Financial Unfair Play (Fup)

[JHRover]

Confirmation from Nottingham Forest that they will come out of the FUP embargo this summer.

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Nottingham-Forest-come-embargo-Fawaz-Al-Hasawi/story-29060884-detail/story.html

Forest owner is clueless at running at football club but at least he goes to games, communicates with supporters and now appears to have realised the need for a CEO to 'drive the club forward'.

[VinjayV4]

Can we keep this about FUP and the devastating effect its had on football? Certainly I'm as outspoken about Venkys as anyone but some things go way beyond them.

[K-Hod]

Can we keep this about FUP and the devastating effect its had on football? Certainly I'm as outspoken about Venkys as anyone but some things go way beyond them.

There's nothing wrong with JH's post Vinjay, it was very much on topic. Edited April 6, 2016 by K-Hod

[VinjayV4]

There's nothing wrong with JH's post Vinjay, it was very much on topic.

Well I don't think it was and I'm politely asking for it to be a discussion on the widescale effects of FUP. Would still have created this thread regardless of Rovers having been in an embargo.

[BlueMonday]

Well I don't think it was and I'm politely asking for it to be a discussion on the widescale effects of FUP. Would still have created this thread regardless of Rovers having been in an embargo.

Get over yourself.

Here's an interesting link for FUP

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Use_Project

[VinjayV4]

Can't say I've paid much attention to Panama Papers but where the UEFA FUP parasites are involved...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35981302

[VinjayV4]

Al Hasawi wants the freedom to pursue his ambitions in the city of Robin Hood.

Fawaz Al Hasawi has urged the Football League to relax Financial Unfair Play rules to ensure all Championship clubs can operate on a level playing field with those relegated from the top flight.

The Reds owner believes an unfair advantage is given to clubs coming down from the Premier League, who are armed with parachute payments of £64m over the course of three seasons.

Al Hasawi's issue is not that other Championship clubs receive less TV money – but that they are not allowed to invest the kind of money in their side that would allow them to compete with newly relegated sides, under Financial Unfair Play rules.

I told Football League CEO Shaun Harvey, the embargo has been killing this club. Signing players on loan or who are out of contract, that is really hard, said Al Hasawi.

Edited April 9, 2016 by VinjayV4

[JHRover]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation?CMP=share_btn_tw

Interesting read.

Them and Bournemouth are two modern day 'fairytales' yet it seems both could have cheated to get there.

[VinjayV4]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation?CMP=share_btn_tw

Interesting read.

Them and Bournemouth are two modern day 'fairytales' yet it seems both could have cheated to get there.

UEFA are the cheats.

[JHRover]

Interesting that twice in that statement there is reference to 'all' clubs agreeing to the implementation of the rules. I presume that's reference to a majority of Football League clubs agreeing to the proposals at the AGM. However it is misleading as I'm sure Rovers have never given any form of agreement to the rules, infact the rules were thought up whilst we were in the Premier League and we have had to conform without having any say or vote in the process. I'm sure we aren't alone either. So 'all clubs' haven't agreed. A majority of clubs 4/5 years ago agreed to it, several of whom, like Leicester and Bournemouth, have subsequently won promotion having spent fortunes thanks to the input of wealthy owners rather than their own generated funds.

[VinjayV4]

Interesting that twice in that statement there is reference to 'all' clubs agreeing to the implementation of the rules. I presume that's reference to a majority of Football League clubs agreeing to the proposals at the AGM. However it is misleading as I'm sure Rovers have never given any form of agreement to the rules, infact the rules were thought up whilst we were in the Premier League and we have had to conform without having any say or vote in the process. I'm sure we aren't alone either. So 'all clubs' haven't agreed. A majority of clubs 4/5 years ago agreed to it, several of whom, like Leicester and Bournemouth, have subsequently won promotion having spent fortunes thanks to the input of wealthy owners rather than their own generated funds.

...and if they do that would be the biggest insult to Jack's legacy yet.

Leicester and Bournemouth broke it? Good for them. Hope a lot more do the same.

Edited April 11, 2016 by VinjayV4

[JHRover]

...and if they do that would be the biggest insult to Jack's legacy yet.

Leicester and Bournemouth broke it? Good for them. Hope a lot more do the same.

