[Archived] Your Children - To Indoctrinate Or Not?

[Paul]

One of the reasons I put to my lads when they came home with "why can't we support United?" - they all do at some point - was you should first support your local team and second would you rather watch Rovers or not be able to get a ticket at Old Trafford? (This was 25 years ago).

I think you should raise him as a Rover but if he one day choses to support his local team don't stand in his way.

Reminds me of one great moment in our house. Sat at the tea table the youngest (5) announces "I want to support United." Eldest (10) says "Not if you want to live in this house." Cue very small child runs howling up to his room - took ages to get him down again.

The other thing to consider us be sure he likes football! I took all three to Ewood for 8 seasons till aged 13 the youngest asked if he could stop going? Why? Turns out he isn't interested in football and I had to start taking him to OT for the cricket!!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Going off topic slightly but its interesting how everyone's different experiences that got them hooked as kids were all positive/fun ones. I was the same, my dad was a big singer and I developed the attitude pretty much straight away that fans play a vital role in helping the team. Still very much believe in the 12th man effect.

Which personally is why I find so depressing and irritating the (it seems) increasingly common behaviour of fans of basically plonking themselves down, waiting to be entertained, and delivering a critical running commentary on what the players/manager should be doing. And that's the restrained critics, from many others now its periodic angry shouts/groans. I remember not that long ago (90s/00s), the Blackburn End would sing for at least the first 20 minutes of every game before letting anything like an insipid performance dampen their spirits.

That's what Rovers should be about and that's the only reason anyone ever gets into it, having fun. Not venting frustrations and expressing dissatisfaction whenever things aren't going swimmingly on the pitch. The grouchy, occasionally furious, general "go on then, do something good" approach of so many fans at home games these days does nothing for the team and certainly isn't an environment that appeals to youngsters.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

It is your duty as a father to bring him up properly and to support the team of his heritage.

My eldest is indifferent to football, despite my efforts, but my younger son has been a ST holder since he was old enough to go.

Yes, in is good to indoctrinate! We will rise again one day......

[bluebruce]

My son's goal in life is to wind me up. He's 7 and tells me how bad Rovers are whenever he can.

Rovers not being in the Premier League is massive. They are never on TV in the US (they are on Sunday though) so he has no idea who they are.

I won't force him to support Rovers. He may change his mind when he gets older.

You need to get a handle on that mate. Carrot and stick him. Talking about how Rovers are bad results in toys being taken away. Praising them results in toys. Something like that.

If I have kids, supporting anybody other than Rovers will be an absolute non-starter. They will be risking getting disowned. They will be allowed to not follow football if they want, but if they ever claim any team other than Rovers, there will be dire, dire consequences.

There are some things you shouldn't ever force on kids, like your religious beliefs (or your atheism). Following Rovers is not one of them.

[onlyonetugay]

When he's old enough borrow a Leicester shirt ( make sure it's not a Chelsea , Everton , Cardiff , etc etc) and put it side by side with one of those world famous blue and white halved shirts . Tell him to choose one - job done !!

[Oldgregg86]

I'm currently in the process of indoctrinating my daughter who is two next week. She sings rovers songs and chants instead of nursery rhymes and when family and friends come waving there united and Liverpool badges at her she won't touch them and tells them to go away. My dad is a Liverpool fan who never really spent any time watching or teaching me about football so when I started going to the rovers with a friend and his family at the age of ten I always vowed one day it would be a family outing as I was extremely envious of all the lads singing and cheering with their mum dad's sisters and brothers. The wife is converted and my daughter won't know any better and soon as she has the attention span to sit and watch for 90 minutes there will be two more season tickets added to the ever dwindling attendances. It's hard trying to explain to the wife about the great rovers teams when I took her to the Rotherham game on a cold damp midweek night with three quarters of the ground empty. Hopefully by the time my daughter is old enough we're back were we belong. COYB

[bluebruce]

When he's old enough borrow a Leicester shirt ( make sure it's not a Chelsea , Everton , Cardiff , etc etc) and put it side by side with one of those world famous blue and white halved shirts . Tell him to choose one - job done !!

I'd be putting our home kit next to our away kit and saying choose...

[Giant]

Indoctrination is the root of all evil, except when it involves forcing your kids to become Rovers fans.

[Tom]

My son Arlo is 4, he has had rovers kits since he was 2 and now has a season ticket although he hasn't been too much as its a bit boring for him.

Will let him make his own mind up in time what he wants to do

[bob fleming]

The boy had no choice. Simple as that. We live half a mile from the ground, all his mates (in the main) are Rovers fans - those things help massively of course. He's been sat with me and my mates as a season ticket holder in the "learn to swear club" for the past 2 seasons now - and still wants to be a Rovers fan. We foolishly took them along to their first games when that cretin Kean was in charge - that nearly did it for them to be honest (it did for thousands of others after all). But now he's happy enough. It would help if we put a run of home wins together of course - it's been years! And that's not just for the young kids either.

