[Archived] Children's Football

[onlyonetugay]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12171203/Parents-on-football-touchline-so-violent-someone-could-be-killed-youth-league-chairman-warns.html

A sad state of affairs

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

In my opinion the atmosphere in amateur football in general is a truly unsavoury one. Psychotically aggressive parents yelling on the touchline in kids games, psychotically aggressive adults kicking lumps out of each other in adults games.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255414/Footballer-jailed-horrific-tackle-left-victim-broken-leg.html

Its just become a vent for those low on talent and high on anti-social tendencies to vent their frustrations in life. Its an arena where the standard social boundaries that discourage angry confrontation come down, and the only form of authority are increasingly petrified refs who are leaving the game in droves.

Having played in plenty of amateur football myself, I've seen mass brawls, broken noses/jaws from punches, people on the touchline running onto the pitch to attack players, and all manner of "see you after the game" threats to opposition players and referees. Its a tragic and pathetic state of affairs.

The only way I can see to bring football back amateur football back to what all sports should be (an enjoyable, sociable experience), is to have a couple of bobbies up at the pitches on a Saturday afternoon/sunday morning. And let these idiot adults help fork out the cost for it.

[K-Hod]

In terms of adults footy I've seen some truly scary stuff. A few lads had a brawl in the middle of the game, one left the pitch to return from his van with a hammer! They all got banned, but then they ended up there the next season, the administration were too afraid of them to take action.

I'll be the first to admit I can be competitive when it comes to footy, but I've never crossed the line like many of the examples noted above and like I can think of off the top of my head.

[Tom]

There was a sickening incident a couple of weeks back where one kid in Weatherfield intentionally broke another kids legs.

Thankfully his mum sent him to his alcoholic dads house in Portsmouth for half term and he's come back a little more chilled.

Those bloody Barlows!

[oldjamfan1]

This sort of thing isn't necessariIy a new or modern phenomenon. I remember playing in a Blackburn Combination Cup semi final many years ago at Pleasington against a team from somewhere over Haslingden way. They came on a 52 seater coach packed with team plus 30 odd 'supporters' and plenty more in cars and vans. The actual team were relatively normal lads. Played it hard but mainly fair. Their 'supporters', however, abused and threatened our team from the first whistle, while sinking crates of booze on the side of the pitch. Half way through the second half, with them actually beating us at the time 1-0, one of the Neanderthals on the touchline tried to trip our winger up and all hell broke loose, resulting in the police being called and a handful of people requiring hospital treatment, including one of their players.

The strange thing was, the game eventually restarted and we scored a last minute equalizer then thrashed them in extra time. I'm sure they would have won that game but for the idiocy of their drunken mates.

Fights in the changing rooms at Pleasy and Whitebirk were commonplace in the 80s, particularly between Darwen and Blackburn sides. Local pride etc. Mainly involving blokes who held down fairly responsible jobs and should have known better, it has to be said.

[Stuart]

This sort of thing isn't necessariIy a new or modern phenomenon. I remember playing in a Blackburn Combination Cup semi final many years ago at Pleasington against a team from somewhere over Haslingden way. They came on a 52 seater coach packed with team plus 30 odd 'supporters' and plenty more in cars and vans. The actual team were relatively normal lads. Played it hard but mainly fair. Their 'supporters', however, abused and threatened our team from the first whistle, while sinking crates of booze on the side of the pitch. Half way through the second half, with them actually beating us at the time 1-0, one of the Neanderthals on the touchline tried to trip our winger up and all hell broke loose, resulting in the police being called and a handful of people requiring hospital treatment, including one of their players.

The strange thing was, the game eventually restarted and we scored a last minute equalizer then thrashed them in extra time. I'm sure they would have won that game but for the idiocy of their drunken mates.

Fights in the changing rooms at Pleasy and Whitebirk were commonplace in the 80s, particularly between Darwen and Blackburn sides. Local pride etc. Mainly involving blokes who held down fairly responsible jobs and should have known better, it has to be said.

Where abouts were the Whitebirk pitches/facilities, ojf?

[oldjamfan1]

Where abouts were the Whitebirk pitches/facilities, ojf?

They were built on while I was still playing football so it must be 25 or 30 years since there were pitches there Stuart. I don't really know the locality so couldn't say what is built on it now but it was just off the main road that linked Intack and Brownhill, and there must have been 5 or 6 pitches there I think. I seem to recall Mullards or Phillips being adjacent to it? Someone who still lives locally will be able to answer for you. Arbitro will definitely know the exact grid locations of it as he played and occasionally reffed down there.

