[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[philipl]

Here is your future.

And whether it is or not is entirely for the EU 27 to decide.

Dear Brits: This is what it’s like to be a non-EU citizen
By Nina Avramovic Trninic
In all the post-Brexit hysteria, we were interested in finding out what the “ordinary” British voters thought about leaving the European Union. And the media has hundreds of stories about the motivations of those who voted to stay and those who voted to leave.

But let me tell you a few things about the life of a non-EU citizen. When I came to Austria from Bosnia in 2003 to study at Technical University of Graz, I had to undergo various administrative and non-administrative checks. At one point, I and all my fellow Bosnian students had to show proof we didn’t have pneumonia, typhus – which I somewhat understand.

But we even had to prove we did not have RABIES. Rabies! In the 21st century!

My home country is only about 300 kilometers from Austria and yet we were treated as if we came from 200 years ago, at least. On top of that, we had – and still have – the pleasure of needing a visa every year and paying for it, of course. We even paid tuition for college, though the Austrians and EU students did not. But that was the deal, and I personally was happy to be able to work the lowest level student jobs and in return get a decent education.

The common attitude was “deal with it!” and so we did.

After college, I got my first job at a big construction company. The trick? I worked with a Bosnian contract. It was an all-in contract, written for slaves. But hey, I had a job. I was one of three people in my branch office who had a master’s degree in engineering (much less went to college), spoke three foreign languages, drove 50,000 kilometers per year, yet I was still paid less than everyone.

But I dealt with it.

If the company was to say at any moment I was fired, I had two months to leave the country or find a new company. Many highly qualified non-EU citizens live this kind of life day-to-day and the only thing on our minds is, “What the hell was on the UK’s mind when they voted LEAVE?”

The UK always was the “favorite (and the spoiled) kid of the EU family.” It kept its currency. It had more favorable EU conditions and it always behaved a bit stand-offish toward the rest of the Europe, if we are honest. The UK has about 52 million residents and pays about 5 billion euros to EU fund per year (96 euros per citizen).

By comparison, Austria has 8 million residents and pays about 1 billion euros per year to EU fund (125 euros per citizen). Cornwall for example voted LEAVE and yet they were to get financial help from the EU in the amount of 200 million euros per year until 2020. Funny thing is, they hope to keep the financial help, even when they exit from the EU!

My friend, who is also a non-EU citizen, is a business developer and marketer in our company. We have highly developed technology that – aside from Austria – only Switzerland and Germany produce. In today’s business world, where business is international, everything is happening faster and closer. Of course, our company – like our competitors – does business abroad.

In order just to visit the UK for conferences, meetings and business development, non-EU citizens – including my friend – have to pay approximately 199 euros for a 6-month UK visa, 499 euros for 2 years and 800 euros for 5 years. And they take your passport while they work on your visa, so forget about traveling for a couple of weeks at least. I can only imagine what the procedure is like for those who actually want to work in the UK.

But I guess once again we just deal with it, right?

Talking to various fellow Austrians, all of them said pretty much the same thing: It will be interesting to see how things go from here AND the world will continue spinning without the UK in EU.

All in all, the UK did the EU a favor, showing all the other 27 member countries that leaving the EU is not a dream. It is a nightmare. So in Austria, where Right Wing parties have supported the “leave EU campaign” for some time, the leave voices suddenly have become quiet.

In my opinion, the ones who are harmed – the ones who know best what benefits the EU brings – are the British expats. They lived the life abroad. They experienced more of Europe. Yet many of them did not have the right to vote at this referendum.

As much as I feel for them and that they are on the verge of losing their freedom, I cannot feel for the UK in general, given that thousands of Europeans, Asians, and Africans have lived this life for years and decades, and were happy to have the opportunity to live under normal circumstances.

The UK brought itself into this “lose-lose” situation.

And it has two options:

• The UK can proceed with the Brexit and experience the “luxurious” life of the non-EU citizen.

• Or the British can bite their tongues, say we are sorry and not proceed with leaving the EU. They turn from a spoiled, favorite child into a grown-up, responsible country and face the reality.

The reality is, you UK citizens have great lives. Your children are not drowning, fighting for their lives as they try to reach Europe. You are not bombed every day. You have good jobs that make it possible to pay the taxes and your expenses. You are the financial center of the world/Europe.

So stop whining about how hard everything is and deal with it!

[ABBEY]

[chor808]

Here is your future.

And whether it is or not is entirely for the EU 27 to decide.

