpool won that day. Though obviously that morning fans would have preferred a straightforward Rovers victory lol.

[47er]

Some good points there about the quality of our squad and how they/we should have been pretty demanding of ourselves that we win it. Kinda chimes with my opinion of how that season went. Frankly I think we absolutely dominated the title race from start to finish and were far better than Man U. The only reason it was 1 point instead of 10 is 2 refereeing decisions that I consider to be beyond atrocious, into the realm of sinister and conspiratorial, to this day. Berg's sending off in the home game when a 3-year old introduced to football the week before could have immediately stated he got the ball. Sherwood's disallowed goal in the away game for a "push" by Shearer that having watched the video 10-20 times still looks like the slightest of brushes/no contact at all.

Doubt it will ever come out but I remain convinced there was something going on in the FA or with Sky or whatever that season that was intent on Rovers not winning the league. There's just no way to explain 2 one-in-a-decade level of diabolical decisions like those 2 happening in coincidentally the 2 games between the title rivals. Those 2 decisions took 4 points off Rovers (we would have won the home game and drawn the away) and added 5 onto Man Utd.

Without them we'd have won the league by 10 points that season, we'd have done to United what Mourinho's Chelsea did to them. Which as you rightly point out was within the ability of truly exceptional players like Shearer from the off.

There was also that penalty decision at Ewood against City at Easter, against Hendry I think. City didn't even appeal and looked as surprised as we all did! Then there was the penalty we didn't get at Leeds, Shearer was clearly fouled when bearing down on goal and he describes this as the most obvious penalty he'd ever seen. They went straight down the other end and equalised in a game in which they had been totally out-classed. Happened a few minutes from the end as well.

Both of these games were in the final run-in to the Premiership.

[Baz]

There was also that penalty decision at Ewood against City at Easter, against Hendry I think. City didn't even appeal and looked as surprised as we all did! Then there was the penalty we didn't get at Leeds, Shearer was clearly fouled when bearing down on goal and he describes this as the most obvious penalty he'd ever seen. They went straight down the other end and equalised in a game in which they had been totally out-classed. Happened a few minutes from the end as well.

Both of these games were in the final run-in to the Premiership.

I think if you reviewed refereeing decisions between Rovers and United over a 20 year period you could count 6 or 7 decisions that affected the outcome of games, and none of them for Rovers. Just as a couple more:

Dunn rounds keeper van Gow(?) at OT - keeper brings down Dunn from tapping into empty net - penalty given but not even a booking. Keeper saves penalty.

MGP clean through is brought down from behind by Rafael - decision- play on.

Craig Short sent off at Ewood for innocuous challenge near halfway line - as he is still walking off the pitch Beckham is actively encouraged by the referee (who only blows his whistle to commence play as the ball is in mid-air) to take the free kick over Friedels head.

[Iceman]

Am i the only one, who dont want them to win it

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Am i the only one, who dont want them to win it

Someone made a good point earlier in the thread that if Leicester win it, the media will effectively erase our achievement from the history books (as they've had a good go at doing anyway).

But that's the only reason I don't want them to win it and there's plenty of reasons why I do.

[oldjamfan1]

Some good points there about the quality of our squad and how they/we should have been pretty demanding of ourselves that we win it. Kinda chimes with my opinion of how that season went. Frankly I think we absolutely dominated the title race from start to finish and were far better than Man U. The only reason it was 1 point instead of 10 is 2 refereeing decisions that I consider to be beyond atrocious, into the realm of sinister and conspiratorial, to this day. Berg's sending off in the home game when a 3-year old introduced to football the week before could have immediately stated he got the ball. Sherwood's disallowed goal in the away game for a "push" by Shearer that having watched the video 10-20 times still looks like the slightest of brushes/no contact at all.

Doubt it will ever come out but I remain convinced there was something going on in the FA or with Sky or whatever that season that was intent on Rovers not winning the league. There's just no way to explain 2 one-in-a-decade level of diabolical decisions like those 2 happening in coincidentally the 2 games between the title rivals. Those 2 decisions took 4 points off Rovers (we would have won the home game and drawn the away) and added 5 onto Man Utd.

Without them we'd have won the league by 10 points that season, we'd have done to United what Mourinho's Chelsea did to them. Which as you rightly point out was within the ability of truly exceptional players like Shearer from the off.

I seem to recall Leeds got an incomprehensible penalty at Ewood as well, did they not? Or was that a different season?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I seem to recall Leeds got an incomprehensible penalty at Ewood as well, did they not? Or was that a different season?

No same season.

The other thing is when considering all these terrible decisions (especially the ones against Man U because they counted for double in effect), we'd have been absolute miles clear come April, there'd have been no pressure and therefore probably no wobble taking 4 points from 4 games at the end. So in effect we could have won it by 15+ points. Just shows how much rubbish it is when anyone says West Ham won us the league. More like we won the league against Man U and the FA.

[oldjamfan1]

No same season.

The other thing is when considering all these terrible decisions (especially the ones against Man U because they counted for double in effect), we'd have been absolute miles clear come April, there'd have been no pressure and therefore probably no wobble taking 4 points from 4 games at the end. So in effect we could have won it by 15+ points. Just shows how much rubbish it is when anyone says West Ham won us the league. More like we won the league against Man U and the FA.

I've never really thought about it in that way before SKH, but you're absolutely right!!

[47er]

Remember Manure's last home game of the 1994-95 season? It was v Southampton and I watched it on tele.

If they'd lost that game we were Champions without needing to get anything from the Anfield game.

Southampton scored first and well into the 2nd half were looking quite comfortable till the ref found a pen from nowhere.

Result---they won 2-1 and i had to bite my nails for a few more days.

Bloody disgusting as was Ferguson putting pressure on the refs with his watch every game.

[VinjayV4]

Remember Manure's last home game of the 1994-95 season? It was v Southampton and I watched it on tele.

If they'd lost that game we were Champions without needing to get anything from the Anfield game.

Southampton scored first and well into the 2nd half were looking quite comfortable till the ref found a pen from nowhere.

Result---they won 2-1 and i had to bite my nails for a few more days.

Bloody disgusting as was Ferguson putting pressure on the refs with his watch every game.

Yeah was just thinking the other day that I've never seen this game mentioned on Rovers forums. Did see a story somewhere though that one player (maybe Flowers) sent his wife out to the off license a bit too early lol. Surprised they didn't blame the draw at West Ham on their midweek game being later than Rovers v Newcastle was.

At least when it came down to the absolute crunch even United couldn't deny they only had themselves (and a certain keeper) to blame that day. Probably should name a suite after Miklosko at Ewood lol.