[JAL]

They were built on while I was still playing football so it must be 25 or 30 years since there were pitches there Stuart. I don't really know the locality so couldn't say what is built on it now but it was just off the main road that linked Intack and Brownhill, and there must have been 5 or 6 pitches there I think. I seem to recall Mullards or Phillips being adjacent to it? Someone who still lives locally will be able to answer for you. Arbitro will definitely know the exact grid locations of it as he played and occasionally reffed down there.

Whitekirk pitches where on the land from the back of Philips or PDO as it later became known, down to the rail way line and upto the ring road or A6119. You can access the land via Challenge Way these days which wasn't there back in the day.

Then you could access it from the ring road. Wasnt there also a couple of pitches across the ring road probably where the car dealerships are now

[oldjamfan1]

Whitekirk pitches where on the land from the back of Philips or PDO as it later became known, down to the rail way line and upto the ring road or A6119. You can access the land via Challenge Way which wasn't there back in the day.

Then you could access it from the ring road. Wasnt there also a couple of pitches across the ring road probably where the car dealerships are now

That sounds about right JAL.

[JAL]

That sounds about right JAL.

Always enjoyed playing on pitches one and two back in the day.

[oldjamfan1]

Yeah I liked Whitebirk. I always seemed to bag one or two on there for some reason. They were often very heavy weren't they?

[VinjayV4]

Send a children's social services representative to the games that should calm things down! Clearly these leagues need to be run in a more professional manner too. I've never really experienced "park football" other than when I used to play football with other kids. Nobody would have wanted me in their school or children's local leagues anyway. The matter of adult amateur football is a different subject really though I'm about to go off topic a bit...

Would the pitches have been where the Mercedes Benz dealership is not far from the Range? Used to be B & Q before that. I guess that's when the pitches were removed around the time of the retail park being built. Not just talking about the PC World, etc presumably the B & Q was built around the same time. Seen stuff in the LT about the new "Frontier Park" development including a hotel, etc. I believe the club considered the "Greenbank" area as a potential site for the stadium back in the early 90's. I can't recall what the excuse was (Guide was considered too windy and Geenbank might have been "access problems" but I'm not certain) but Jack wanted it built at Ewood anyway. It wasn't a complete waste of time since they did note Brockhall as a suitable site for a training ground. Apparently Jack later regretted rebuilding at Ewood and Williams even said a new stadium wasn't impossible down the line! Not talking about the late 90's either within the last 10 years.

Here's the quote...

JURY: Traffic is becoming an increasing problem around Ewood on matchdays. Would you ever consider moving to a new ground closer to the M65 at some point in the future?

JOHN: Not in the medium term but it would be foolish to rule it out forever. If the hallowed marble halls of Highbury can move then I'm pretty sure Ewood Park could move, too.

A lot would depend on the council's approach to planning and zoning and what Ewood Park was worth. But I do worry about access to Ewood and, as people get more picky and choosy, the A666 is a problem.

[Stuart]

Thanks ojf and JAL. I'm visualising it being near where the police station now is. I've a feeling my dad would have played on there back on the day. Cheers.

[patrickvalery]

It's part and parcel of football where I live. We played a preseason match a few years back. The opposition turned up with three crates of stellar. The players not the contingent of goons with not even the talent or body mass index to participate. During the match a lad in his early twenties had clearly drunk enough to think he was a cross between Bruce Lee and Lionel Messi. He thought it was hilarious to stand directly in front of a one of our younger lads when he was taking a throw in (harmless enough). Our fullback unintentionally clipped him with his arm when he took the throw in. So Bruce Lee cleaned him out soon after. I didn't much like that so at the next opportunity I took the opportunity to win the ball off him but let him know about it in the process. Firm but totally fair. It kicked off like I've never seen. The hoods on the touchline came on. One had crutches and was swinging like Babe Ruth! The match eventually continued. On 90 min we walked off and back to the changing rooms with much talk of a car park rendezvous. At which point a bloke jumped out of a car and nutted the ref before dishing out a couple of slaps for good measure. I got changed and found the lad who I'd clattered stood waiting for me with a rusty metal stake in one hand and a stellar on the other telling me he was extremely keen to stab me in the throat. Luckily for me I was wearing a rollneck sweater and this confused the poor lamb. Anyway, the sheer weight of numbers won out and he stood there swaying like the @#/? up Knob head he was. But still,not the kind of preseason friendly we were expecting.