Dear Brits: This is what it’s like to be a non-EU citizen

By Nina Avramovic Trninic

In all the post-Brexit hysteria, we were interested in finding out what the “ordinary” British voters thought about leaving the European Union. And the media has hundreds of stories about the motivations of those who voted to stay and those who voted to leave.

But let me tell you a few things about the life of a non-EU citizen. When I came to Austria from Bosnia in 2003 to study at Technical University of Graz, I had to undergo various administrative and non-administrative checks. At one point, I and all my fellow Bosnian students had to show proof we didn’t have pneumonia, typhus – which I somewhat understand.

But we even had to prove we did not have RABIES. Rabies! In the 21st century!

My home country is only about 300 kilometers from Austria and yet we were treated as if we came from 200 years ago, at least. On top of that, we had – and still have – the pleasure of needing a visa every year and paying for it, of course. We even paid tuition for college, though the Austrians and EU students did not. But that was the deal, and I personally was happy to be able to work the lowest level student jobs and in return get a decent education.

The common attitude was “deal with it!” and so we did.

After college, I got my first job at a big construction company. The trick? I worked with a Bosnian contract. It was an all-in contract, written for slaves. But hey, I had a job. I was one of three people in my branch office who had a master’s degree in engineering (much less went to college), spoke three foreign languages, drove 50,000 kilometers per year, yet I was still paid less than everyone.

But I dealt with it.

If the company was to say at any moment I was fired, I had two months to leave the country or find a new company. Many highly qualified non-EU citizens live this kind of life day-to-day and the only thing on our minds is, “What the hell was on the UK’s mind when they voted LEAVE?”

The UK always was the “favorite (and the spoiled) kid of the EU family.” It kept its currency. It had more favorable EU conditions and it always behaved a bit stand-offish toward the rest of the Europe, if we are honest. The UK has about 52 million residents and pays about 5 billion euros to EU fund per year (96 euros per citizen).

By comparison, Austria has 8 million residents and pays about 1 billion euros per year to EU fund (125 euros per citizen). Cornwall for example voted LEAVE and yet they were to get financial help from the EU in the amount of 200 million euros per year until 2020. Funny thing is, they hope to keep the financial help, even when they exit from the EU!

My friend, who is also a non-EU citizen, is a business developer and marketer in our company. We have highly developed technology that – aside from Austria – only Switzerland and Germany produce. In today’s business world, where business is international, everything is happening faster and closer. Of course, our company – like our competitors – does business abroad.

In order just to visit the UK for conferences, meetings and business development, non-EU citizens – including my friend – have to pay approximately 199 euros for a 6-month UK visa, 499 euros for 2 years and 800 euros for 5 years. And they take your passport while they work on your visa, so forget about traveling for a couple of weeks at least. I can only imagine what the procedure is like for those who actually want to work in the UK.

But I guess once again we just deal with it, right?

Talking to various fellow Austrians, all of them said pretty much the same thing: It will be interesting to see how things go from here AND the world will continue spinning without the UK in EU.

All in all, the UK did the EU a favor, showing all the other 27 member countries that leaving the EU is not a dream. It is a nightmare. So in Austria, where Right Wing parties have supported the “leave EU campaign” for some time, the leave voices suddenly have become quiet.

In my opinion, the ones who are harmed – the ones who know best what benefits the EU brings – are the British expats. They lived the life abroad. They experienced more of Europe. Yet many of them did not have the right to vote at this referendum.

As much as I feel for them and that they are on the verge of losing their freedom, I cannot feel for the UK in general, given that thousands of Europeans, Asians, and Africans have lived this life for years and decades, and were happy to have the opportunity to live under normal circumstances.

The UK brought itself into this “lose-lose” situation.

And it has two options:

• The UK can proceed with the Brexit and experience the “luxurious” life of the non-EU citizen.

• Or the British can bite their tongues, say we are sorry and not proceed with leaving the EU. They turn from a spoiled, favorite child into a grown-up, responsible country and face the reality.

The reality is, you UK citizens have great lives. Your children are not drowning, fighting for their lives as they try to reach Europe. You are not bombed every day. You have good jobs that make it possible to pay the taxes and your expenses. You are the financial center of the world/Europe.

So stop whining about how hard everything is and deal with it!

What a complete load of rubbish. I work with people from India,Canada and the USA and everyone has said they are delighted we are leaving the outdated club that is the EU. The US guys could not comprehend why we would be in such a strange arrangment in the first place. Can you imagine a third party making laws for the USA.

Time to move on..