He did have a brief interest in City. And I mean brief. "Dad, can I get a City shirt?" - "er no mate, no chance, that isn't going to happen. We support Rovers in this house - they're our club." he understood.

The girl, aka thingy, couldn't be less bothered about football - not just Rovers. That's her prerogative of course. We still get on though. I'm sure she'll wise up in time.

It's a really tricky one for you D-side. You'll have to fetch him up here when he's old enough on a regular basis. That's a good two hour drive I seem to recall. Leicester doing well can't help - but it won't last.

You need to, when the time is right, hit him with our history. The famous, much copied, blue and white halves. The only town team to ever likely win the Premier League - from out of nowhere. Shearers goals. Jack Walker. Simon Garner, Ronnie Clayton - Captain of England. Tugay! The only club to win a trophy in 3 different centuries (I've no idea if that's still true by the way but hey, your lad won't know). Winning the FA Cup three times in a row. And how, wait until he's a lot older, you once saw Chris Brown score for the Rovers. He won't believe it, and neither will I, but he'll be hooked!

Good luck.

[tkturner]

I associate following and going to watch The Rovers with when I first started having an interest in football properly as a youngster (around 8 years old for me).

Its about the area I grew up in and the happiness I experienced for many years, forging friendships and having common interests.

My first experiences of going to the match was when I received a half season ticket for Christmas, one of the old book type ones with paper tickets that were torn out.

I remember flicking through it thinking "wow, I'm going to loads of matches"

The memories that stick out for me include seeing a young Shay Given and thinking how decent he was going to be, Colin Hendry practicing headers before the match and heading the ball miles up the pitch, being amazed at how green the grass was and the smell that still can't be beaten today, loving how close you could get to the pitch and see the players!

I have lived in a few different places growing up, Lytham St Annes, Bolton, Blackburn and Manchester but always been a Rover much to some peoples confusion...

We have a great club despite the recent years where we have come off the rails a bit and its all I will encourage to my kids (when the time comes) and is all I encourage of my sisters little un's with my niece having a Rovers shirt every birthday since she was 1 with her name and age on the back, nearly time for number 8 and she says now "I can't wait for my new shirt" and I think its time to bring her to Ewood at some point soon!

I agree with both view points in this topic, hometown club is a big factor but so is where your family attend games.

My Dad is a Man City fan, haha!

What better way to get into football supporting than with Blackburn?

Cheap tickets, plenty of availability, the best and most original shirt, more of a family feel, less pressure to spend all the time, some bad times, some great times, a stadium still located within local streets and houses rather than a retail park!

[Pedro]

I was hooked after catching a ball in the Riverside when they used to whack them into the crowd before games, late 80's.

I still have mine! Do you still have yours? They were great times. Cheap and nasty footballs bit it didn't have ramp up the excitement.

[AllRoverAsia]

This is a really good thread and very enjoyable read. Well done to D-side 17s for starting it.

[had.e.nuff]

I took my boy to his first game in the 80s when he was 4 a preseason game at home against Blackpool we won 5-0 he was hooked struggled abit when he got a bit older with all his mates being glory fans of the usual sespects but stuck at it and now a true rover.I never got a choice the rovers are in the family for generations.

[stuwilky]

My eldest is now in year 10 (4th year to most of us) and is a bloody fanatic rovers fan. Many members from here have met him and been bemused by his encyclopeadic knowledge of rovers stats. Frequently he goes to matches without me, like Sunday - he bought his ticket after last weeks match - I was in Blues drowning my sorrows.

hes currently begging me to take him to his first Dingles away match, I just dont want us to loose if he comes, he pretty much cried at Ewood when they beat us there.

Ive created a monsted I think!

[Dreyski]

A big regret of mine is that neither of my parents brought me up to be a Rovers fan (dad was a RU player and mum had family connections with Stanley, who were nowhere in the 80's)

I know I won't be able to take my daughter to every Rovers match, and I won't begrudge her choosing to follow York City (for whatever reason), but I would be disappointed in she didn't hold Rovers even a little in her heart. Time to get her memorising the players of the 90s onwards...

[Lancs Rover]

.

[onlyonejackwalker]

The lad will follow his dad. Don't forget you are superman up to about age 8.

Sing Rovers songs to get him asleep. Plonk him in front of Rovers videos. Rovers pillow case etc. Before he's 4 he's brainwashed!

[donnermeat]

I'd say indoctrinate away D-Side. Though if as he grows older and his Leicester supporting mates influence him then so be it too. Ideally by then he will know which side his bread is buttered!

