[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

Interesting survey in the article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35688060

[Steve Moss]

I have no dog in this particular fight, but does the EU prevent you from deciding who enters the UK and/or whether they get benefits?

[jim mk2]

Call it the Murdoch index or the Daily Mail barometer, but whatever issue the Sun, Times, Mail, Express and Telegraph is either for against, the intelligent response is to take a contrarian view.

The conclusion is clear: Britain should Remain in the EU.

[yoda]

I have no dog in this particular fight, but does the EU prevent you from deciding who enters the UK and/or whether they get benefits?

Any one who is a citizen of a country in EU has the right to enter the UK, likewise a UK citizen has the right of entry the EU countries.

The question of benefits is a minefield with the UK government and others saying the benefits paid should be in line with the countries of origin and also delayed full amounts being paid for a number of years.

The financial benefit in being in the EU is also being questioned now re trade, the UK deficit on trade is now £29 billion just with Germany, in other words they sell more to us than we sell to them, so in theory they need to trade with the UK whether the UK is in or out of the EU

[Mike E]

I don't like that our Government appears to bow down to bureaucrats in the EU, rather than the people they serve (the electorate). The very fact the the Common Market (what was voted for) changed so drastically into a political union means the referendum is needed.

I personally don't believe that we'd collapse if we left the EU. I reckon we'd be fine and be allowed to concentrate on our own industries, while negotiating deals with many many other countries.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Call it the Murdoch index or the Daily Mail barometer, but whatever issue the Sun, Times, Mail, Express and Telegraph is either for against, the intelligent response is to take a contrarian view.

The conclusion is clear: Britain should Remain in the EU.

Personally think all media sources except the ones you approve of should be shut down to prevent anyone from straying from the path of jim and thus becoming thick. Even though the Guardian is the undisputed universal truth, widely acclaimed as the godlike result of the secret discovery of a Grand Unified Theory, even it can't be fully trusted. You seem to have the pulse of the town as a Europhile hotbed, maybe its worth using it as a base from which to campaign that everyone has been brainwashed by the Daily Mail and to abandon the referendum immediately.

[yoda]

Personally think all media sources except the ones you approve of should be shut down to prevent anyone from straying from the path of jim and thus becoming thick. Even though the Guardian is the undisputed universal truth, widely acclaimed as the godlike result of the secret discovery of a Grand Unified Theory, even it can't be fully trusted. You seem to have the pulse of the town as a Europhile hotbed, maybe its worth using it as a base from which to campaign that everyone has been brainwashed by the Daily Mail and to abandon the referendum immediately.

According to the beeb it is a Eurosceptic town, can't believe Jim lives there

[K-Hod]

I think people just have to take most papers with a pinch of salt, people really shouldn't believe everything they read (though granted, a lot do). As long as people have fully examined whether to exit or remain, then you can't say fairer than that. Two sides to every story etc.

Though, personally I'd rather we stayed!

[yoda]

I think people just have to take most papers with a pinch of salt, people really shouldn't believe everything they read (though granted, a lot do). As long as people have fully examined whether to exit or remain, then you can't say fairer than that. Two sides to every story etc.

Just like that

Where are people going to get the accurate info to make a judgement, I really don't know, yet

[Baz]

Just like that

Where are people going to get the accurate info to make a judgement, I really don't know, yet

I haven't seen anyone even attempt to start presenting facts yet.

We appear to now live in a situation where politicians and media seem scared to present anything to the electorate above 15 seconds long, in case our brains somehow cannot cope.

[K-Hod]

Feck knows Yoda! Best just to google it, I've seen some fairly impartial articles/information with the benefits/pitfalls etc. I always try to be balanced and accept that there are two sides of every story, everyone thinks differently about different things etc. (Granted I'm not always the best at practicing what I preach)....😉

[yoda]

Feck knows Yoda! Best just to google it, I've seen some fairly impartial articles/information with the benefits/pitfalls etc. I always try to be balanced and accept that there are two sides of every story, everyone thinks differently about different things etc. (Granted I'm not always the best at practicing what I preach)....

I think we all suffer from that from time to time.

One thing I can't get my head around is Sturgeon, she is bleating (negative in itself) that Cameron is running a negative campaign but they both want the same thing ! with the huge contradiction that she wants independence for Scotland but wants to kowtow to Brussels WTF is that all about

[Paul]

Scotland wants the opportunity to be an independent country within the EU. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[MCMC1875]

Scotland wants the opportunity to be an independent country within the EU. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Where's your evidence for this Paul? A majority of Scots may yet vote out which is why Sturgeon has made no guarantees.

