[Archived] West Ham United - Fa Cup 5Th Round

[perthblue02]

Think you are right about Coventry it was 2-5 (we scored first in that match as well)

Coventry also did us in the cup in 2008 at home 1-4

[Iceman]

Chance at the quarter finals, and we pick a sub standard team. Granted Graham and Grimes were cup tied, to pick Taylor and again Akpan, was madness. I know West Ham are a good team, but they had so many key players missing, so the chance was there. I've never rated Steele, and believe a new keeper should be on the priority list along with a left back.

[all you need is duff]

The most bizarre thing Lambert did yesterday was the substitution immediately after Taylor got sent off. We went from a 5 man midfield to a 3 man midfield and never recovered

[Stuart]

Not getting involved in any Rhodes bashing and not solely aimed at you Rev but if anyone could kindly point out where and how Rhodes in the team today would have helped us, or prevented us from getting battered, I'll be happy to hear it.

Den has a point. With Jordan in the team today we would have been under even more severe pressure than we were, because their back four would have had more time.

QED, Rev, QED.

[ABBEY]

May I personally thank Taylor , lambert & Venkyscum for the flak and abuse that's is happening this morning . I hope you are all proud .

[Lancaster Rover]

Only just got round to posting but here are my thoughts.

Lambert was damned if he did damned if he didn't yesterday. If he picked a full strength side and we pick up injuries or suspensions he gets slated, picks an experimental side and we get humped he gets slated. In a sense I'm happy he went for number 2, yesterday was dissapointing however I'd much rather getting thumped in a cup tie than say Gomez getting injured or Hanley sent off.

With that said I was disappointed overall with the showings of certain players. I will start with the positives, as much as many of you seem to be be reaching for the cyanide after the 18th best club in the championship getting beaten by the 5th best club in the premier league, I think a bit of balance needs to be found.

We started really brightly again with Bennett finding gaps in the channels again, Marshall continued his rich vein of form at right back and took his goal exceptionally well, Lenihan tackled well, got a good shot off early doors and worked tirelessly. For 30 of the first 45 we were really in the game and at times on top, West Ham had a strong 15 minutes when they scored which you would expect from a team of their position, their first goal again came from an avoidable individual error and the second whilst a fantastic free kick came from a stupid foul. We started the second half brightly and the sending off was warranted it did change the game for us completely.

The negatives however are in abundance, these are more personnel failings than anything in my opinion.

Ward, I was impressed in his first couple of games however against Hull he made a poor error for their goal but i was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, until yesterday! His defending for their goal was appalling, backed off 15 yards and then turned his back, he was really poor possession too, overall a very poor display.

Henley, his total lack of understanding when it comes to taking up the correct position for a full back is terrifying, he was caught ball watching and/or just completely out of position about 7 times, watching him leave his man and wander over the almost centre back without even a cursory glance to look who was coming in off the wing. He also committed my pet peeve on several occasions, flying into tackles on his backside needlessly and putting himself out of the game. He looked like he was sulking for most the second half and like he had given up in the last 10.

Akpan, again I've supported Akpan in the past but his total lack of ability with the ball at this feet was there for all to see yesterday. Struggled on several occasions to get the ball out of his feet and misplaced several 4 yard passes. Was totally out of position for their first gaol too, caught in absolute no mans land.

Steele, doesn't really need labouring this point but his error for the first goal was dreadful, the more I watch the second the more I think he should have got to that too.

Taylor, no words needed really. Poor with the ball, poor without it. Stupid bookings.

What disappointed most overall yesterday were how the players reacted for the last 20 or so minutes, we made so many schoolboy errors it was laughable. Players diving in and going to ground willy nilly, shape retention was appalling, West Ham moved the ball well but certain players went chasing the ball and not tracking like they were in an under 8's game. These are professional footballers who really should know better, watching our players skidding across the penalty area like children was embarrassing.

An overall disappointing afternoon after such a bright start but I'm not reading too much into it, we have to focus on the league and preserving players for our heavily congested fixture list is paramount IMO. Yesterday afternoon served as further proof that certain players just aren't good enough.

Onwards to Tuesday night. Back to a full strength side and much better display.

[K-Hod]

May I personally thank Taylor , lambert & Venkyscum for the flak and abuse that's is happening this morning . I hope you are all proud .

