[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

So to sum up, you didn't believe the warnings from the ECB, BoE, IMF, World Bank, White House, UK Govt, EU Palt and EU Commission before the vote, now Mark Carney and others are saying this is really happening, you don't believe them either!

Learn to read Jim instead of spouting off, I said it looks like he has all the bases covered

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

3 horrifying incidents of mass murder carried out by Sunni Muslim extremists in a week since Brexit. All conducted in the usual style, treat any honourable rules of war with total disregard, kill as many civilians as possible, and pick targets with the most number of people who are simply in some way different to how they are.

The day before Brexit saw a record number of migrants rescued from the Mediterranean crossing into Europe. 4,500 in one day, how many made it through that day without needing to be rescued, 10,000? How many have arrived in the last 18 months? Getting on for 2 million.

Migrants who are from the most dangerous, terrorist breeding grounds in the world, who are in the most part Sunni Muslim, and two-thirds of whom are adult men. I mean does it need spelling out what is going to start happening in the EU with increasingly regularity in the coming years?

But forget the threat from people who systematically butcher civilians, we're going to hell in a handcart because the pound has been temporarily devalued.

[JBiz]

But an exit from Europe won't stop immigration SKH, that's essentially the words of Gove unless I'm mistaken. Geography will not change, the inequality, instability, violence and hatred will not change by us leaving the EU.

You know what might change? Say a gulf state or area supports a cause developing terrorism? When we go to France, and Germany to ask for support... ?

[jim mk2]

3 horrifying incidents of mass murder carried out by Sunni Muslim extremists in a week since Brexit. All conducted in the usual style, treat any honourable rules of war with total disregard, kill as many civilians as possible, and pick targets with the most number of people who are simply in some way different to how they are.

The day before Brexit saw a record number of migrants rescued from the Mediterranean crossing into Europe. 4,500 in one day, how many made it through that day without needing to be rescued, 10,000? How many have arrived in the last 18 months? Getting on for 2 million.

Migrants who are from the most dangerous, terrorist breeding grounds in the world, who are in the most part Sunni Muslim, and two-thirds of whom are adult men. I mean does it need spelling out what is going to start happening in the EU with increasingly regularity in the coming years?

But forget the threat from people who systematically butcher civilians, we're going to hell in a handcart because the pound has been temporarily devalued.

The Ukip manual on Muslim extremism

1. Frame all Muslims as dangerous

2. Twist statistics to prove the Muslim 'threat'

3. Invent the danger of 'creeping Sharia'

4. Claim Islam is not a religion.

5. Blame all migrants/Muslims for Europe's problems

6. Portray the BBC as biased towards Muslims.

Repeat ad nauseum

Learn to read Jim instead of spouting off, I said it looks like he has all the bases covered

You mean he's so worried he's getting the country into further debt by throwing money at the problem.

[pg]

If true, that just demonstrates that there is a lack of real world experience in all three parties at the moment (and in both of ours here in the USA). There was a time that we had former military officers, businessmen, successful farmers, etc. running the western nations. Now it looks like they go from the classroom straight into politics. It's a disgrace.

This same phenomena has occurred in Australia as well, much to our own detriment. The major parties are run by professional politicians who continue to play University Student politics.

The professional political class is now completely detached from the Australian public on several major issues.

It is not England leaving the EU, it is the UK.

Not sure the Scottish people agree with you on that one.

Good riddance to Farage. My opinion of him hasn't changed since day one.

One trick Tory with a big gob and a small brain. Refreshing for politics? What class divide has he closed? What inequality has he impacted?

Nothing.

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[gumboots]

3 horrifying incidents of mass murder carried out by Sunni Muslim extremists in a week since Brexit. All conducted in the usual style, treat any honourable rules of war with total disregard, kill as many civilians as possible, and pick targets with the most number of people who are simply in some way different to how they are.

The day before Brexit saw a record number of migrants rescued from the Mediterranean crossing into Europe. 4,500 in one day, how many made it through that day without needing to be rescued, 10,000? How many have arrived in the last 18 months? Getting on for 2 million.

Migrants who are from the most dangerous, terrorist breeding grounds in the world, who are in the most part Sunni Muslim, and two-thirds of whom are adult men. I mean does it need spelling out what is going to start happening in the EU with increasingly regularity in the coming years?

But forget the threat from people who systematically butcher civilians, we're going to hell in a handcart because the pound has been temporarily devalued.