[Baz]

Two very significant articles in the New York Times this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/opinion/englands-last-gasp-of-empire.html?emc=edit_ty_20160712&nl=opinion&nlid=51793659

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/opinion/brexit-and-irish-unity.html?emc=edit_ty_20160712&nl=opinion&nlid=51793659

The first link doesn't work for me, the second is as feared in Northern Ireland, the pushing by Sin Feinn & republicans to unite Ireland. I can't see that happening, but Its easy to forsee what instability in that area could cause.

[Al]

Here is your future.

And whether it is or not is entirely for the EU 27 to decide.

Dear Brits: This is what it’s like to be a non-EU citizen

By Nina Avramovic Trninic

In all the post-Brexit hysteria, we were interested in finding out what the “ordinary” British voters thought about leaving the European Union. And the media has hundreds of stories about the motivations of those who voted to stay and those who voted to leave.

But let me tell you a few things about the life of a non-EU citizen. When I came to Austria from Bosnia in 2003 to study at Technical University of Graz, I had to undergo various administrative and non-administrative checks. At one point, I and all my fellow Bosnian students had to show proof we didn’t have pneumonia, typhus – which I somewhat understand.

But we even had to prove we did not have RABIES. Rabies! In the 21st century!

My home country is only about 300 kilometers from Austria and yet we were treated as if we came from 200 years ago, at least. On top of that, we had – and still have – the pleasure of needing a visa every year and paying for it, of course. We even paid tuition for college, though the Austrians and EU students did not. But that was the deal, and I personally was happy to be able to work the lowest level student jobs and in return get a decent education.

The common attitude was “deal with it!” and so we did.

After college, I got my first job at a big construction company. The trick? I worked with a Bosnian contract. It was an all-in contract, written for slaves. But hey, I had a job. I was one of three people in my branch office who had a master’s degree in engineering (much less went to college), spoke three foreign languages, drove 50,000 kilometers per year, yet I was still paid less than everyone.

But I dealt with it.

If the company was to say at any moment I was fired, I had two months to leave the country or find a new company. Many highly qualified non-EU citizens live this kind of life day-to-day and the only thing on our minds is, “What the hell was on the UK’s mind when they voted LEAVE?”

The UK always was the “favorite (and the spoiled) kid of the EU family.” It kept its currency. It had more favorable EU conditions and it always behaved a bit stand-offish toward the rest of the Europe, if we are honest. The UK has about 52 million residents and pays about 5 billion euros to EU fund per year (96 euros per citizen).

By comparison, Austria has 8 million residents and pays about 1 billion euros per year to EU fund (125 euros per citizen). Cornwall for example voted LEAVE and yet they were to get financial help from the EU in the amount of 200 million euros per year until 2020. Funny thing is, they hope to keep the financial help, even when they exit from the EU!

My friend, who is also a non-EU citizen, is a business developer and marketer in our company. We have highly developed technology that – aside from Austria – only Switzerland and Germany produce. In today’s business world, where business is international, everything is happening faster and closer. Of course, our company – like our competitors – does business abroad.

In order just to visit the UK for conferences, meetings and business development, non-EU citizens – including my friend – have to pay approximately 199 euros for a 6-month UK visa, 499 euros for 2 years and 800 euros for 5 years. And they take your passport while they work on your visa, so forget about traveling for a couple of weeks at least. I can only imagine what the procedure is like for those who actually want to work in the UK.

But I guess once again we just deal with it, right?

Talking to various fellow Austrians, all of them said pretty much the same thing: It will be interesting to see how things go from here AND the world will continue spinning without the UK in EU.

All in all, the UK did the EU a favor, showing all the other 27 member countries that leaving the EU is not a dream. It is a nightmare. So in Austria, where Right Wing parties have supported the “leave EU campaign” for some time, the leave voices suddenly have become quiet.

In my opinion, the ones who are harmed – the ones who know best what benefits the EU brings – are the British expats. They lived the life abroad. They experienced more of Europe. Yet many of them did not have the right to vote at this referendum.

As much as I feel for them and that they are on the verge of losing their freedom, I cannot feel for the UK in general, given that thousands of Europeans, Asians, and Africans have lived this life for years and decades, and were happy to have the opportunity to live under normal circumstances.

The UK brought itself into this “lose-lose” situation.

And it has two options:

• The UK can proceed with the Brexit and experience the “luxurious” life of the non-EU citizen.

• Or the British can bite their tongues, say we are sorry and not proceed with leaving the EU. They turn from a spoiled, favorite child into a grown-up, responsible country and face the reality.