I'm afraid that's life. We've been able to give it out plentifully to opposing fans in years gone by, it only stands to reason that when it goes the other way we'll be on the receiving end.

[gumboots]

Only just got round to posting but here are my thoughts.

Lambert was damned if he did damned if he didn't yesterday. If he picked a full strength side and we pick up injuries or suspensions he gets slated, picks an experimental side and we get humped he gets slated. In a sense I'm happy he went for number 2, yesterday was dissapointing however I'd much rather getting thumped in a cup tie than say Gomez getting injured or Hanley sent off.

With that said I was disappointed overall with the showings of certain players. I will start with the positives, as much as many of you seem to be be reaching for the cyanide after the 18th best club in the championship getting beaten by the 5th best club in the premier league, I think a bit of balance needs to be found.

We started really brightly again with Bennett finding gaps in the channels again, Marshall continued his rich vein of form at right back and took his goal exceptionally well, Lenihan tackled well, got a good shot off early doors and worked tirelessly. For 30 of the first 45 we were really in the game and at times on top, West Ham had a strong 15 minutes when they scored which you would expect from a team of their position, their first goal again came from an avoidable individual error and the second whilst a fantastic free kick came from a stupid foul. We started the second half brightly and the sending off was warranted it did change the game for us completely.

The negatives however are in abundance, these are more personnel failings than anything in my opinion.

Ward, I was impressed in his first couple of games however against Hull he made a poor error for their goal but i was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, until yesterday! His defending for their goal was appalling, backed off 15 yards and then turned his back, he was really poor possession too, overall a very poor display.

Henley, his total lack of understanding when it comes to taking up the correct position for a full back is terrifying, he was caught ball watching and/or just completely out of position about 7 times, watching him leave his man and wander over the almost centre back without even a cursory glance to look who was coming in off the wing. He also committed my pet peeve on several occasions, flying into tackles on his backside needlessly and putting himself out of the game. He looked like he was sulking for most the second half and like he had given up in the last 10.

Akpan, again I've supported Akpan in the past but his total lack of ability with the ball at this feet was there for all to see yesterday. Struggled on several occasions to get the ball out of his feet and misplaced several 4 yard passes. Was totally out of position for their first gaol too, caught in absolute no mans land.

Steele, doesn't really need labouring this point but his error for the first goal was dreadful, the more I watch the second the more I think he should have got to that too.

Taylor, no words needed really. Poor with the ball, poor without it. Stupid bookings.

What disappointed most overall yesterday were how the players reacted for the last 20 or so minutes, we made so many schoolboy errors it was laughable. Players diving in and going to ground willy nilly, shape retention was appalling, West Ham moved the ball well but certain players went chasing the ball and not tracking like they were in an under 8's game. These are professional footballers who really should know better, watching our players skidding across the penalty area like children was embarrassing.

An overall disappointing afternoon after such a bright start but I'm not reading too much into it, we have to focus on the league and preserving players for our heavily congested fixture list is paramount IMO. Yesterday afternoon served as further proof that certain players just aren't good enough.

Onwards to Tuesday night. Back to a full strength side and much better display.

Thank you. Thats a more balanced summary and chimes in with my feelings much more than most of the rest of this thread. I could see why Lambert wanted to make a few changes. It wasn't the wholesale team changes that you might be led to believe by some of the reaction on here. We have games coming thick and fast over the next few weeks and he needs to be able to put out a team that stands a chance in them. A trip to Wembley might have been nice but realistically we were unlikely to get there, even for the semis. It's never nice to get beaten by such a big score or to be shown graphically just how far your team and your whole club have fallen, but some of the hyberbole on here is ridiculous.

On a side note,little lad behind me asked his grandad about a minute into the second half, "when is it going to start again?" Grandad said,"it has started. Look, they're running with the ball."

"No," said little lad. "I mean when is it going to start in your tummy again, where it goes all funny" Think we all wish we knew the answer to that one!

[ABBEY]

I'm afraid that's life. We've been able to give it out plentifully to opposing fans in years gone by, it only stands to reason that when it goes the other way we'll be on the receiving end.

I know but when someone does a brain dead sending off and apperently he was on social media drunk on Friday night ( saw a pic on someone's phone no idea if true or not ) the it's time to get angry.