It's not pretty but it's certainly par for the course in crap level Sunday league football I reckon.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Bloody hell that was a good one! I'm sure everyone who's played in it long enough has experiences of the extremely nasty side of it and it can be exciting and make good stories if you were one of the lucky ones to come away relatively unscathed.

But taking a step back I do think why is it like that, why is it tolerated. Why don't the FA instruct refs to give immediate cards for any dissent, threats of violence on the pitch. Why don't league officials report every single instance of the latter 2. Why don't the police start taking an active role in deterrance, even if its just sticking posters on dressing room walls or issuing warnings in league meetings.

It can be sorted out if enough effort is put in. And I'm not saying sterilise the amateur game, but make it an activity based around fun instead of intimidation and where success is dictated by ability rather than violence. Then the asbo types might get the message that football isn't their weekly excuse to t*** someone.

[patrickvalery]

Bloody hell that was a good one! I'm sure everyone who's played in it long enough has experiences of the extremely nasty side of it and it can be exciting and make good stories if you were one of the lucky ones to come away relatively unscathed.

But taking a step back I do think why is it like that, why is it tolerated. Why don't the FA instruct refs to give immediate cards for any dissent, threats of violence on the pitch. Why don't league officials report every single instance of the latter 2. Why don't the police start taking an active role in deterrance, even if its just sticking posters on dressing room walls or issuing warnings in league meetings.

It can be sorted out if enough effort is put in. And I'm not saying sterilise the amateur game, but make it an activity based around fun instead of intimidation and where success is dictated by ability rather than violence. Then the asbo types might get the message that football isn't their weekly excuse to t*** someone.

Because at that level refs are at the mercy of the yobs. They get paid about 30 quid to give up a Sunday morning and they have no support at all. They're subject to the usually hungover and angry mob. At least that how is seems to me.

I wouldn't be a ref for love nor money.

[JAL]

Thanks ojf and JAL. I'm visualising it being near where the police station now is. I've a feeling my dad would have played on there back on the day. Cheers.

Stuart go past the police station and under the railway bridge directly to the left of you is where Whitebirk playing fields was. The VW and Toyota dealership are directly on the other side of the road.

[Stuart]

Stuart go past the police station and under the railway bridge directly to the left of you is where Whitebirk playing fields was. The VW and Toyota dealership are directly on the other side of the road.

Gotcha. I wasn't too far away!

[oldjamfan1]

In Scotland, what they call 'junior football' is actually adult football at what we would know as semi professional level. All the thuggery described by me, Patrick Valery and others above happens on a regular basis in these leagues, particularly in Ayrshire for some reason. And these are meant to be the better players up here!!

My fondest memories of playing football are of kicking lumps out of my opponent for 90 minutes then buying him a pint after the match. Its nice to see some old team photos being posted on the likes of Facebook (in fact I believe there is a group called 'Blackburn and Darwen football teams of the 70s and 80s'. Anyone who played in that era should check it out)

[Lancaster Rover]

I played academy football and signed pro forms for a league 2 club as a youngster, I was never good enough to make it at that level and always had half an eye on going to uni, career, etc. I stopped playing for a pro club at 19 and went and trialled at a few local conference and conference north clubs but starting work full time and travelling it just wasn't working out. I thought at that point I'd play local football. I played for 1 season before knocking it on the head. Spending my Saturday afternoons being kicked from pillar to post by some talentless lunatic all because I'd played at higher level was not my idea of fun. For no reason other than I'd been good as a young lad was I singled out for people to try and snap my leg. That sort of mentality seems the norm in local league football. I packed in and went back to the club I played at and volunteered with the youth teams and academy eventually getting my badges, a much more enjoyable and productive way to spend my free time.

[Tom]

I was never good but I was fast, that alone was good enough reason in the lower Blackburn combination leagues to be kicked then stamped on etc.

Plus any game against certain teams would almost always end in a huge ruck and racism seemed absolutely rife (both ways) in those leagues.