It's just a little bit galling for me when I see a smaller club than ourselves looking forward to a second Premier League season with untold riches that could change their club beyond recognition having been found guilty of breaking the rules in order to achieve it. We broke the rules and were punished, a punishment that directly caused the sales of top players and led to others (Rhodes) questioning the direction the club was taking, a punishment that directly impacted upon our season ticket and commercial income as sponsors and supporters knew last summer that decline was inevitable whilst under the embargo as we were unable to improve the squad in any meaningful form.

I don't like the rules and don't think they should ever have been allowed to be brought in, I would like to see every club stick two fingers up at the thing and for it to collapse, but it upsets me quite a lot that some clubs have broken the rules yet get away scot free, whilst others, primarily ourselves and Nottingham Forest, have broken them and suffered massively on and off the pitch as a result.

It annoys me that the likes of Newcastle and Villa will not only get huge parachute payments next season, enabling them to operate on a different financial level, but also get a window of adjustment to adapt to the Championship meaning they can basically have 2 seasons to try and get up with no regard for financial issues, whilst we made mistakes in our first season down and had no period after that to get our house in order. We were treated the same as Huddersfield Town despite coming down from the Premier League just 18 months earlier.

[VinjayV4]

It's just a little bit galling for me when I see a smaller club than ourselves looking forward to a second Premier League season with untold riches that could change their club beyond recognition having been found guilty of breaking the rules in order to achieve it. We broke the rules and were punished, a punishment that directly caused the sales of top players and led to others (Rhodes) questioning the direction the club was taking, a punishment that directly impacted upon our season ticket and commercial income as sponsors and supporters knew last summer that decline was inevitable whilst under the embargo as we were unable to improve the squad in any meaningful form.

I don't like the rules and don't think they should ever have been allowed to be brought in, I would like to see every club stick two fingers up at the thing and for it to collapse, but it upsets me quite a lot that some clubs have broken the rules yet get away scot free, whilst others, primarily ourselves and Nottingham Forest, have broken them and suffered massively on and off the pitch as a result.

It annoys me that the likes of Newcastle and Villa will not only get huge parachute payments next season, enabling them to operate on a different financial level, but also get a window of adjustment to adapt to the Championship meaning they can basically have 2 seasons to try and get up with no regard for financial issues, whilst we made mistakes in our first season down and had no period after that to get our house in order. We were treated the same as Huddersfield Town despite coming down from the Premier League just 18 months earlier.

Yeah that's a justified point but I don't blame those clubs and refuse to direct my anger at them. Its UEFA (and the Football League) who have brought in perhaps the worst rule ever to be introduced to football. I thought the video replays...I mean TECHNOLOGY...was bad but its nothing compared to this.

One difference with Bournemouth is Rovers have been a big club from the very beginnings of English Football. Bournemouth are a small club who just came from nowhere whereas Rovers almost got promoted without Jack's funding (unless you count the Riverside materials and Archibald/Ardiles) especially in 1989. Of course nobody outside Rovers remembered that pathetic refereeing decision when they whined about all the spending. It wouldn't be fair though to deprive clubs of doing what Bournemouth have done.

What Venkys have done is the main focus of course but this effects the WHOLE of football. It should get a lot more focus on here considering the embargo and Jack's spectacular intervention. Yeah that might be taken as arrogance and telling people what to do but how could anyone on here not HATE FUP with absolute ferocity?

Even without the embargo I would still be anti-FUP. Infact I might be going to Forest later this month and have chosen that game partly because of the unfair embargo placed on them. I guess its my way of showing some solidarity.

Here's an article on Ipswich (posted online in last 2 hours) who now have an 80 million debt.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/comment_ipswich_town_need_to_show_some_ambition_1_4490404

Edited April 11, 2016 by VinjayV4

[1arC]

Well here is a story that might just suggest that FFP just doesn't work.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation

[JHRover]

Yeah that's a justified point but I don't blame those clubs and refuse to direct my anger at them. Its UEFA (and the Football League) who have brought in perhaps the worst rule ever to be introduced to football. I thought the video replays...I mean TECHNOLOGY...was bad but its nothing compared to this.

