[Archived] Children's Football

[VinjayV4]

When I played , Saturday morning football was generally organised by the schools. I was fortunate to play from 1st form to 1st X1 , and saw no trouble from parents watching their sons. Granted it was run and organised by professional people ( teachers) . They refereed the matches and were given respect . Sadly weekend school football has all but disappeared. Teachers have a far bigger workload than they did when I was at school and understandably want to spend time with their families , although I'm sure a lot of marking goes on at the weekend !

Now if children want to play organised football at the weekend it's run by willing volunteers , but in an ill disciplined environment where anything goes . The referees are given zero respect in the professional game and this has a knock on effect in children's football. A friend of mine took up refereeing junior football and did it for one year. I asked him why he gave up and he said he had better things to do than put up with the vile abuse he received from the touchline every week. I'm amazed we still have people who want to referee.

As a poster referred to above, we have to get tough with the thugs and idiots who think spewing abuse at referees and officials is acceptable behaviour, with absolutely no regard for the children around them. The problem is , our overly liberal society has become so tolerant of these sorts of low life that it'll be a long journey back.

Yeah its terrible when youth have lousy "role models" to look up to.

[Lancaster Rover]

I have to say the discipline, etc in pro club youth teams is excellent. The behaviour of parents, is closely monitored. The problem tends to be at local kids football with d*ckhead know nowt dads who think their lad scoring in sunday kids football is going to make them the next big thing.

[onlyonetugay]

I have to say the discipline, etc in pro club youth teams is excellent. The behaviour of parents, is closely monitored. The problem tends to be at local kids football with d*ckhead know nowt dads who think their lad scoring in sunday kids football is going to make them the next big thing.

That's good to hear that pro clubs monitor behaviour of parents at youth level. Sadly the behaviour of some professionals who play for these clubs at the top level leaves a lot to be desired. Whether they like it or not they are role models and should be more aware of that .

[VinjayV4]

That's good to hear that pro clubs monitor behaviour of parents. Sadly the behaviour of professionals w

Should monitor behavior and professionalism for youth coaches as well. In other words not predictably handing out jobs to people who spent half their career down the pub or injured.

[Lancaster Rover]

Jesus that didn't take you long.

I'm pretty sure employment legislation has distinct laws about injuries........... what about employing youth coaches with vast amounts of experience and most importantly a pro license?

[onlyonetugay]

Jesus that didn't take you long.

I'm pretty sure employment legislation has distinct laws about injuries........... what about employing youth coaches with vast amounts of experience and most importantly a pro license?

It does , the disability provisions of the Equality Act 2010 , as long as they are injuries that meet the definition of a disability

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I can't remember much of that sort of stuff in my playing days in the sixties. The tackling was hard but fair. I liked the rough stuff but I never injured a player to the point where he had to go off. There were one or two players who went out to injure people but you knew who they were by and large and you watched your back.

As a kid I played against a Sunday team once from Langley near Middleton, Manchester. A really rough overspill from Manchester council estate. The guy I was marking on the left wing played the whole game wearing a studded belt over his shorts ! He was hopeless, maybe the belt slowed him down.

[onlyonetugay]

I can't remember much of that sort of stuff in my playing days in the sixties. The tackling was hard but fair. I liked the rough stuff but I never injured a player to the point where he had to go off. There were one or two players who went out to injure people but you knew who they were by and large and you watched your back.

As a kid I played against a Sunday team once from Langley near Middleton, Manchester. A really rough overspill from Manchester council estate. The guy I was marking on the left wing played the whole game wearing a studded belt over his shorts ! He was hopeless, maybe the belt slowed him down.

Hilarious !

[ABBEY]

Should monitor behavior and professionalism for youth coaches as well. In other words not predictably handing out jobs to people who spent half their career down the pub or injured.

What's it got to do with you if people go for a pint ?

Question ... I get accused of negative stuff on here but do you actually have a good word for anyone anywhere ?

Christ you really are a miserable git.

[Lancaster Rover]

Footballer in having life outside of football shocker, sainthood turned down!