However that was all in the adult leagues, always enjoyed playing for Langho in my youth which was a lovely club to be a part of and saw very little issues in those leagues:

[oldjamfan1]

I played academy football and signed pro forms for a league 2 club as a youngster, I was never good enough to make it at that level and always had half an eye on going to uni, career, etc. I stopped playing for a pro club at 19 and went and trialled at a few local conference and conference north clubs but starting work full time and travelling it just wasn't working out. I thought at that point I'd play local football. I played for 1 season before knocking it on the head. Spending my Saturday afternoons being kicked from pillar to post by some talentless lunatic all because I'd played at higher level was not my idea of fun. For no reason other than I'd been good as a young lad was I singled out for people to try and snap my leg. That sort of mentality seems the norm in local league football. I packed in and went back to the club I played at and volunteered with the youth teams and academy eventually getting my badges, a much more enjoyable and productive way to spend my free time.

When blokes my age talk about 'kicking lumps' out of opponents generally speaking it was hard but fair. However, players with reputations have always been targetted - and at all levels too. The likes of George Best, Frank Worthington, Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh etc even in the upper echelons of the pro game were the victims of strong arm tactics every week. Leeds United were particularly adept at it (they could all play too mind!). So what you describe is not unique to amateur football and without wanting to sound too brutal or harsh, becoming a pro footballer is about a lot more than simply having ability. A year or two in amateur or semi professional football might not be the worst experience a young footballer could go through. Ask Mark Patterson - without that he would never have been tough enough to hack it as a pro for 20 years because he was a mardy arse as a kid but toughened up by playing men's football as a 15 year old.

[Lancaster Rover]

When blokes my age talk about 'kicking lumps' out of opponents generally speaking it was hard but fair. However, players with reputations have always been targetted - and at all levels too. The likes of George Best, Frank Worthington, Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh etc even in the upper echelons of the pro game were the victims of strong arm tactics every week. Leeds United were particularly adept at it (they could all play too mind!). So what you describe is not unique to amateur football and without wanting to sound too brutal or harsh, becoming a pro footballer is about a lot more than simply having ability. A year or two in amateur or semi professional football might not be the worst experience a young footballer could go through. Ask Mark Patterson - without that he would never have been tough enough to hack it as a pro for 20 years because he was a mardy arse as a kid but toughened up by playing men's football as a 15 year old.

I agree and disagree to be honest; you're right, ability accounts for about 20% of making it as a pro however being indiscriminately kicked all over does no young player any good, playing in tough conditions against a physical but fair team is great and the making of many young players. Playing against men as we used to in reserve football when they were coming back from injury or whatever was great, they're hard but fair and I learnt so much in terms of professionalism and game management. That isn't the same in amateur/park football though, some lunatic who decides their sole purpose for those 90 minutes is to hurt you is not something that is conducive to good football or development.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

A year or two in amateur or semi professional football might not be the worst experience a young footballer could go through.

The way the game is going these days I'd disagree. At the top level, English players on the whole have inferior technical ability than foreign ones which is the main source of our national team's woes. The game at the top level is increasingly becoming a non-contact sport, the number of clean, fair slide tackles I've seen penalised this season has been frankly sickening and suggests to me some ulterior motives at work. Personally I suspect the money men in football are leaning on the likes of FIFA (who are so corrupt that must be like leaning on air) to protect their assets, which means nothing should be legal in the game that can cause injury.

If football is becoming a non-contact sport at the high levels then the last thing we want is youngsters playing in an environment that is virtually the definition of win the physical battle before you're allowed to play. Take them out of that and into an environment where technical ability is what matters, and we might start producing a few Iniestas and Silvas and a less Lampards and Gerrards, which is what you need for international success.

[onlyonetugay]

When I played , Saturday morning football was generally organised by the schools. I was fortunate to play from 1st form to 1st X1 , and saw no trouble from parents watching their sons. Granted it was run and organised by professional people ( teachers) . They refereed the matches and were given respect . Sadly weekend school football has all but disappeared. Teachers have a far bigger workload than they did when I was at school and understandably want to spend time with their families , although I'm sure a lot of marking goes on at the weekend !

Now if children want to play organised football at the weekend it's run by willing volunteers , but in an ill disciplined environment where anything goes . The referees are given zero respect in the professional game and this has a knock on effect in children's football. A friend of mine took up refereeing junior football and did it for one year. I asked him why he gave up and he said he had better things to do than put up with the vile abuse he received from the touchline every week. I'm amazed we still have people who want to referee.

As a poster referred to above, we have to get tough with the thugs and idiots who think spewing abuse at referees and officials is acceptable behaviour, with absolutely no regard for the children around them. The problem is , our overly liberal society has become so tolerant of these sorts of low life that it'll be a long journey back.