The reality is, you UK citizens have great lives. Your children are not drowning, fighting for their lives as they try to reach Europe. You are not bombed every day. You have good jobs that make it possible to pay the taxes and your expenses. You are the financial center of the world/Europe.

So stop whining about how hard everything is and deal with it!

You would do well to read the last line of that post philipl.

[JAL]

Were you on the sauce when you typed that John ?

Think we've both misunderstood each other yoda. Following Brexit, having nearly two million people unemployed in this country plus many of our youngsters learning garbage at 'uni'on the back of Britain not having the skills and knowledge required to build a nuclear reactor in this country then why do we jump into bed with the Americans to build our own defence units.

How Independent are we in Britain today ?

A massive £3 billion plus has gone straight out of our country into someone else's coffers.

[yoda]

You would do well to read the last line of that post philipl.

My advice to Philipl would be, don't show your new Chinese wife your ramblings on this MB, unless you want chinning by a woman again!

[yoda]

Think we've both misunderstood each other yoda. Following Brexit, having nearly two million people unemployed in this country plus many of our youngsters learning garbage at 'uni'on the back of Britain not having the skills and knowledge required to build a nuclear reactor in this country then why do we jump into bed with the Americans to build our own defence units.

How Independent are we in Britain today ?

A massive £3 billion plus has gone straight out of our country into someone else's coffers.

Employment is the highest it has ever been JAL, we do have the skils and knowledge JAL, we have sub contracted to the best price to quickly sometimes.

When we do join the Americans in projects it always results in work being taken out on a joint arrangement involving production and design.

Regarding youngsters learning garbage at Uni, I agree, more graduate apprenticeships needed like the ones at Jaguar Land Rover, get a degree while learning the hands on aspect of working.

We will become more independent in decision making for the country as we cut ties with the overbearing unelected commission in Brussels ruled by the unaccountable Sepp Juncker.

[JAL]

Employment is the highest it has ever been JAL, we do have the skils and knowledge JAL, we have sub contracted to the best price to quickly sometimes.

When we do join the Americans in projects it always results in work being taken out on a joint arrangement involving production and design.

Regarding youngsters learning garbage at Uni, I agree, more graduate apprenticeships needed like the ones at Jaguar Land Rover, get a degree while learning the hands on aspect of working.

We will become more independent in decision making for the country as we cut ties with the overbearing unelected commission in Brussels ruled by the unaccountable Sepp Juncker.

So we'vegone and jumped into bed with the Americans or should it be captured by America forever in their debt.

Several trillion in debt and rising its pish poor from our lot.

[Al]

So we'vegone and jumped into bed with the Americans or should it be captured by America forever in their debt.

Several trillion in debt and rising its pish poor from our lot.

Much rather be allied to America than to France, Germany, Poland etc. and most definitely Turkey.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Much rather be allied to America than to France, Germany, Poland etc. and most definitely Turkey.

Me too, a million times over. Starting to give up trying to emphasise the huge, colossal debt of gratitude us and America's other allies owe it over the last century. For all the conflicts its joined that it didn't have to (probably just the World Wars that I can think of), there's a thousand times more that its prevented from happening simply by being there and indicating a willingness to intervene to help its allies. Russia, China, North Korea, the more ambitious middle eastern countries, the threat from all to the UK and the rest of Europe would have been magnified 10-fold without the US. Not to mention the Pakistan-India rivalry would have likely been less restrained.

Personally I hate groundless America-bashing, its a recently developed fashion in this country that I have nothing but disgust for. I couldn't think of a better ally.

[yoda]

So we'vegone and jumped into bed with the Americans or should it be captured by America forever in their debt.

Several trillion in debt and rising its pish poor from our lot.

You never offer any solutions JAL

Here is what the CEO of Airbus has to say "We are committed to UK. Brexit won't affect our relationship".

Any one who knows anything about building aircraft knows that the production of the wings is the next single biggest ticket item on an aircraft after the engines,

both built in the UK

[JAL]

Much rather be allied to America than to France, Germany, Poland etc. and most definitely Turkey.

The original point was with all the unemployment and rising national debt why o why can we not build these military units ourselves.

[JAL]

You never offer any solutions JAL

Here is what the CEO of Airbus has to say "We are committed to UK. Brexit won't affect our relationship".

Any one who knows anything about building aircraft knows that the production of the wings is the next single biggest ticket item on an aircraft after the engines,

both built in the UK

Simply asked why we Britain isnt building the military units ourselves yoda ?