One difference with Bournemouth is Rovers have been a big club from the very beginnings of English Football. Bournemouth are a small club who just came from nowhere whereas Rovers almost got promoted without Jack's funding (unless you count the Riverside materials and Archibald/Ardiles) especially in 1989. Of course nobody outside Rovers remembered that pathetic refereeing decision when they whined about all the spending. It wouldn't be fair though to deprive clubs of doing what Bournemouth have done.

What Venkys have done is the main focus of course but this effects the WHOLE of football. It should get a lot more focus on here considering the embargo and Jack's spectacular intervention. Yeah that might be taken as arrogance and telling people what to do but how could anyone on here not HATE FUP with absolute ferocity?

Even without the embargo I would still be anti-FUP. Infact I might be going to Forest later this month and have chosen that game partly because of the unfair embargo placed on them. I guess its my way of showing some solidarity.

Here's an article on Ipswich (posted online in last 2 hours) who now have an 80 million debt.

http://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/comment_ipswich_town_need_to_show_some_ambition_1_4490404

That's a very good article that you've found. It goes to show that the issues facing Rovers are similar to those facing most other clubs in this league which don't get parachute money. We are not unique or alone. Ever increasing debts, multi-million pound annual losses. Most people would have Ipswich down as a well run club compared to Rovers, yet they are heavily in debt and lose millions a year, often relying on the sale of better players to plug the gap. Both clubs reliant on hand outs or continued support of wealthy owners who don't communicate with supporters.

[VinjayV4]

In the case of Evans he just hates publicity. Apparently nobody could even find a photo of him for ages!

[had.e.nuff]

Well here is a story that might just suggest that FFP just doesn't work.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/11/leicester-city-finances-football-league-financial-fair-play-investigation

What are the league going to do fine them like QPR

[DE.]

In the case of Evans he just hates publicity. Apparently nobody could even find a photo of him for ages!

Yeah, he's a real recluse. Most Ipswich fans aren't really concerned about the debt though. As far as I can tell they trust Evans in that respect, though practically every Ipswich fan I've spoken to is disappointed that McCarthy signed a new contract and hoping he gets poached by one of the bigger clubs when they come down! I appreciate the football is truly horrific at Ipswich (worse than we were under GB, imo) but unless Evans gives Mick some money to spend he hasn't got much choice but to grind out results. It's tough on all concerned really, especially as season tickets have risen again this season...

[tomphil]

Someone like Evans will always get a bit of leeway with their fans because I think they were struggling financially when he took over, or so I'm told. He stopped the rot then invested what bit he had but got burned by Roy Kean so now he just props them up.

Trouble is Rovers will always be a poisoned chalice under the V's unless they really do try and restore what they wrecked. That's because of the ridiculous, arrogant, ignorant, under hand and some of us would say bent way they wrecked it. It's never been a slow slide to our natural level at all and anyone who likes to portray that needs a slap !

Sadly we are stuck with it now and yes we have to live like other Champ clubs and it's a pill we'll have to swallow and get on with it. Never let it be said there is anything natural about the way it came about though like might be the case at many other clubs of a similar size in this div.

Edited April 12, 2016 by tomphil

[had.e.nuff]

What i dont get is ffp is almost impossible to police so why not just have a wage cap for the leagues below the prem, players are not just going to walk away as there would be nowhere to go .Might make them try harder to get to the promised land of the prem and work hard to stay there as wages would drop .would take a few years to impliment as current cotracts could not be changed and a relegation clause would be automatic so finacial planning for clubs would be easier as you would know your wage bill for the season.

[JHRover]

What i dont get is ffp is almost impossible to police so why not just have a wage cap for the leagues below the prem, players are not just going to walk away as there would be nowhere to go .Might make them try harder to get to the promised land of the prem and work hard to stay there as wages would drop .would take a few years to impliment as current cotracts could not be changed and a relegation clause would be automatic so finacial planning for clubs would be easier as you would know your wage bill for the season.

