[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[gumboots]

The problem is that people are seeing it as won or lost. It wasn't like a football match. There are no points for having been on the Leave side, no prizes, no trophies. The vote has shown up some of the awful divides that still exist in our society, some of the deep insecurities and fears. What is clear is that nobody won. The leading Leave campaigners have all gone from being big players to being peripheral figures. The PM has gone. The opposition leader ambles on trying to pretend he's the leader his supporters think he is and the only apparent alternative is a woman who can't string a coherent sentence together let alone sound like she could inspire voters to vote Labour. Our new prime minister will be chosen from a majority of tory party members, not exactly representative of the majority of the country. And that PM will have to disentangle us from the EU with the best terms they can get, an EU that will not be happy at being kept waiting till September to find out who they are dealing with. The Chilcote report in the meantime has opened up the possibility of Blair being put on trial or impeached. It probably won't happen but the issue will be endlessly debated at the point of the greatest turmoil in politics I can remember. Nobody won when we had the referendum. We all lost a bit of our famous tolerance. We all lost some of our stability. It's a mess pure and simple. And it won't be an easy fix.

[Biddy]

Italian banking crisis looming which could massivly affect the Euro and the whole Eurozone. http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/06/bank-runs-bailouts-and-downgrades-what-italys-future-could-look-like.html

http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/07/07/bail-out-nerves-still-shredding-italian-banks-stocks/

[oldjamfan1]

The problem is that people are seeing it as won or lost. It wasn't like a football match. There are no points for having been on the Leave side, no prizes, no trophies. The vote has shown up some of the awful divides that still exist in our society, some of the deep insecurities and fears. What is clear is that nobody won. The leading Leave campaigners have all gone from being big players to being peripheral figures. The PM has gone. The opposition leader ambles on trying to pretend he's the leader his supporters think he is and the only apparent alternative is a woman who can't string a coherent sentence together let alone sound like she could inspire voters to vote Labour. Our new prime minister will be chosen from a majority of tory party members, not exactly representative of the majority of the country. And that PM will have to disentangle us from the EU with the best terms they can get, an EU that will not be happy at being kept waiting till September to find out who they are dealing with. The Chilcote report in the meantime has opened up the possibility of Blair being put on trial or impeached. It probably won't happen but the issue will be endlessly debated at the point of the greatest turmoil in politics I can remember. Nobody won when we had the referendum. We all lost a bit of our famous tolerance. We all lost some of our stability. It's a mess pure and simple. And it won't be an easy fix.

Best post I've seen on the whole issue.

[Al]

33% of all University research is funded by the EU.

The reason for this withdrawal is that Britain will no longer be involved in EU decision -making so the investment is going where there will be a seat at the table.

Are you still bleating? The votes have been counted you know.

This "chill out, you've lost" reply to anyone pointing out the damage uncertainty is having, it just makes you sound like an idiot!

Whilst the democratic decision is taken, telling people they can't comment on the impact is ridiculous.

And the lack of acceptance does not?

[ABBEY]

Not only that jbzize didn't vote

[K-Hod]

Gumboots has it nailed. Stupid comments won't get us anywhere about 'you lost' etc, 'democracy', the same democracy allows people freedom of speech to air their fears and concerns. There is no question that people's lives will be affected by us not being in the EU. Some positively, others negatively. Childish one-line comments on here/elsewhere on the internet and in person (from both sides of the debate) don't achieve anything but to raise tensions and wind people up even more and need to cease.

Whilst we all need to at least attempt to move on, our government needs to make the first steps for us to do so.

Whatever the size of the majority, a majority voted to leave the EU, so our government needs to get on with it and stop faffing about.

[Gav]

Best post I've seen on the whole issue.

You've clearly not been reading mine

Good post gumboots

[JBiz]

Are you still bleating? The votes have been counted you know.

And the lack of acceptance does not?

People can accept the vote and still comment on what negative effect it's having.

This "put your fingers in your eyes" to the issues that vote has caused sums up why referendums are the device of despots.

People voted out, so what? If someone has the opinion (especially based on certain facts) the country is currently suffering for it, that's not bleating - it's giving a view point.

Not only that jbzize didn't vote

And my decision not to has been vindicated by the fallout of the vote. One side based in fear, the other in lies - neither had a plan for either event.

Sickened that we pay these politicians so much.

[Al]

People can accept the vote and still comment on what negative effect it's having.

This "put your fingers in your eyes" to the issues that vote has caused sums up why referendums are the device of despots.

People voted out, so what? If someone has the opinion (especially based on certain facts) the country is currently suffering for it, that's not bleating - it's giving a view point.

It's bleating and that's what you are doing again!

[JBiz]

It's bleating and that's what you are doing again!

I think others can make their own minds up. Freedom of speech says I can comment on my frustrations of how badly the country is run..

If that's a result of "turkeys voting for Christmas" then that is my opinion and no comments like "stop crying" are going to alter that.

Why don't you share some things that have happened because of the vote which we can celebrate? I don't mean Cameron leaving either, despite my dislike of his bs - there is a huge chasm that will only cause more uncertainty.

Bigger pensions, wages? Lower taxes? A better future?

Right now everything seems up in the air.

[yoda]

I think others can make their own minds up. Freedom of speech says I can comment on my frustrations of how badly the country is run..

If that's a result of "turkeys voting for Christmas" then that is my opinion and no comments like "stop crying" are going to alter that.

Why don't you share some things that have happened because of the vote which we can celebrate? I don't mean Cameron leaving either, despite my dislike of his bs - there is a huge chasm that will only cause more uncertainty.