I suspect the EU which so far has kept most of the immigrants coming from Syria and other Middle eastern war zones within mainland Europe might just think why bother to spend a fortune policing channel ports. If the British want to control their own borders, let them. It wouldn't take much relaxation of vigilance for those camps currently in Calais to overspill into the tunnel and we don't really have the resources on our own to stop it. I suspect there will be far more illegal immigrants coming in as we try to control legal immigration.

[philipl]

You don't live in Britain .

Yes I have a home in Britain.

[ABBEY]

The Ukip manual on Muslim extremism

1. Frame all Muslims as dangerous

2. Twist statistics to prove the Muslim 'threat'

3. Invent the danger of 'creeping Sharia'

4. Claim Islam is not a religion.

5. Blame all migrants/Muslims for Europe's problems

6. Portray the BBC as biased towards Muslims.

Repeat ad nauseum

You mean he's so worried he's getting the country into further debt by throwing money at the problem.

As opposed to hating Aussies , Americans & Italians ?

[yoda]

The Ukip manual on Muslim extremism

1. Frame all Muslims as dangerous

2. Twist statistics to prove the Muslim 'threat'

3. Invent the danger of 'creeping Sharia'

4. Claim Islam is not a religion.

5. Blame all migrants/Muslims for Europe's problems

6. Portray the BBC as biased towards Muslims.

Repeat ad nauseum

You mean he's so worried he's getting the country into further debt by throwing money at the problem.

You obviously did not listen to a thing he said

[Blueandwhitemike]

Sober review

[yoda]

This same phenomena has occurred in Australia as well, much to our own detriment. The major parties are run by professional politicians who continue to play University Student politics.

The professional political class is now completely detached from the Australian public on several major issues.

Not sure the Scottish people agree with you on that one.

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

When the Queen comes clean and explains to them, that they have to be independent before applying to join the EU it will all change.

How many years will that be without the Barnet formula propping the country up ?

[Al]

So to sum up, you didn't believe the warnings from the ECB, BoE, IMF, World Bank, White House, UK Govt, EU Palt and EU Commission before the vote, now Mark Carney and others are saying this is really happening, you don't believe them either!

What I do know Jim is that my stock market based ISA's are up by nearly £2 grand since the Brexit vote. That will do for me. Not to mention that the weaker pound will do wonders for exports and let's face it we will hardly notice the difference with European holidays. All is going well as far as I am concerned.

Such a shame you cannot accept that you have lost the vote.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

But an exit from Europe won't stop immigration SKH, that's essentially the words of Gove unless I'm mistaken. Geography will not change, the inequality, instability, violence and hatred will not change by us leaving the EU.

You know what might change? Say a gulf state or area supports a cause developing terrorism? When we go to France, and Germany to ask for support... ?

I agree, it won't stop immigration. I mean half of immigration is from outside the EU anyway. But if it reduces it in some significant way then its for the benefit of this country IMO. As I've said in the past, the military budget of the US dwarfs any European country, if we've got them then we don't need France and Germany. If we haven't got them then France and Germany would be more likely to **** themselves than they would help us tackle the problem. In any case our own public would prevent a war, the psychotic left-wing reaction to bombing IS in Syria has shown terrorists everywhere that they can do what they want and western countries' own populaces will stop them being able to prevent it.

I suspect the EU which so far has kept most of the immigrants coming from Syria and other Middle eastern war zones within mainland Europe might just think why bother to spend a fortune policing channel ports. If the British want to control their own borders, let them. It wouldn't take much relaxation of vigilance for those camps currently in Calais to overspill into the tunnel and we don't really have the resources on our own to stop it. I suspect there will be far more illegal immigrants coming in as we try to control legal immigration.

I agree it would cause problems if France started being difficult, but I'm sure there'd be a way round the problem. Throw money at them like the EU did with Turkey if all else fails. Consider the alternative, a million arrived in the EU in 2015, that is being matched so far in 2016, and there's nothing to suggest it will slow down in the future. So a million a year coming in, they'll be granted citizenship, they'll have to be. The liberal argument will be that to not do is to make them second class citizens and push them towards extremism, which I happen to agree with. So these millions of migrants, coming in most cases from countries that make Turkey look moderate, have citizenship and free movement into the UK to live and work. We have a better benefits system, large migrant communities already that are accepted and a smaller language barrier (English being the global language). Chances are many will come here, the existence of Calais is testament to that. So all of a sudden we get a big influx on our already massive net immigration, and its from demographics who will find it harder to integrate and carry a great extremism threat than the traditional Europeans looking for work.