My wife is pregnant and though we are having a girl, she will have to like football as long as she lives under my roof. Therefore she has to be a Rovers fan! No choice in the matter.

I can see both sides of this as my dad is from Middleton, so he is a Man City fan. We went to quite a few games together at Maine Road when I was younger, but he would always take me to Ewood too. At that time I just loved football in general and I supported individual players, not a team. I only really picked a side so to speak around 1996 (9 years old), I actually specifically remember the moment too. That delay probably was the fact that he was City yet we lived in Blackburn area. To be fair to him he never tried forcing City on me, though he was a bit gutted when I chose Rovers (he's since told me). Due to my love of Rovers I could never say I have a 'second team' or whatever but obviously I always want them to win, for his sake and the fact we go to the Etihad together about 5 or 6 times a season (next up Dynamo Kiev in CL). So as I say my dad never tried forcing City on me and I ended up supporting Rovers anyway! Swings and roundabouts!

[Stuart]

Great thread.

Sadly my son doesn't show much interest in the game aged 6, despite me watching any football that's going as often as possible (except Europa League which I won't have in the house)

However the stakes are enormous for me. I'm Blackburn born and lived in the town until marriage and had father and grandfather before me watch the Rovers. So that's easy enough.

BUT I now live in the Pendle area which is overwhelmingly Dingle. I have indoctrinated the lad enough to resist playground pressure thus far and I've even taken our next door but one's 10 year old to a game (same school). Unfortunately my son's first game was Blackpool last season which didn't help much.

He was upset when Rhodes left, rather perceptively saying that it was unfair and that Rhodes just wanted to be on the side that's winning (as Bob Dylan also once said)!

As I said he's lukewarm about the game generally but if he does get into it and the Clarrots go up and stay up....noooooooo. His head may be turned. What can I do then?

Anyhow I'll be taking him to the Leeds game. Which probably means he'll support Leeds (who I did have a childhood weakness for in the early Revie 70s - well I was only 8 and impressionable but only ever went to Ewood, so I haven't ever been unfaithful really).

The other shame he will bear until the grave is that he was born in Burnley General hospital. I know I know but I'm not sure they had a maternity ward in Blackburn when he was born.

Can you change your place of birth by deed poll or statutory declaration?

Stick with it John. My oldest spent a lot of time watching the people behind us more than the games being played. There were some rough times and he has had to live through one of the worst periods in Rovers' history (Steve Kean and all) and included, admittedly, the difficult conversation as a young lad, with me explaining solemnly that "he couldn't support anyone else because he's from Blackburn and Rovers are his team" and "you don't get to choose your team, it chooses you", it's like denouncing your nationality!

He is now as big a Rover as you'll meet. He laughs at Liverpool and Manchester City "fans" at school who have never seen a football match apart from on TV. If you were there at the Leeds game a couple of years ago, he was the lad who confidently said "I love Blackburn Rovers" and ran to the BBE after scoring his half time school penalty on the hallowed turf. (A proud moment).

It will get better. The trick is not to waiver from the message. No ifs, no buts. He probably won't thank you when he's older but at least he will be authentic, and will have developed a thick skin, and a sense of humour!

[47er]

My eldest is now in year 10 (4th year to most of us) and is a bloody fanatic rovers fan. Many members from here have met him and been bemused by his encyclopeadic knowledge of rovers stats. Frequently he goes to matches without me, like Sunday - he bought his ticket after last weeks match - I was in Blues drowning my sorrows.

hes currently begging me to take him to his first Dingles away match, I just dont want us to loose if he comes, he pretty much cried at Ewood when they beat us there.

Ive created a monsted I think!

You've done the right thing!

[mhead]

Never allowed my children to be born in Burnley despite residence. If the 2 year old cannot understand the meaning of 'disinheritance' perhaps pliers should be used.

The issue at the moment or until recently has been keeping them away from Ewood so that they can stay enthusiastic.

[speeeeeeedie]

You need to get a handle on that mate. Carrot and stick him. Talking about how Rovers are bad results in toys being taken away. Praising them results in toys. Something like that.

Nice one. I'd rather him not associate misery with Rovers before he gets attached.

He's a big Liverpool fan at the moment. I'm not too bothered about that as he's at least taking notice. The NFL dominates the airwaves in the USA. He likes that more than anything but I'll never let him play the game so he'll hopefully come around soon.

I do say though that if it comes down to a choice between kits Rovers have the best in the land. Blue and white halves are special. Even that dodgy pastel blue Perspex kit from the late Don McKay era.