[oldjamfan1]

The way the game is going these days I'd disagree. At the top level, English players on the whole have inferior technical ability than foreign ones which is the main source of our national team's woes. The game at the top level is increasingly becoming a non-contact sport, the number of clean, fair slide tackles I've seen penalised this season has been frankly sickening and suggests to me some ulterior motives at work. Personally I suspect the money men in football are leaning on the likes of FIFA (who are so corrupt that must be like leaning on air) to protect their assets, which means nothing should be legal in the game that can cause injury.

If football is becoming a non-contact sport at the high levels then the last thing we want is youngsters playing in an environment that is virtually the definition of win the physical battle before you're allowed to play. Take them out of that and into an environment where technical ability is what matters, and we might start producing a few Iniestas and Silvas and a less Lampards and Gerrards, which is what you need for international success.

Whcih would you prefer? Then or now? Contact sport or non contact sport? The way academies are run is part of the problem for me - you can't sanitise a contact sport without changing it beyond recognition and to portray Lampard and Gerrard as examples of where our game has gone wrong tells its own story.

Maybe I'm just getting old......

[Ivorsemion]

My lad has been playing in the ELFA junior leagues up at the soccerdome (and outdoor too) on Sunday mornings for a couple of years now and I can honestly say that i've not witnessed any abuse of refs or arguing between parents etc.

I know that clubs are required by the FA to have 'respect' lines, behind which all spectators should stand (obviously doesn't apply to the soccerdome). If they fail to comply with this rule they face being fined by the FA - it seems to work very well.

[Stuart]

I have to say the discipline, etc in pro club youth teams is excellent. The behaviour of parents, is closely monitored. The problem tends to be at local kids football with d*ckhead know nowt dads who think their lad scoring in sunday kids football is going to make them the next big thing.

Nothing more frustrating than those chasing the dream at an early age. Nearly as bad is Mr Dad who offers his child a £ per goal!

[VinjayV4]

My lad has been playing in the ELFA junior leagues up at the soccerdome (and outdoor too) on Sunday mornings for a couple of years now and I can honestly say that i've not witnessed any abuse of refs or arguing between parents etc.

I know that clubs are required by the FA to have 'respect' lines, behind which all spectators should stand (obviously doesn't apply to the soccerdome). If they fail to comply with this rule they face being fined by the FA - it seems to work very well.

Speaking of the Soccerdome they have just banned Blackburn Youth Zone teams after a violent incident.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/14303652.Blackburn_Youth_Zone_worker_suspended_after_man__physically_and_verbally_attacked__at_Soccerdome/?ref=mr&lp=13

[onlyonetugay]

Speaking of the Soccerdome they have just banned Blackburn Youth Zone teams after a violent incident.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/14303652.Blackburn_Youth_Zone_worker_suspended_after_man__physically_and_verbally_attacked__at_Soccerdome/?ref=mr&lp=13

Yes I read that. I've heard many a tale about the thugs that play in the adult leagues at the Soccerdome and from that report it looks like junior football is infected too.

An excellent article this morning in the Times by their Chief Sportswriter , Matt Dickinson who talks about the FA's Respect campaign as "a whisper in a gale " The FA point to a reduction in bookings for dissent and fewer assaults on referees. He goes on to say " But no one is plausibly going to claim that a culture of aggression and abuse has shifted. Even if the worst incidents come from a tiny minority, they are an extremely persistent thuggish minority and they are often joined by the touchline loudmouth , the insanely pushy parent , the coach of the under 12s with delusions that he is Jose Mourinho"

Dickinson goes on to suggest that as a start we need an all out assault on abusive language and behaviour from the top of the professional game right down to the junior grass roots. Why not send Rooney off for telling the linesman to F off ? After a couple of matches the message would get through, problem would be solved and children would see that it was unacceptable and wouldn't copy it. Even parents might get the message

I've never been able to understand why Alex Ferguson was knighted . Yes his managerial achievements were impressive, but his treatment of referees, the media and other managers was despicable and hardly deserving of being called " Sir"

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Yes I read that. I've heard many a tale about the thugs that play in the adult leagues at the Soccerdome and from that report it looks like junior football is infected too.

