[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[Norbert Rassragr]

Unipart/Teleplan only fix broken boxes on behalf of Sky so have nothing to do with how much you pay. Unipart are UK based (they have 3 or 4 sites in Coventry), and where I work and we were below the target cost per box. Even so, like Peugeot (the Coventry factory was more efficient than the French sites) and Cadbury they've shut up shop and gone to Poland or wherever.

In short, Britain has been shafted by the free movement of people, money and goods as multinational companies have the freedom to take the money, close down businesses for little reason and run.

[Paul]

I know that is the case Paul which is why so many from the Indian Peninsula have British passports. I was giving my opinion as to how it should be not how it is.

Do you have to go into so much trouble to try to knock so many of my posts Paul. I'm sick of arguing with you.

Cheap SKY deals. If you can find me one I'd be grateful. My SKY deal is anything but cheap.

I didn't have to go to any trouble Al I just googled it - took 30 seconds. I'm not knocking what you said but pointing out Commonwealth citizens have the right to enter the UK. People are suggesting the Commonwealth would be a good market for Britain but also arguing against immigration and I think it's interesting to consider both.

i I wanted to knock your post I would have said something very different.

[yoda]

I didn't have to go to any trouble Al I just googled it - took 30 seconds. I'm not knocking what you said but pointing out Commonwealth citizens have the right to enter the UK. People are suggesting the Commonwealth would be a good market for Britain but also arguing against immigration and I think it's interesting to consider both.

i I wanted to knock your post I would have said something very different.

Did you read the article fully Paul, most of the commonwealth citizens are subject to visa applications of some sort

[Paul]

It also means the bloc travels at a speed to cater for all in it, that explains why it is taking so long to negotiate the TTIP deal (in secret by the way) all 28 countries needs to be taken into account!.

Some details have been leaked about the trade deal which dilute workers rights, hence the demonstration in Germany. (Obama is part of the Bilderberg clique)

I would say negotiating a trade deal for one country is far easier, simpler and quicker than for 28 at a time.

Don't know if you have seen the Obama at the Lindley Hall program, it shows a president out of touch.

Good link for the commonwealth you posted, just shows what is out there

The TTIP deal can take as long as the EU wishes for me! From what I've read this could be very bad news for some of key services, such as the NHS, and the UK workforce in general.

I haven't read what Obama said or watched the Lindley Hall programme. What I have gleaned has been snippets from the Today programme. One point I thought interesting; Obama cites the thousands of American war dead as why America has such a deep interest in a united Europe, some on the out side of the debate basically say British troops didn't die in WW2 to allow just anyone to enter the UK.

For me the allies fought to free Europe and the freedoms we enjoy today. The EU to an extent stems from that sacrifice so that the wider Europe can enjoy those freedoms as well.

Did you read the article fully Paul, most of the commonwealth citizens are subject to visa applications of some sort

Yes, I know.

[yoda]

The TTIP deal can take as long as the EU wishes for me! From what I've read this could be very bad news for some of key services, such as the NHS, and the UK workforce in general.

I haven't read what Obama said or watched the Lindley Hall programme. What I have gleaned has been snippets from the Today programme. One point I thought interesting; Obama cites the thousands of American war dead as why America has such a deep interest in a united Europe, some on the out side of the debate basically say British troops didn't die in WW2 to allow just anyone to enter the UK.

For me the allies fought to free Europe and the freedoms we enjoy today. The EU to an extent stems from that sacrifice so that the wider Europe can enjoy those freedoms as well.

Yes, I know.

Its not free now though is it,

If we stay we will be over a barrel and loose our sovereignty.

Obama and any other USA President would never do that.

Europe should be a free trading bloc not a political bloc, you will never get 28 different countries to agree enough of the time for it to be effective.

[yoda]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/646917/David-Cameron-business-leader-stay-EU-grants-Brussels-millions-Vote-Leave

Says it all really

[JAL]

There should be more information on the TTIP deal before this referendum.

How potentially a corporation oversess one at that could sue a future British government with this TTIP deal in place can't be right no wonder the Americans are throwing their weight around during this EU debate.

[yoda]

There should be more information on the TTIP deal before this referendum.

How potentially a corporation oversess one at that could sue a future British government with this TTIP deal in place can't be right no wonder the Americans are throwing their weight around during this EU debate.

Your'e getting there JAL.

Read up on the Bilderbergs

[Paul]

Its not free now though is it,

.

In my life time I've never been prevented from doing anything legal anywhere or anytime I wish - other than going to Turf Moor!! 😀

I don't live under a police state, political dictator, I'm free to travel, enjoy one of the highest standards of living any generation has seen (speaking generally not personally), have never experienced war and potentially have a very long life ahead of me compared to decades gone by. That's freedom.