Drink or not he should never wear blue n white again. And as for lambert not playing strongest team, just like bowyer it's pathetic. If we pick up injuries then so be it , it happens .

[JHRover]

To have had a chance of progressing we needed three things to happen. We needed all our players to put in fantastic 90 minute performances, we needed some of the West Ham players to have off days, and we needed some good fortune on top of that. They are top 6 Premier League for a reason and we are bottom 6 Championship for a reason.

Unfortunately we didn't get any of the above. Three or four of our players were poor, and I will identify Steele, Akpan and Henley as the three prime candidates whilst the rest offered nothing spectacular (other than Ben Marshall whose excellent recent form continued). West Ham performed well in the second half with their full strength eleven and having had a man advantage for 40 minutes made us pay. Add to that the suicidal sending off of Chris Taylor just at the point where we had started the second half well and were pushing for an equaliser and that shifted the whole direction of the game in one split second.

I'm not really sure as to the reasons for the mass complaints about the team selection. Other than Gomez and Hanley who was missing that could really be described as one of our top players? The rest of the team have all featured in the league recently. Corry Evans has been regularly lambasted on here for his performances in the last 18 months so I don't see how he can suddenly have become our 'star man' who is indispensable. Watt made way because Lambert decided on a five man midfield with a big lad up front on his own and for the first 30-40 minutes it was working, although Brown will never score.

I might be in a minority but I'm not too disheartened. I felt up until the sending off we were well in the game and it could have been a very different story at half time had someone decided to make a tackle in the lead up to their first goal or if Steele had saved one of them, which he should have done. Playing for 40 minutes with 10 men against a quality side is always going to be very difficult, although the state of our defending in the last 15 minutes was worrying.

[onlyonetugay]

The FA Cup is dying by a thousand cuts . This weekend was all the evidence we needed. Hull City ( yes Hull City ) playing a reserve eleven against the mighty Arsenal ,sorry the mighty Arsenal second string. Then you have Manchester City , playing what looked like a youth team against Chelsea and losing 5 - 1 . I haven't bothered looking at any of the other ties, with the obvious exception of the Rovers , but I'm sure a similar pattern emerged in those games as well. You have to have a special love of your team to turn up and pay good money to watch these reserve games

In defense of Paul Lambert ,as Gumboots says , the Rovers have big games and lots of them , coming thick and fast . He was never going to prioritize the Cup . I'm a season ticket holder but tend to give, what I call the Fanny Adams Cup, a wide berth these days. I watched the cricket instead ( that's another story !) , just turning over every now and again to see how the Rovers were getting along. That's a shame because I was brought up to believe in the romance of the Cup and when I was young ,Cup games tended to attract bigger crowds than league games. We've also won it 3 times in a row , the only club still in existence to hold that proud record. I just hope the mighty Arsenal reserves don't win it this year and trump that achievement.

I'm afraid the demise of the F.A.Cup is another consequence of Sky and it's ruination of English football. Yes I know I was watching Sky, but if you love cricket it's the only channel that shows it !

[jim mk2]

I'm afraid the demise of the F.A.Cup is another consequence of Sky and it's ruination of English football.

Sky and the cursed Champions League - which has ruined football the world over.

The thought occurs that yesterday's match might be a rerun of 1969 all over again.

Back then we had also been relegated a few years before and drew Man City in the Cup. City were a top side then and the match at Ewood was eagerly anticipated after being called off a few times.

Anyway, Rovers got thumped 4-1, City went on to win the Cup and we went into further decline in the ensuing years leading to our relegation to the old third division.

Is that too gloom laden ? Possibly, but if we don't sign a whole bunch of vastly better players in the summer we'll be in another relegation battle next season with or without Lambert. We're a very poor side.

[barry_]

it's the hope that kills.

[onlyonetugay]

Sky and the cursed Champions League - which has ruined football the world over.

The thought occurs that yesterday's match might be a rerun of 1969 all over again.

Back then we had also been relegated a few years before and drew Man City in the Cup. City were a top side then and the match at Ewood was eagerly anticipated after being called off a few times.

Anyway, Rovers got thumped 4-1, City went on to win the Cup and we went into further decline in the ensuing years leading to our relegation to the old third division.

Is that too gloom laden ? Possibly, but if we don't sign a whole bunch of vastly better players in the summer we'll be in another relegation battle next season with or without Lambert. We're a very poor side.