[philipl]

What has been a steady trickle of education businesses looking to leave the UK because of the restrictions on students has at the end of last week turned into a rush of all kinds of very high end high tech businesses largely founded in the UK by non-British EU citizens or people who have migrated to the UK from outside the EU.

I shudder to think how many enquiries the large consultancies are coping with but this looks horrible for Britain.

[Gav]

What has been a steady trickle of education businesses looking to leave the UK because of the restrictions on students has at the end of last week turned into a rush of all kinds of very high end high tech businesses largely founded in the UK by non-British EU citizens or people who have migrated to the UK from outside the EU.

I shudder to think how many enquiries the large consultancies are coping with but this looks horrible for Britain.

Worrying time for you Philipl with the Malta situation/ex pats, how do the people out on the sun drenched island see this panning out?

[Baz]

I agree, it won't stop immigration. I mean half of immigration is from outside the EU anyway. But if it reduces it in some significant way then its for the benefit of this country IMO. As I've said in the past, the military budget of the US dwarfs any European country, if we've got them then we don't need France and Germany. If we haven't got them then France and Germany would be more likely to **** themselves than they would help us tackle the problem. In any case our own public would prevent a war, the psychotic left-wing reaction to bombing IS in Syria has shown terrorists everywhere that they can do what they want and western countries' own populaces will stop them being able to prevent it.

I agree it would cause problems if France started being difficult, but I'm sure there'd be a way round the problem. Throw money at them like the EU did with Turkey if all else fails. Consider the alternative, a million arrived in the EU in 2015, that is being matched so far in 2016, and there's nothing to suggest it will slow down in the future. So a million a year coming in, they'll be granted citizenship, they'll have to be. The liberal argument will be that to not do is to make them second class citizens and push them towards extremism, which I happen to agree with. So these millions of migrants, coming in most cases from countries that make Turkey look moderate, have citizenship and free movement into the UK to live and work. We have a better benefits system, large migrant communities already that are accepted and a smaller language barrier (English being the global language). Chances are many will come here, the existence of Calais is testament to that. So all of a sudden we get a big influx on our already massive net immigration, and its from demographics who will find it harder to integrate and carry a great extremism threat than the traditional Europeans looking for work.

At this moment in time, its more likely that we will need to accept the free movement of people in order to have the trade arrangements we need financially. So the extra controls you talk about may be useless.

As for Calais and the jungle, the local mayor wants an end to it, I cannot think that anyone in this country would accept having a camp in kent to stop people who weren't British and didnt want to be in Britain from going to France to claim assylum.

[Guest]

Farage I suspect isn't done with politics. He will probably stand as an MP again in 2020, maybe even return to the Tory fold if a brexiter and the right wingers take over the party. Leadsom was asked if Farage could be part of her brexit negotiation team and she wouldn't rule it out.

I think Farage is done with politics.

Farage failed to win the South Thanet seat* in last year's General Election. Farage then announced he would stand down as leader of UKIP. Farage then u-turned on that and was, I suspect, persuaded to stay on for one more year to fight for Brexit. Due to the previous intention to resign, I think Farage was always going to throw the towel in after the referendum, regardless of the result. Then again, Farage is "a man of his word", so if his definition of that is anything to go by, there's every chance that he'll still be UKIP leader for some time to come.

Let's cast our mind back to the live EU TV debates. Robbie Gibb is the editor of live political programmes on the BBC and has close ties with the Tories. Gibb not once offered Farage a live TV debate with Cameron. The best that Farage was offered was a live TV debate with Nicola Sturgeon, which he refused. This isn't just highly suspicious, it's blatant, and I don't blame Farage for telling the BBC to shove it and not appear.

There is no love lost between Farage and the Tories, and there'll be no acceptance of each other. Farage has said far too many things against the political establishment (ironic) and the Tories to be accepted in political circles. I'm sure he is done, and will now, like most other politicians that he so quickly derides, set up some cushy numbers that will set him up for life. Keep an eye out on that one, folks.

*The Tories are still being investigated for election fraud here. It's alleged that they pumped in a lot of undeclared resources (money and people) into the campaign here to ensure that Farage did not get in. This isn't the only seat that the Tories allegedly did this.

[Baz]

I think Farage is done with politics.

Farage failed to win the South Thanet seat* in last year's General Election. Farage then announced he would stand down as leader of UKIP. Farage then u-turned on that and was, I suspect, persuaded to stay on for one more year to fight for Brexit. Due to the previous intention to resign, I think Farage was always going to throw the towel in after the referendum, regardless of the result. Then again, Farage is "a man of his word", so if his definition of that is anything to go by, there's every chance that he'll still be UKIP leader for some time to come.