I live in a free Europe and I'm happy to do so and contribute to it in some small way.

[Paul]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/646917/David-Cameron-business-leader-stay-EU-grants-Brussels-millions-Vote-Leave

Says it all really

That's a touch selective. It wouldn't take much research to identify companies who employ parliamentary lobbyists to lobby whichever UK party is in power at the time. It's an industry in itself. The tobacco, food and alcohol industries are especially active in this. It's how things work across the world and not limited to Brussels and the EU.

As for grants received well yes of course they'll be in favour of EU membership if they benefit from it. Hardly rocket science. One of the most interesting remarks I've heard on this came from the Siemens UK CEO. His view was two years of uncertainty while the UK negotiates out could have a knock on effect for 5-10 years. His company would delay investment and R&D decisions in the UK until the exit strategy was confirmed meaning development and job opportunities with Siemens would be impacted 5 or more years hence.

[yoda]

That's a touch selective. It wouldn't take much research to identify companies who employ parliamentary lobbyists to lobby whichever UK party is in power at the time. It's an industry in itself. The tobacco, food and alcohol industries are especially active in this. It's how things work across the world and not limited to Brussels and the EU.

As for grants received well yes of course they'll be in favour of EU membership if they benefit from it. Hardly rocket science. One of the most interesting remarks I've heard on this came from the Siemens UK CEO. His view was two years of uncertainty while the UK negotiates out could have a knock on effect for 5-10 years. His company would delay investment and R&D decisions in the UK until the exit strategy was confirmed meaning development and job opportunities with Siemens would be impacted 5 or more years hence.

Yes Paul, everytime someone makes a post like this they always say "could"

If we stay in the current EU we "will" loose our sovereinty

[jim mk2]

Yes Paul, everytime someone makes a post like this they always say "could"

If we stay in the current EU we "will" loose our sovereinty

Why ?

[yoda]

Why ?

Because it is enshrined in the treaties of Rome and Mastrict

[Paul]

Yes Paul, everytime someone makes a post like this they always say "could"

If we stay in the current EU we "will" loose our sovereinty

We will not lose sovereignty we will, and have already, agree to laws common to the 28 EU states. I'm not 100% on this aspect of how the EU works. You have argued there are long delays in trade deals while waiting for 28 countries to reach an agreement, you may even have said its not workable - I'm unsure if the last part is accurate.

If we are going to accept your argument that this hinders trade deals surely we have to accept before new EU laws are enacted all 28 must agree? Giving the UK every opportunity to argue its case.

The out campaign seem to be getting very picky re individual words. I can't be sure if the Siemens CEO said "will" or "could" the point is he clearly stated his company would delay investment decisions for two years. There can be little room for doubt if a company delays investment for that period it will impact prospects.

Another great example is "queue" which is now being used to confirm a Cameron/Obama conspiracy. When I go to the States I'd be quite likely to use line, trunk, hood, garbage, sidewalk instead of queue, boot, bonnet, rubbish, pavement. It's just about communication

If all the out campaign have left is picking up individual words we won't be leaving the EU!

[yoda]

We will not lose sovereignty we will, and have already, agree to laws common to the 28 EU states. I'm not 100% on this aspect of how the EU works. You have argued there are long delays in trade deals while waiting for 28 countries to reach an agreement, you may even have said its not workable - I'm unsure if the last part is accurate.

If we are going to accept your argument that this hinders trade deals surely we have to accept before new EU laws are enacted all 28 must agree? Giving the UK every opportunity to argue its case.

The out campaign seem to be getting very picky re individual words. I can't be sure if the Siemens CEO said "will" or "could" the point is he clearly stated his company would delay investment decisions for two years. There can be little room for doubt if a company delays investment for that period it will impact prospects.

Another great example is "queue" which is now being used to confirm a Cameron/Obama conspiracy. When I go to the States I'd be quite likely to use line, trunk, hood, garbage, sidewalk instead of queue, boot, bonnet, rubbish, pavement. It's just about communication

If all the out campaign have left is picking up individual words we won't be leaving the EU!

How many trade deals have we had with the good old USA while in the EU?

How many trade deals did we have with the rest of the world before we joined the EU?

All this talk about trade and jobs is a smoke screen for globalisation with the very rich in control.

Surprised Jim has not seen this coming.

[JAL]

How many trade deals have we had with the good old USA while in the EU?

How many trade deals

All this talk about trade and jobs is a smoke screen for globalisation with the very rich in control.

.

It would appear that way yoda and my question to the supporters of Labour Conservative and Lib Dems is why did you allow your parties to grow the national debt to the point that its now enslaving our children and their children for many a year to come.

[Paul]

How many trade deals have we had with the good old USA while in the EU?

How many trade deals did we have with the rest of the world before we joined the EU?