[VinjayV4]

I don't want any kids so it won't be a direct problem for me. The responsibility really is down to the townsfolk as a whole (and those outside Blackburn too) but you can't really enforce such values on everyone. Negativity certainly won't help either and its clear many people are worn out particularly those who have left. I do feel really sorry for the kids in Blackburn because an awful lot that was great about this club has been taken from them. At least there's people like Jordan Rhodes who still have a heart even if he did leave.

Premier League status primarily but in other ways can't help wondering if history might actually work against Rovers. Of course there's a lot of clubs in this country that are struggling but they don't have the recent history. Hopefully I'm wrong but some kids might feel quite bitter hearing about past title battles, cup finals, Jack's dreams, etc and wonder what they have to look forward to in comparison. In some ways it almost feels cruel to introduce them to what we have now but life in general is cruel. Kids don't usually disown their parents though if they lack money/ambition so tell them not to disown their hometown club either. A lot of kids favor whatever's cool but there's a lot of cool things about Rovers. A marketable name (Rovers), great kit, brilliant stadium, and a better looking future these days.

They need to be told what a big club Rovers is as well (even if you don't believe it at least you can make your kids believe it) and one of the leading symbols of excellence in the history of English football. There's not loads of clubs above Rovers so there's no reason not to believe that. A big club is always a big club and it didn't just become a small club in the late 60's when location became a bigger issue. Seriously can the older members on here recall anyone calling Rovers a small club in the early to mid 60's? I doubt it!

Nobody is saying the club may ever be in a position of strength like 1995 anytime soon but it can damn sure be better than the last 5 years. Of course there have been huge exciting games against (Liverpool with a huge crowd, high profile opposition and a QF) and Millwall (exciting because it was a QF albeit not with a huge crowd) but no trips to the new Wembley yet. Winning the FA/League cup may be the best chance of success but it will mean an awful lot.

Kids want something to dream about and games like that (although more sporadic these days) are what this club can still be about. Premier League status can be achieved again after all Rovers would probably have been promoted in 1989 if not for an incompetent referee. Football should be about dreams despite what the cretins at UEFA have done. Its people like UEFA, Kean, selfish players and the current/previous owners who have cast such a dark cloud over this club. This town should be different to others where major clubs are concerned as unlike most places Rovers have gone head to head with them. Not Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, etc but certainly in this country. Kids need to believe Rovers can face clubs like that again (at least on closer if not entirely equal terms) and they won't need to look anywhere else. It starts from the second they are born.

As far as this season goes I can only see kids being really excited by the West Ham game and possible QF, semi, etc. So if you have any young kids who might be ready to attend their first game take them down on Sunday! At least it will probably be a more positive crowd than the league games!

Of course you can't force anything on kids who simply aren't interested in football.

[VinjayV4]

My eldest is now in year 10 (4th year to most of us) and is a bloody fanatic rovers fan. Many members from here have met him and been bemused by his encyclopeadic knowledge of rovers stats. Frequently he goes to matches without me, like Sunday - he bought his ticket after last weeks match - I was in Blues drowning my sorrows.

hes currently begging me to take him to his first Dingles away match, I just dont want us to loose if he comes, he pretty much cried at Ewood when they beat us there.

Ive created a monsted I think!

So basically you have led your kid to believe Burnley away is more important than the prospect of getting to Wembley? I'm not trying to start an argument about rivals, etc just making the point that football should be about dreams. If you look at it from that standpoint Millwall at home was by far the biggest game in 2013 not the one later that week. Don't think Dunn scoring a last minute goal (which wasn't even a winner) is much of a consolation to kids who could have had at least one Wembley trip that season. If kids are getting the impression beating Burnley is all this club can aspire towards something is badly wrong. Yeah call it an attempt at emotional blackmail if you want but its the truth. Its no wonder kids might want to go somewhere else if that's all they believe is important.

Before people say that's just my viewpoint people like parsonblue (and at least one person RevidgeBlue agreed with him) considered Millwall a much bigger game. He's been around this club longer than most people on this board.

Suppose Yoda and Abbey will be along soon with the usual comments attempting to bully me into a reaction. Its because of people like that why I "left" in the first place. I could say a lot more but it would just be deleted again for being too personal. As if their attacks on me haven't been personal not to mention completely unprovoked despite moderators trying to stop it. Occasional trips to the Etihad (mainly as a day out with a friend when I had nothing bloody better to do) is hardly the same as full fledged support. Never even owned a shirt (apart from "why always me" which I would have bought anyway as people like Tom M did) though must confess to purchasing a bag of crisps in the stadium once.

I came back because I feel much better mentally its as simple as that. Different to the others who left because they don't like the owners or Championship football. I haven't changed many of my opinions its just that things don't upset me as much anymore. Not making this thread about me just beating Yoda and Abbey to the punch before THEY make it about me. Not giving them the satisfaction I'm extremely defensive by nature can't help it.