Let's cast our mind back to the live EU TV debates. Robbie Gibb is the editor of live political programmes on the BBC and has close ties with the Tories. Gibb not once offered Farage a live TV debate with Cameron. The best that Farage was offered was a live TV debate with Nicola Sturgeon, which he refused. This isn't just highly suspicious, it's blatant, and I don't blame Farage for telling the BBC to shove it and not appear.

There is no love lost between Farage and the Tories, and there'll be no acceptance of each other. Farage has said far too many things against the political establishment (ironic) and the Tories to be accepted in political circles. I'm sure he is done, and will now, like most other politicians that he so quickly derides, set up some cushy numbers that will set him up for life. Keep an eye out on that one, folks.

*The Tories are still being investigated for election fraud here. It's alleged that they pumped in a lot of undeclared resources (money and people) into the campaign here to ensure that Farage did not get in. This isn't the only seat that the Tories allegedly did this.

He's too much of a big head to just retire from politics, he'll be on as much TV as he can find.

[Guest]

[jim mk2]

I think Farage is done with politics.

Farage failed to win the South Thanet seat* in last year's General Election. Farage then announced he would stand down as leader of UKIP. Farage then u-turned on that and was, I suspect, persuaded to stay on for one more year to fight for Brexit. Due to the previous intention to resign, I think Farage was always going to throw the towel in after the referendum, regardless of the result. Then again, Farage is "a man of his word", so if his definition of that is anything to go by, there's every chance that he'll still be UKIP leader for some time to come.

Let's cast our mind back to the live EU TV debates. Robbie Gibb is the editor of live political programmes on the BBC and has close ties with the Tories. Gibb not once offered Farage a live TV debate with Cameron. The best that Farage was offered was a live TV debate with Nicola Sturgeon, which he refused. This isn't just highly suspicious, it's blatant, and I don't blame Farage for telling the BBC to shove it and not appear.

There is no love lost between Farage and the Tories, and there'll be no acceptance of each other. Farage has said far too many things against the political establishment (ironic) and the Tories to be accepted in political circles. I'm sure he is done, and will now, like most other politicians that he so quickly derides, set up some cushy numbers that will set him up for life. Keep an eye out on that one, folks.

*The Tories are still being investigated for election fraud here. It's alleged that they pumped in a lot of undeclared resources (money and people) into the campaign here to ensure that Farage did not get in. This isn't the only seat that the Tories allegedly did this.

Well there's a surprise. The right wing owns much of the print media and it is infiltrating our national broadcaster to an increasing degree. We pay our licence fee and expect to see a fair and balanced political debate on the BBC but more and more that is not the case.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Great rant but would he ever go ballistic about the real baddies in the world? Three bombing attacks in one week kill hundreds and injure thousands of civilians in the world, not a peep from any liberals in this country, not a single unprompted harsh word. Yet that clown is willing to burst a blood vessel over Cameron's potential replacements. Another slave to political fashion.

[philipl]

The first casualty of Brexit is the land funds in which everybody's pension has a stake which is immediately impacting construction and the suspension of operations at Accrington brick works yesterday.

There has also been am alarming reduction in the number of job vacancies being advertised. One estimate is as high as a difference of 800000 between the number of ads actually placed in the week before the referendum and the number booked for the current week.

In uncertain times, people postpone investment decisions until risk can be assessed then measured. It looks like uncertainty is the only certainly for at least the next three months so Brexit will inevitably produce a full blown recession before any decision is taken on article 50, negotiations objective, single market or the roughly 8m people who are either EU National in the UK or UK national in the EU.

I am writing this in my home in London

[philipl]

Just read two reports and I am terrified for the UK. Goldman Sachs is bleak but a poll of European financial people is truly horrible.

Only 36% think Brexit will happen so the downside of Brexit is not yet fully priced in....

This is the most catastrophic avoidable own goal and everyone in Britain is probably going to be on average nearly 10% poorer on average than they would have been if the vote had gone the other way.

But then Gove said he had heard too much from the experts.

[ABBEY]

let it go

[MCMC1875]

Just read two reports and I am terrified for the UK. Goldman Sachs is bleak but a poll of European financial people is truly horrible.

Only 36% think Brexit will happen so the downside of Brexit is not yet fully priced in....

This is the most catastrophic avoidable own goal and everyone in Britain is probably going to be on average nearly 10% poorer on average than they would have been if the vote had gone the other way.

But then Gove said he had heard too much from the experts.

.