An excellent article this morning in the Times by their Chief Sportswriter , Matt Dickinson who talks about the FA's Respect campaign as "a whisper in a gale " The FA point to a reduction in bookings for dissent and fewer assaults on referees. He goes on to say " But no one is plausibly going to claim that a culture of aggression and abuse has shifted. Even if the worst incidents come from a tiny minority, they are an extremely persistent thuggish minority and they are often joined by the touchline loudmouth , the insanely pushy parent , the coach of the under 12s with delusions that he is Jose Mourinho"

Dickinson goes on to suggest that as a start we need an all out assault on abusive language and behaviour from the top of the professional game right down to the junior grass roots. Why not send Rooney off for telling the linesman to F off ? After a couple of matches the message would get through, problem would be solved and children would see that it was unacceptable and wouldn't copy it. Even parents might get the message

I've never been able to understand why Alex Ferguson was knighted . Yes his managerial achievements were impressive, but his treatment of referees, the media and other managers was despicable and hardly deserving of being called " Sir"

Couldn't agree more on all those points!

The soccerdome leagues I've played in have on the whole had more kick-offs per minute than Sunday League footy, maybe its the close quarters enclosed nature of the pitch.

The pros are the first place to start with changing amateur level behaviour. As thuggish as amateur football can still be, I've personally witnessed a creeping change of attitudes regarding tackling. Players are far more likely to be up in arms now about a scything tackle than they used to be, which in my opinion is down to the shifting of the professional game to one of less contact. Wipe out serious dissent in the level of televised football and I could definitely see it filtering down the football pyramid.

As for Ferguson, his and his teams behaviour towards refs was utterly atrocious. It got the results he wanted (abject fear from the entire association) but it was as ugly and unfair as it gets. He was a complete bully on that score and its a joke how he had the gall to criticise teams like Chelsea for surrounding refs when the likes of Giggs, Ferdinand and Rooney gave them the hairdryer treatment at every single negative decision.

[Stuart]

Yes I read that. I've heard many a tale about the thugs that play in the adult leagues at the Soccerdome and from that report it looks like junior football is infected too.

An excellent article this morning in the Times by their Chief Sportswriter , Matt Dickinson who talks about the FA's Respect campaign as "a whisper in a gale " The FA point to a reduction in bookings for dissent and fewer assaults on referees. He goes on to say " But no one is plausibly going to claim that a culture of aggression and abuse has shifted. Even if the worst incidents come from a tiny minority, they are an extremely persistent thuggish minority and they are often joined by the touchline loudmouth , the insanely pushy parent , the coach of the under 12s with delusions that he is Jose Mourinho"

Dickinson goes on to suggest that as a start we need an all out assault on abusive language and behaviour from the top of the professional game right down to the junior grass roots. Why not send Rooney off for telling the linesman to F off ? After a couple of matches the message would get through, problem would be solved and children would see that it was unacceptable and wouldn't copy it. Even parents might get the message

I've never been able to understand why Alex Ferguson was knighted . Yes his managerial achievements were impressive, but his treatment of referees, the media and other managers was despicable and hardly deserving of being called " Sir"

Great post. Completely agree about swearing. Outright ban from the PL down. Telling a referee to F off in a professional game should be an instant red.

[oldjamfan1]

Great post. Completely agree about swearing. Outright ban from the PL down. Telling a referee to F off in a professional game should be an instant red.

Agree 100%.That would lend some credibility to the Respect agenda.

[patrickvalery]

Its a dangerous road to go down if you ask me. The game is getting sterile enough already. I'm not condoning players being punished for stepping over the mark, but its not the act of swearing I object to, more the level of aggression it is delivered in. Its possible to say "eff off ref, that's never a free kick" and it be perfectly reasonable and carrying no malice. But its all about the delivery and of course entirely subjective to how its received. Like most disciplinary matters it can be solved by refs using some common sense. I don't think we want to encourage actions which dilute the vigour at which our game is played. It matters that it matters.

However, the same cannot be said for spectators. In an amateur level where the ref can clearly be communicated with, parents, coaches or substitutes shouldn't ba able to swear at the referee. There's a distinct difference to showing frustration at what your doing and what your watching. One should be able to be kept in check far easier than the other.