Can't disagree with any of that ( unusual ! ) I went to the Rovers v Man City game ( 42,000 attendance) and from memory Jim Fryatt was the only player to score against City in the Cup that year. If that game had taken place this weekend , Jim probably would have been rested , along with Bell , Lee and Summerbee !

[jim mk2]

I don't understand this "resting" of players. When I was a player, I'd play every day of the week if I could. OK there's a chance of injuries but in my playing days I got more serious injuries on the training field than I ever did during matches. Most of all, not playing the 1st XI in every match is an insult to fans.

[JHRover]

The FA Cup is dying by a thousand cuts . This weekend was all the evidence we needed. Hull City ( yes Hull City ) playing a reserve eleven against the mighty Arsenal ,sorry the mighty Arsenal second string. Then you have Manchester City , playing what looked like a youth team against Chelsea and losing 5 - 1 . I haven't bothered looking at any of the other ties, with the obvious exception of the Rovers , but I'm sure a similar pattern emerged in those games as well. You have to have a special love of your team to turn up and pay good money to watch these reserve games

In defense of Paul Lambert ,as Gumboots says , the Rovers have big games and lots of them , coming thick and fast . He was never going to prioritize the Cup . I'm a season ticket holder but tend to give, what I call the Fanny Adams Cup, a wide berth these days. I watched the cricket instead ( that's another story !) , just turning over every now and again to see how the Rovers were getting along. That's a shame because I was brought up to believe in the romance of the Cup and when I was young ,Cup games tended to attract bigger crowds than league games. We've also won it 3 times in a row , the only club still in existence to hold that proud record. I just hope the mighty Arsenal reserves don't win it this year and trump that achievement.

I'm afraid the demise of the F.A.Cup is another consequence of Sky and it's ruination of English football. Yes I know I was watching Sky, but if you love cricket it's the only channel that shows it !

The fixture setters are to blame for this though. Every time there is a round of FA Cup fixtures the following midweek either has Premier League games or European games, meaning the top clubs always have one eye on getting ready for that.

I actually respect Pellegrini's decision to have the balls to turn up at Chelsea with the kids. At the end of the day he's tasked by his employers with being successful in the Premier League and Champions League first and the FA Cup is a back up competition. That's not his fault. The authorities in English football have allowed the situation to develop where City have to go away to Kiev midweek before returning at the weekend to compete in the League Cup final. Something has got to give there, it would be potentially self-destructive if City had turned up yesterday with their strongest team ahead of two other huge games in the next 6-7 days.

If the FA don't like it they could always put the Cup on a weekend when there are no European/midweek League games after it.

Steve Bruce isn't being paid to reach the FA Cup quarter/semi finals. He's being paid to get promoted and they've a very good chance of doing that. Why risk that? I'm sure if they didn't have a tough away game against Ipswich then they might look at the Cup more seriously, but getting beat at Ipswich could be far more damaging than getting beat at Arsenal.

In the end its time the blame was shifted away from clubs/managers and towards the real people responsible, which are the media, Premier League and the FA. They have the power between them to change things yet plod on every year with the same old system.

They are so misguided that they think abolishing replays is the solution to improving the cup, when all that will do is benefit the top clubs even more at the expense of the smaller clubs, many of whom dream for replays.

The FA are an inept organisation who could not care less about the damage to the tournament as long as Emirates keep signing the cheques to sponsor it and Wembley is full every season. They have the power to change things but won't do.

Provision 15 (a) of the FA Cup rules reads: "each team participating in a match shall represent the full available strength of each competing club" - another rule that is conveniently ignored/overlooked which if enforced properly by the governing body would make a huge difference.

[Mafioso]

Other members on here mentioned the substitution immediately after the sending off. And I agree. I think the substitution itself was just as damaging than the sending off.

Being an overseas fan I dont get to watch as many games as I would like to, so with this game being on TV had a couple of mates over etc (Luckily they're Man Utd fans so they were in no position to ridicule the score). The commentator mentioned Conway being the player to be replaced by Simeon Jackson, not the world's greatest substitution by any means but to be fair on Lambert, Conway WAS absent for most of the game. However the second Taylor gets sent off I turn to my mate and tell him the Conway must be grateful as this would SURELY mean he stays on... yet somehow he is still taken off.