Call it the Murdoch index or the Daily Mail barometer, but whatever issue the Sun, Times, Mail, Express and Telegraph is either for against, the intelligent response is to take a contrarian view.

The conclusion is clear: Britain should Remain in the EU.

Well thought out that Jim.

[BlueMonday]

Just like that

Where are people going to get the accurate info to make a judgement, I really don't know, yet

Much like the independence referendum, you'll get very little. You'll get spin and counter spin, scare and counter scare. MPs are incapable Of having an intelligent grown up debate. They don't want to inform you, they want to win.

[dave birch]

Just like that

Where are people going to get the accurate info to make a judgement, I really don't know, yet

You've just got to read and read and read. Take in as much as you can and then make your mind up.

It's sometimes beneficial to look outside the square and see what's being said there.

As I see it, within the UK and the EU there are only those that state their onesided view, but if you check opinions from other countries outside the UK and the EU you might, just might get a more objective view.

[oldjamfan1]

Scotland The SNP wants the opportunity to be an independent country within the EU. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Corrected for you Paul. Scotland voted to remain part of the UK

[onlyonetugay]

Interesting survey in the article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35688060

Whether we vote to stay or leave it's all pretty academic anyway .

The EU is on a life support machine , dying a slow and painful death . It lacks any democratic legitimacy , it's principle of free movement and open borders is in disarray and the Euro ( a politcal instrument to further Federalism ) , will, as Mervyn King said yesterday, stumble from crisis to crisis.

Would we join this club of disparate European nations if we weren't already in it ?

[onlyonetugay]

What I love about the EU debate is it's tendency to create unusual bedfellows. UKIP and Owen Jones are one example !

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic

Owen's comment has so much truth :

"An anti-EU campaign could help the left reconnect with working-class communities it lost touch with long ago."

This is backed up by the survey Yoda has quoted. It's the English working class areas, Blackburn being one , that tend to be eurosceptic and in some of these areas ( Blackburn not being one !) large numbers voted UKIP in the last election , giving Labour the kicking it got.

The problem is the left wing intelligentsia wouldn't recognise these white English working class communities if they bumped into them .

[Jock]

In my job as an electrician we've had lots of changes brought in by the EU including the colour changes of cables. Then when you go abroad to other member states and see their wiring you realise that they don't adhere to EU rules.

Part P, taking the P!ss

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

What I love about the EU debate is it's tendency to create unusual bedfellows. UKIP and Owen Jones are one example !

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/14/left-reject-eu-greece-eurosceptic

Owen's comment has so much truth :

"An anti-EU campaign could help the left reconnect with working-class communities it lost touch with long ago."

This is backed up by the survey Yoda has quoted. It's the English working class areas, Blackburn being one , that tend to be eurosceptic and in some of these areas ( Blackburn not being one !) large numbers voted UKIP in the last election , giving Labour the kicking it got.

The problem is the left wing intelligentsia wouldn't recognise these white English working class communities if they bumped into them .

I noticed that about the survey. Jim expressed delight at his prophecy that the referendum would rip the Conservative party apart. Not sure about that one but what it will do is give the educated left another uncomfortable truth to urgently try and ignore. Once again the working class party's middle class leadership has completely disagreed on an issue with the working class it apparently represents.

[Paul]

Where's your evidence for this Paul? A majority of Scots may yet vote out which is why Sturgeon has made no guarantees.

Well thought out that Jim.

Corrected for you Paul. Scotland voted to remain part of the UK

Yes, you're both quite correct. I should have said SNP.

[Steve Moss]

In my job as an electrician we've had lots of changes brought in by the EU including the colour changes of cables. Then when you go abroad to other member states and see their wiring you realise that they don't adhere to EU rules.

Part P, taking the P!ss

That's called respect for the rule of law, which is a very British trait but not so much in other parts of the world.

[yoda]

Scotland wants the opportunity to be an independent country within the EU. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

They just had a referendum and voted to stay in the union. Sturgeon has no mandate to leave

[jim mk2]

The fun is just beginning.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/332e52f4-dfa4-11e5-b072-006d8d362ba3.html#axzz41flvvWXb