I wish I knew what the answers are to clean up youth and amateur football. But I do know I don't want football to be squeaky clean. Its a working mans game and I already here some people making reference to going to the football in comparison to going to the theatre. Its already being attacked by the PC brigade and already being priced to attract the corporate customer. I think we need to be very careful we don't fritter away things the common man identified with in the first place. Its why we all love it isn't it?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Its a dangerous road to go down if you ask me. The game is getting sterile enough already. I'm not condoning players being punished for stepping over the mark, but its not the act of swearing I object to, more the level of aggression it is delivered in. Its possible to say "eff off ref, that's never a free kick" and it be perfectly reasonable and carrying no malice. But its all about the delivery and of course entirely subjective to how its received. Like most disciplinary matters it can be solved by refs using some common sense. I don't think we want to encourage actions which dilute the vigour at which our game is played. It matters that it matters.

However, the same cannot be said for spectators. In an amateur level where the ref can clearly be communicated with, parents, coaches or substitutes shouldn't ba able to swear at the referee. There's a distinct difference to showing frustration at what your doing and what your watching. One should be able to be kept in check far easier than the other.

I wish I knew what the answers are to clean up youth and amateur football. But I do know I don't want football to be squeaky clean. Its a working mans game and I already here some people making reference to going to the football in comparison to going to the theatre. Its already being attacked by the PC brigade and already being priced to attract the corporate customer. I think we need to be very careful we don't fritter away things the common man identified with in the first place. Its why we all love it isn't it?

Personally just don't see why swearing or aggression towards the referee has to be synonymous with passion. Fine if its to the opposition (although I'd still draw the line at physical threats there) but the ref should be able to do his job without being sworn at full stop. If a cashier gave you the wrong change you wouldn't say "**** off love I gave you a tenner" in whatever tone of voice.

There's just no need for it in my opinion, its phenomenally disrespectful which I suppose sums the problem up. In football, players think the ref is there to take stick, and fans think their players are there to take stick. Its time both took a look at themselves in my opinion. Rugby has plenty of passion and I wouldn't describe it as squeaky clean, but they respect the ref. Its always struck me as a bit of a cop out players giving the ref dog's abuse when they wouldn't aim it at some of the big lads on the opposition.

Isn't the common man a reasonable person? Maybe I've too much faith in humanity there but I'd like to think most people aren't compelled to behave like a-holes just because they're playing football.

[onlyonetugay]

Its a dangerous road to go down if you ask me. The game is getting sterile enough already. I'm not condoning players being punished for stepping over the mark, but its not the act of swearing I object to, more the level of aggression it is delivered in. Its possible to say "eff off ref, that's never a free kick" and it be perfectly reasonable and carrying no malice. But its all about the delivery and of course entirely subjective to how its received. Like most disciplinary matters it can be solved by refs using some common sense. I don't think we want to encourage actions which dilute the vigour at which our game is played. It matters that it matters.

However, the same cannot be said for spectators. In an amateur level where the ref can clearly be communicated with, parents, coaches or substitutes shouldn't ba able to swear at the referee. There's a distinct difference to showing frustration at what your doing and what your watching. One should be able to be kept in check far easier than the other.

I wish I knew what the answers are to clean up youth and amateur football. But I do know I don't want football to be squeaky clean. Its a working mans game and I already here some people making reference to going to the football in comparison to going to the theatre. Its already being attacked by the PC brigade and already being priced to attract the corporate customer. I think we need to be very careful we don't fritter away things the common man identified with in the first place. Its why we all love it isn't it?

The irony is , it's the PC brigade that has got us where we are. We have an overly liberal and overly tolerant society which has failed to stamp out the behaviour of the idiots , the thugs and the morons who play and attend both senior and junior amateur football. There's nothing manly about telling a referee to F off because he's given a decision against you. I'd describe that as pure cowardice because you know he isn't going to put your lights out for saying it. The "manly " thing to do would be to accept the decision and get on with the game. We can still have a physical man's game without the abusive and vile language which comes out of "professional " ( using that term loosely) footballers' mouths and filters down to senior and junior football. A Sunday morning spent watching games at Pleasington tells you all you need to know about that .

[oldjamfan1]

Its a dangerous road to go down if you ask me. The game is getting sterile enough already. I'm not condoning players being punished for stepping over the mark, but its not the act of swearing I object to, more the level of aggression it is delivered in. Its possible to say "eff off ref, that's never a free kick" and it be perfectly reasonable and carrying no malice. But its all about the delivery and of course entirely subjective to how its received. Like most disciplinary matters it can be solved by refs using some common sense. I don't think we want to encourage actions which dilute the vigour at which our game is played. It matters that it matters.