Bigger pensions, wages? Lower taxes? A better future?

Right now everything seems up in the air.

It's more like, non players off the green please

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I think others can make their own minds up. Freedom of speech says I can comment on my frustrations of how badly the country is run..

If that's a result of "turkeys voting for Christmas" then that is my opinion and no comments like "stop crying" are going to alter that.

Why don't you share some things that have happened because of the vote which we can celebrate? I don't mean Cameron leaving either, despite my dislike of his bs - there is a huge chasm that will only cause more uncertainty.

Bigger pensions, wages? Lower taxes? A better future?

Right now everything seems up in the air.

Serious question, did it never bother you that an increasing number of our laws and policies (with the ultimate EU goal being all of them) were being made by an organisation that is unelected and largely unregulated?

FIFA, UEFA and the IOC are good examples of the utterly incompetent, corrupt, bloated, pre-historic disgraceful messes that that slippery slope can eventually lead to. I don't think the EU is anything like them YET but it's a lot less democratic than our own government and that can only be a bad thing.

Immigration trumped sovereignty for me but that would have been my main concern had immigration been at sensible levels for the last 20 years.

[JAL]

Mate I didn't vote. I couldn't decide because of no real facts just fear or lies.

The reality is looking like we've all lost though.

This to me is the most important issue which asks of our democracy can we go forward and continue to allow the public to be fed such poor quality information in future.

Can't believe no one is addressing this most important issue.

Reading philipl's claim on EU funding to education in this country then the recent academy's issue, is there a full on attempt to dumb down the future education of the masses in this country ?

[JBiz]

Serious question, did it never bother you that an increasing number of our laws and policies (with the ultimate EU goal being all of them) were being made by an organisation that is unelected and largely unregulated?

FIFA, UEFA and the IOC are good examples of the utterly incompetent, corrupt, bloated, pre-historic disgraceful messes that that slippery slope can eventually lead to. I don't think the EU is anything like them YET but it's a lot less democratic than our own government and that can only be a bad thing.

Immigration trumped sovereignty for me but that would have been my main concern had immigration been at sensible levels for the last 20 years.

When we are talking about our own governance do we include the unelected House of Lords of descendant of a Dutch family Queen?

I'm under no illusion that the EU needed changing, particularly the decision making process but that's not changeable from outside the room.

[yoda]

When we are talking about our own governance do we include the unelected House of Lords of descendant of a Dutch family Queen?

I'm under no illusion that the EU needed changing, particularly the decision making process but that's not changeable from outside the room.

I would say in the coming months/years the UK has dramatically changed the EU

[JBiz]

I would say in the coming months/years the UK has dramatically changed the EU

To suit us and the people in our country?

[yoda]

To suit us and the people in our country?

That will be the end result yes

[JBiz]

That will be the end result yes

In your opinion.

If we are better off as a country in 20 years, I'll take my hat off to those who told me it would go that way, in the mean time I'm more than concerned about who will pay for the uncertainty.

I can probably guess...

[yoda]

In your opinion.

If we are better off as a country in 20 years, I'll take my hat off to those who told me it would go that way, in the mean time I'm more than concerned about who will pay for the uncertainty.

I can probably guess...

Of course it is in my opinion,

If you wanted a different outcome you should have voted, still being on the fence you can critizise both sides can't you.

[JBiz]

Yes I can. I can criticise the remain argument for fear tactics and the leave for lies, that's without even citation as it's an accepted fact.

My opinion on how this will pan out in 20 years also includes things that have happened since the vote. I couldn't foresee or believe the outcomes given before - hence why I couldn't vote for either.

[yoda]

Yes I can. I can criticise the remain argument for fear tactics and the leave for lies, that's without even citation as it's an accepted fact.

My opinion on how this will pan out in 20 years also includes things that have happened since the vote. I couldn't foresee or believe the outcomes given before - hence why I couldn't vote for either.

Woolly to say the least

[JBiz]

Woolly to say the least

Still, who's going to pay for the "Mammoth" dent in the economy.

Austerity MK11!

[yoda]

Still, who's going to pay for the "Mammoth" dent in the economy.

Austerity MK11!

I might be being a bit radical here but why don't we put all our energies into avoiding that scenario instead of constantly bleating about it ?

[Al]

I think others can make their own minds up. Freedom of speech says I can comment on my frustrations of how badly the country is run..

If that's a result of "turkeys voting for Christmas" then that is my opinion and no comments like "stop crying" are going to alter that.

Why don't you share some things that have happened because of the vote which we can celebrate? I don't mean Cameron leaving either, despite my dislike of his bs - there is a huge chasm that will only cause more uncertainty.

Bigger pensions, wages? Lower taxes? A better future?

Right now everything seems up in the air.

Already said if you want to read. My ISA's are up by over £2k

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I might be being a bit radical here but why don't we put all our energies into avoiding that scenario instead of constantly bleating about it ?

Why don't Rovers fans put all their energies into supporting the team instead of moaning about it? I'm sure there's some psychological reason out there.

Can't help but reiterate how superficial this concern about the economy seems when the best party at handling it in recent times has been lambasted by the same group of people on every front but the economy, which has up until a few months ago barely got a mention.

Support the doctors strikes. But we can't afford their current contracts. Who cares! Support the teachers strikes. But we can't afford to pay them more to work less. Who cares! Stop cutting public services. But we can't afford them. Who cares! End austerity. But what about the national debt? Who cares! Let's leave Europe. You can't do that, what about the economy!!!