[Steve Moss]

The original point was with all the unemployment and rising national debt why o why can we not build these military units ourselves.

You probably could. But integrating commerce, including those massive sums spent on defense, is an aim of the globalists in both our governments. So I doubt there is much of a desire among both our leadership groups to build it ourselves.

I recall that 8 of the top 100 USA defense contractors are British firms. BAE Systems is one of the top 6. Rolls Royce is up there too.

So I very much approve of you doing it yourself. Keeping production local is good national defense policy so far as I'm concerned. Though I'm okay with good allies getting in on the action. But that cuts both ways.

In fairness though, I think the USA spends a lot in the UK and the UK spends a lot in the USA. Who gets the net benefit, I don't know.

[yoda]

Simply asked why we Britain isnt building the military units ourselves yoda ?

I can't see where you mentioned military units per se!

[Baz]

Is Tony Blair writing Theresa Mays speeches?

That was a distinct step to the centre from May.

[Norbert Rassragr]

All nice words for the 1st day at the office. She'll be making them the Nasty party like all the others.

By the way, this site is pretty good if you want to see how certain MPs have voted in the past. The domain name may be a bit.........optimistic in a few cases.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Is Tony Blair writing Theresa Mays speeches?

That was a distinct step to the centre from May.

Said in an earlier post that I don't really think party politics is relevant with 4 years to the next general election and everyone has a tendency to think it's House of Cards or something.

But, just to join in with that for a second, maybe May senses the opportunity to lure the right-wing of the Labour party given their alienation from Corbyn at the moment. It'd certainly drive more of a wedge in the party.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Good point. There is a serious case of the super Blairites being unhappy with someone who is a real leftie leading the party. They can't coast along and just agree with the Conservatives bashing students, the disabled, the unemployed and have to put up with a leader who is actually a strong socialist. They have to actually be some sort of Labour party.

Frankly, this country is ruined, it is dying and the Tory government of 2020 will continue to help their mates get rich and quietly take us back to the 18th Century, or an updated version where we all have to line up and the first 20 in the queue work with no job security, few rights and crap wages. The rest go to the workhouse for below minimum wage where some jumped up ---- can threaten, bully and abuse you because they have that little bit of power.

The process started under Blair, and it is continuing under the Tories who want to sell the country on the cheap so their mates from Eton and their paymasters in big business can get rich and pay no tax as all the money is in Panama.

[yoda]

Good point. There is a serious case of the super Blairites being unhappy with someone who is a real leftie leading the party. They can't coast along and just agree with the Conservatives bashing students, the disabled, the unemployed and have to put up with a leader who is actually a strong socialist. They have to actually be some sort of Labour party.

Frankly, this country is ruined, it is dying and the Tory government of 2020 will continue to help their mates get rich and quietly take us back to the 18th Century, or an updated version where we all have to line up and the first 20 in the queue work with no job security, few rights and crap wages. The rest go to the workhouse for below minimum wage where some jumped up ---- can threaten, bully and abuse you because they have that little bit of power.

The process started under Blair, and it is continuing under the Tories who want to sell the country on the cheap so their mates from Eton and their paymasters in big business can get rich and pay no tax as all the money is in Panama.

Hello Jim MK 3

[yoda]

Why can't we do it ourselveslves ?

There you go JAL

https://www.linkedin.com/groups/1783816/1783816-6157460662915182592

[Baz]

disgraced Fox back in Trade, boring Hammond as Chancellor.

Dickie Davis in charge of Brexit.

I thought May might have some fresh ideas.

Then again BoJo as Foreign Secretary.....bit like having Prince Phillip as race relations officer.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

disgraced Fox back in Trade, boring Hammond as Chancellor.

Dickie Davis in charge of Brexit.

I thought May might have some fresh ideas.

Then again BoJo as Foreign Secretary.....bit like having Prince Phillip as race relations officer.

So it's boring if she keeps it the same and rubbish if she's changes it. If you're trying for anything close to objectivity then it's failing miserably.

[Baz]

So it's boring if she keeps it the same and rubbish if she's changes it. If you're trying for anything close to objectivity then it's failing miserably.

Not 'trying' for anything to be honest. Surprised at some of the decisions, and slightly horrified by the BoJo role - I couldn't think of a worse fit for the role.

Thought she might bring in some young talent to match her earlier speech, instead she appears to have gone for the same old faces, in different positions.

As with all things, I guess we'll see what happens, its not like Labour are in a position to challenge is it.