So we go from having 3 wingers in a 5 man midfield to 1 winger in a 3 man centralised midfield...

Despite his form at the moment with the game being a cup game I think we should have looked at Marshall being given a more advanced role. In reality, with the limitations and lack of above average ability aside, with a Marshall and Henley at RB and LB respectively, and Bennett behind Brown you've got 3 players not really playing in their natural positions. Going for Henly at RB, Marshall at ACM, Bennett at RM instead of Taylor would have been a better option. At LB (it is a cup tie) maybe let one of the younger players a go, or possibly even Killa at the back. I know pace wise he is likely to be raped by the athletic force that is the West Ham team at the moment. However in reality it was sleek passing football that they were playing so maybe a more experienced level head may have been a more suitable option than an out of position quick LB who isnt given a chance to go on a run anyway.

Brown did give it a good go but I'm glad Danny Graham is back next game. You don't win games for your team by just hassling defenders with no end result.

How Steele can save some of the thunderbolts that were let loose from near point blank range yet a soft Moses shot (which he shouldnt have been given space to shoot) goes in is beyond me.

I dont want this to sound like another rant at the team. But understandably am disappointed. You get these sort of defeats every so often, hopefully its a while until we see this sort of performance again and that the feedback from this game is taken on board for further games rather than an 'oh well they're a premiership team anyway, we were never going to win' attitude.

[rigger]

Can't disagree with any of that ( unusual ! ) I went to the Rovers v Man City game ( 42,000 attendance) and from memory Jim Fryatt was the only player to score against City in the Cup that year. If that game had taken place this weekend , Jim probably would have been rested , along with Bell , Lee and Summerbee !

That was my first ever game, even though we got humped I was hooked.

[gumboots]

The fixture setters are to blame for this though. Every time there is a round of FA Cup fixtures the following midweek either has Premier League games or European games, meaning the top clubs always have one eye on getting ready for that.

I actually respect Pellegrini's decision to have the balls to turn up at Chelsea with the kids. At the end of the day he's tasked by his employers with being successful in the Premier League and Champions League first and the FA Cup is a back up competition. That's not his fault. The authorities in English football have allowed the situation to develop where City have to go away to Kiev midweek before returning at the weekend to compete in the League Cup final. Something has got to give there, it would be potentially self-destructive if City had turned up yesterday with their strongest team ahead of two other huge games in the next 6-7 days.

If the FA don't like it they could always put the Cup on a weekend when there are no European/midweek League games after it.

Steve Bruce isn't being paid to reach the FA Cup quarter/semi finals. He's being paid to get promoted and they've a very good chance of doing that. Why risk that? I'm sure if they didn't have a tough away game against Ipswich then they might look at the Cup more seriously, but getting beat at Ipswich could be far more damaging than getting beat at Arsenal.

In the end its time the blame was shifted away from clubs/managers and towards the real people responsible, which are the media, Premier League and the FA. They have the power between them to change things yet plod on every year with the same old system.

They are so misguided that they think abolishing replays is the solution to improving the cup, when all that will do is benefit the top clubs even more at the expense of the smaller clubs, many of whom dream for replays.

The FA are an inept organisation who could not care less about the damage to the tournament as long as Emirates keep signing the cheques to sponsor it and Wembley is full every season. They have the power to change things but won't do.

Provision 15 (a) of the FA Cup rules reads: "each team participating in a match shall represent the full available strength of each competing club" - another rule that is conveniently ignored/overlooked which if enforced properly by the governing body would make a huge difference.

the issue is also uefa who do not allow domestic games that will be televised to go up against their mighty champions league and uefa cup games. It means that the fa cup replay for hull/arsenal is very hard to schedule because champions league has started. Also the extension of the various stages of the bore fest that is most of the champions league means more dates are wiped out. It's not just the premier league and the FA that are to blame. It's the prioritising of European stuff over domestic competitions that causes the problem.

[Parsonblue]

I don't understand this "resting" of players. When I was a player, I'd play every day of the week if I could. OK there's a chance of injuries but in my playing days I got more serious injuries on the training field than I ever did during matches. Most of all, not playing the 1st XI in every match is an insult to fans.