All this talk about trade and jobs is a smoke screen for globalisation with the very rich in control.

Surprised Jim has not seen this coming.

I don't know the answer to those questions but the inference and tone behind them suggests you do. Please can you enlighten us.

I know you're very anti Bilderberg (sp?) and have just complained re the very rich being in control. Why then is it you seem to have a real issue with politics which looks for a more equitable division of wealth?

[yoda]

I don't know the answer to those questions but the inference and tone behind them suggests you do. Please can you enlighten us.

I know you're very anti Bilderberg (sp?) and have just complained re the very rich being in control. Why then is it you seem to have a real issue with politics which looks for a more equitable division of wealth?

In bold, what makes you draw that conclusion ?

The answers to the 2 questions are

None

and

Hundreds

[jim mk2]

Because it is enshrined in the treaties of Rome and Mastrict

As long as you can control a decision then you are sovereign. So in this case, if we opted to leave the EU that would be a "sovereign" decision. On the other hand should we wish to re-join the EU we would not be able to do so on our own; all of the current 27 EU nations would need to agree to our re-joining, so we would not be "sovereign" over that decision. We could decide we wanted to re-join, but be told no, but we can decide to leave and no one (outside the UK) can prevent that. We have sovereignty.

How many trade deals have we had with the good old USA while in the EU?

How many trade deals did we have with the rest of the world before we joined the EU?

All this talk about trade and jobs is a smoke screen for globalisation with the very rich in control.

Very odd post from you considering your poiltical leanings.

[yoda]

As long as you can control a decision then you are sovereign. So in this case, if we opted to leave the EU that would be a "sovereign" decision. On the other hand should we wish to re-join the EU we would not be able to do so on our own; all of the current 27 EU nations would need to agree to our re-joining, so we would not be "sovereign" over that decision. We could decide we wanted to re-join, but be told no, but we can decide to leave and no one (outside the UK) can prevent that. We have sovereignty.

Very odd post from you considering your poiltical leanings.

Which are Jim? and how did you come to that conclusion, same again to Paul who seems to struggling to answer!

ps not sure if I have or ever had poilitical leanings

Re sovereignty, try changing the UK VAT rate without approval from Brussels

[jim mk2]

Which are Jim? and how did you come to that conclusion, same again to Paul who seems to struggling to answer!

ps not sure if I have or ever had poilitical leanings

Re sovereignty, try changing the UK VAT rate without approval from Brussels

Please don't be obtuse. Your statement about the rich is quite clear as are your past political arguments.

You've also ignored the key argument about sovereignty

[yoda]

Please don't be obtuse. Your statement about the rich is quite clear as are your past political arguments.

You've also ignored the key argument about sovereignty

No I have not, if we stay in the EU it is enshrined that we accept political union, which means being governed from Brussels.

Now back to your assumptions on my political leanings, please clarify how you got to the conclusion

[jim mk2]

No I have not, if we stay in the EU it is enshrined that we accept political union, which means being governed from Brussels.

Now back to your assumptions on my political leanings, please clarify how you got to the conclusion

1. As long as you can control a decision then you are sovereign. So in this case, if we opted to leave the EU that would be a "sovereign" decision. On the other hand should we wish to re-join the EU we would not be able to do so on our own; all of the current 27 EU nations would need to agree to our re-joining, so we would not be "sovereign" over that decision. We could decide we wanted to re-join, but be told no, but we can decide to leave and no one (outside the UK) can prevent that. We have sovereignty.

2. No assumptions. Your every statement makes it crystal clear.

[yoda]

1. As long as you can control a decision then you are sovereign. So in this case, if we opted to leave the EU that would be a "sovereign" decision. On the other hand should we wish to re-join the EU we would not be able to do so on our own; all of the current 27 EU nations would need to agree to our re-joining, so we would not be "sovereign" over that decision. We could decide we wanted to re-join, but be told no, but we can decide to leave and no one (outside the UK) can prevent that. We have sovereignty.

2. No assumptions. Your every statement makes it crystal clear.

1 Stop going round in circles JIm, if we stay we will loose our sovereignty, it is enshrined in the treaties.

2 Evidence please

[jim mk2]

1 Stop going round in circles JIm, if we stay we will loose our sovereignty, it is enshrined in the treaties.

2 Evidence please

1. As long as you can control a decision then you are sovereign. So in this case, if we opted to leave the EU that would be a "sovereign" decision. On the other hand should we wish to re-join the EU we would not be able to do so on our own; all of the current 27 EU nations would need to agree to our re-joining, so we would not be "sovereign" over that decision. We could decide we wanted to re-join, but be told no, but we can decide to leave and no one (outside the UK) can prevent that. We have sovereignty.

2. Your every statement makes it crystal clear.