However, the same cannot be said for spectators. In an amateur level where the ref can clearly be communicated with, parents, coaches or substitutes shouldn't ba able to swear at the referee. There's a distinct difference to showing frustration at what your doing and what your watching. One should be able to be kept in check far easier than the other.

I wish I knew what the answers are to clean up youth and amateur football. But I do know I don't want football to be squeaky clean. Its a working mans game and I already here some people making reference to going to the football in comparison to going to the theatre. Its already being attacked by the PC brigade and already being priced to attract the corporate customer. I think we need to be very careful we don't fritter away things the common man identified with in the first place. Its why we all love it isn't it?

I can honestly say that I was a hard player who never swore at a referee once in my life, and I certainly wasn't unusual in that respect. So although I understand where you are coming from, showing respect for officials by not swearing at them should not necessarily take the aggression out of the game, for me they are two distinct and different things.

Personally just don't see why swearing or aggression towards the referee has to be synonymous with passion. Fine if its to the opposition (although I'd still draw the line at physical threats there) but the ref should be able to do his job without being sworn at full stop. If a cashier gave you the wrong change you wouldn't say "**** off love I gave you a tenner" in whatever tone of voice.

There's just no need for it in my opinion, its phenomenally disrespectful which I suppose sums the problem up. In football, players think the ref is there to take stick, and fans think their players are there to take stick. Its time both took a look at themselves in my opinion. Rugby has plenty of passion and I wouldn't describe it as squeaky clean, but they respect the ref. Its always struck me as a bit of a cop out players giving the ref dog's abuse when they wouldn't aim it at some of the big lads on the opposition.

Isn't the common man a reasonable person? Maybe I've too much faith in humanity there but I'd like to think most people aren't compelled to behave like a-holes just because they're playing football.

Great minds, we posted similar things there simultaneously, yours with more eloquence than mine.

[patrickvalery]

I'm sorry but I think in the midst of an adrenaline fuelled activity it's not unreasonable to swear. I never once walked onto a football pitch and had anything but respect for a referee. But I've used blue language when talking to or with many of them. Even heard it in return!

There's a difference between calling a ref an effing this or that and using swearing in a conversation.

As for the cashier analogy. It doesn't work. Where's the sport and adrenaline in a weekly shop? A trolley dash perhaps!!

I'm not saying I want a free for all. Certainly not. But I could grab a ref by the throat and throttle the poor bloke and never swear once. It's the aggressive actions not the industrial language which is a problem. Yes the two can go hand in hand. But they don't have to and very often don't. As I said, it's common sense.

[oldjamfan1]

I'm sorry but I think in the midst of an adrenaline fuelled activity it's not unreasonable to swear. I never once walked onto a football pitch and had anything but respect for a referee. But I've used blue language when talking to or with many of them. Even heard it in return!

There's a difference between calling a ref an effing this or that and using swearing in a conversation.

As for the cashier analogy. It doesn't work. Where's the sport and adrenaline in a weekly shop? A trolley dash perhaps!!

I'm not saying I want a free for all. Certainly not. But I could grab a ref by the throat and throttle the poor bloke and never swear once. It's the aggressive actions not the industrial language which is a problem. Yes the two can go hand in hand. But they don't have to and very often don't. As I said, it's common sense.

We are probably on the same page then PV, I think swearing in a conversation is totally different to swearing AT an official. I've never really understood the berating of officials to be honest. Are they more or less likely to give you a decision after you've called them a blind bar steward (and I'm not really talking about professional football here)? I always found that if you were on good terms with refs and linesmen and treated them with respect, they were more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt. There was a referee in the Blackburn Combination called Phil Oates. Lovely fella. I used to go into the refs room if I knew he was our referee that day and ask him how his wife and kiddies were etc then advise him on the opposition (e.g. watch out for their number 5 Phil, likes to give a wee shove just as a set piece is coming into the box - sure enough, he was watching out for it and lo and behold, he gives a penalty!).

[K-Hod]

I can't say I agree with it being anything to do with a liberal society, just more so that it has trickled down from the pro game, people thinking they can get away with it because they do. On the whole I've found refs to be fed up and no nonsense for the most part, which I can't blame them for! Especially given the treatment they receive from some!