Couldn't agree more Jim. When did Dougie or Clayton need to be rested? - and they were playing at a time when pitches were mud heaps and refs gave them no protection at all. What baffles me about yesterday is resting players for the game against Derby. I would have thought next weeks clash with MK Dons is far more important and if Lambert wanted to rest his players then why not put out the strongest team yesterday and then give them a week's rest before the MK Dons game. It's all very well the manager saying that he wanted a packed Ewood Park for yesterday's game but when he then sends out a weakened team and bleats about how he'd prefer to lose than have a replay is it any wonder that the fans stay away.

[onlyonetugay]

That was my first ever game, even though we got humped I was hooked.

It was the most memorable game I've seen at Ewood . Played under floodlights , massive crowd with City , dazzling in their black and red stripes, all skill , speed and power. When Jim Fryatt equalized I bet you could hear the noise on the Boulevard !

http://www.citytilidie.com/latest/blackburn-away-fa-cup-5th-round-196869/

[tomphil]

I was just going to mention the attendance thing v team selection. Think we saw first hand yesterday why people who go every week are reluctant to turn up for games like that. A big hoo ha was made about West Hams turnout but they obviously saw it as a gimme and seem to think they've already won the cup. I hope the arrogant fools mess it up now and if they hadn't brought a once in a lifetime load of day trippers up here and only brought their usual couple of thousand I don't think anyone would have questioned the home support.

I don't think even City sold all that was available to them at Chelsea which kind of shows what they were expecting.

[onlyonetugay]

The fixture setters are to blame for this though. Every time there is a round of FA Cup fixtures the following midweek either has Premier League games or European games, meaning the top clubs always have one eye on getting ready for that.

I actually respect Pellegrini's decision to have the balls to turn up at Chelsea with the kids. At the end of the day he's tasked by his employers with being successful in the Premier League and Champions League first and the FA Cup is a back up competition. That's not his fault. The authorities in English football have allowed the situation to develop where City have to go away to Kiev midweek before returning at the weekend to compete in the League Cup final. Something has got to give there, it would be potentially self-destructive if City had turned up yesterday with their strongest team ahead of two other huge games in the next 6-7 days.

If the FA don't like it they could always put the Cup on a weekend when there are no European/midweek League games after it.

Steve Bruce isn't being paid to reach the FA Cup quarter/semi finals. He's being paid to get promoted and they've a very good chance of doing that. Why risk that? I'm sure if they didn't have a tough away game against Ipswich then they might look at the Cup more seriously, but getting beat at Ipswich could be far more damaging than getting beat at Arsenal.

In the end its time the blame was shifted away from clubs/managers and towards the real people responsible, which are the media, Premier League and the FA. They have the power between them to change things yet plod on every year with the same old system.

They are so misguided that they think abolishing replays is the solution to improving the cup, when all that will do is benefit the top clubs even more at the expense of the smaller clubs, many of whom dream for replays.

The FA are an inept organisation who could not care less about the damage to the tournament as long as Emirates keep signing the cheques to sponsor it and Wembley is full every season. They have the power to change things but won't do.

Provision 15 (a) of the FA Cup rules reads: "each team participating in a match shall represent the full available strength of each competing club" - another rule that is conveniently ignored/overlooked which if enforced properly by the governing body would make a huge difference.

I don't blame Wenger , Pelligrini , Bruce , Lambert or Uncle Tom Cobley . They and their clubs have priorities. I just won't pay good money to see sham games masquerading as FA Cup ties

[Mattyblue]

Seems fairly simple to me, we were beaten by a far better side. The days of us being a superior side to the likes of West Ham have gone, perhaps for good.

However, we did compete to an extent until the Taylor sending off. The fact that the majority of the crowd gave him a standing ovation says it all about the knowledge of football crowds.

All I'm trying to do for the rest of this season is to try and see some green shoots, to try and spot an emerging style of play and system- I believe we are slowly seeing that, however it all comes down to one thing- PLAYERS, PLAYERS, PLAYERS.

Give Lambert the tools and I believe he can slowly turn around the listing tanker that is BRFC, however another summer of selling your best assets and bringing in loans and freebies and we all know where we will be heading.

[Al]

Grasping at straws? Providing facts on possibly why he choose the team he did.

Didn't see any facts in your post. Just speculation that there might have been some injuries. Unlikely as they were in the main on the bench. As I said you were grasping at straws.