The reason that would never be introduced is because it would eliminate the loopholes and prevent the likes of Middlesbrough and Derby from cheating. The current system is far more preferable, as it provides the League with the opportunity to sanction clubs at their discretion using some bizarre and convoluted process that 99% of people in football still don't understand. Confusion, speculation and questions rule the day, which is just how the people running it want it to be. They can pick and chose which clubs to punish as they want, with no strict policing or rule book to adhere to. Many supporters won't question it as they don't fully understand how it works so they keep quiet and assume it is all above board. I myself have read over the rules numerous times and still don't understand them myself. This way the most guilty parties in recent years, such as Middlesbrough and QPR, have been able to spend obscene amounts of money, handed down from their owners, and to date have faced no sanction other than a mysterious fine for QPR which is very suspect and for which there is extremely limited information in the public domain. Its now almost 2 years since Leicester were promoted and yet the investigation continues into their dealings with a suspect marketing company from Sheffield. How can it take so long to investigate? Anyone would think they are just ignoring it and hoping it goes away. In the end even if they find Leicester guilty the worst punishment they will get is a nominal fine, which their billionaire owner will be able to pay with the proceeds of their Champions League windfall. What does that achieve and where does the money go?

The League would no doubt use the excuse that a wage cap would be either illegal or would cause massive damage to the quality of players on offer in the Championship.

The whole thing is a complete sham. Take Cardiff City as an example. On 15th January 2016 the League suddenly announced that they had decided to put Cardiff under a transfer embargo for breaking the rules. Why this wasn't done in December ahead of the window opening nobody knows. I thought the whole point was that accounts were submitted in November for analysis so that a decision could be made in advance of the window. Cardiff then signed Kenneth Zohore from some Belgian club that coincidentally is owned by the same man who owns Cardiff. Yes presumably the League is satisfied that is all above board.

[VinjayV4]

What i dont get is FUP is almost impossible to police so why not just have a wage cap for the leagues below the prem, players are not just going to walk away as there would be nowhere to go .Might make them try harder to get to the promised land of the prem and work hard to stay there as wages would drop .would take a few years to impliment as current cotracts could not be changed and a relegation clause would be automatic so finacial planning for clubs would be easier as you would know your wage bill for the season.

I've had.e.nuff of people calling it by that disgusting name. Name one reason to keep referring to it as that? Its like calling Kean a great manager (and look what the mods did with his name) that's how ludicrous it is. Perhaps the media call it by the other initials to avoid legal action but that isn't the case on here.

Am I telling people what to do? Yeah as its something I feel so strongly about morally AND of course because of Jack Walker. Its evil. Counter argument? There isn't one.

FUP!

Pellegrini happy for City fans to boo the UEFA CL anthem.

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/pellegrini-happy-for-man-city-fans-to-continue-jeers-4125162

City fans have a tendency to complain about the media too much (in their position why get so angry over what some third rate pundit thinks?) but their hatred of UEFA is 100% right. When UEFA threatened action over the booing it has to be one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. I would boo the hell out of it too.

I hope City win the CL for numerous reasons. Especially to really @#/? UEFA off

Edited April 12, 2016 by VinjayV4

[davulsukur]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/11/newcastle-would-have-to-pay-jonjo-shelvey-80000-a-week-in-the-ch/

The Geordies face to prospect of paying players like Shelvey huge wages should they be relegated as they didn't put any relegation clauses in the contracts.

Not sure what the parachute payments are these days but if they screw up promotion at the first time of asking, FFP would surely come along and bite them.

That article also states Scott Parker was on £75k (*Edit - Cheers DE) per week at Fulham last season, no surprise to see them get hit with a FFP ban with players earning that much.

Edited April 12, 2016 by davulsukur

[JHRover]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/11/newcastle-would-have-to-pay-jonjo-shelvey-80000-a-week-in-the-ch/

The Geordies face to prospect of paying players like Shelvey huge wages should they be relegated as they didn't put any relegation clauses in the contracts.

Not sure what the parachute payments are these days but if they screw up promotion at the first time of asking, FFP would surely come along and bite them.

That article also states Scott Parker was on £75 per week at Fulham last season, no surprise to see them get hit with a FFP ban with players earning that much.

One of the reasons it could work to our advantage with the likes of Villa and Newcastle coming down - they will have to adjust massively. They aren't prepared for the Championship, whilst Norwich/Watford etc. are.

[DE.]

That article also states Scott Parker was on £75 per week at Fulham last season, no surprise to see them get hit with a FFP ban with players earning that much.

He'll be playing until he drops dead on that wage!