jim mk2 Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 I said you were being thickl for saying the EU has divided the country but the referendum has not and your general lack of understanding of the issues. You're making it up again. And where are the polls?
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yoda Posted July 24, 2016 Author Posted July 24, 2016 I said you were being thickl for saying the EU has divided the country but the referendum has not and your general lack of understanding of the issues. You're making it up again. And where are the polls? Here you go http://theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-british-views-on-in-or-out-of-europe-61250 You see Jim I am not making it up, so I think you should take back that thick comment and when you have a moment try to explain the 50% out vote. It would seem the change in attitude for the EU came about during the Blair years!
den Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 It's amusing to see the losers in the remain camp clutching at straws to try to prove that they were right My view Al, was and is exactly the same as 49% of the voters views. Hardly isolated am I? It's also amusing, if strange, to see Jim and philipl, who are at opposite ends of the political spectrum in the same camp. If you ad Den they are certainly a strange bunch of bedfellows. I don't fall in with bedfellows either Al. I held and still hold the view, that leaving the EU was a risky, insular and backwards move. Just as half the country do. It's not just me, Philip and Jim holding these views, but you know that really.
Steve Moss Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 FFS, I said before that the referendum has divided the country but it is the issue of Europe that has always divided the Tories. I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse here as usual or are genuinely thick. This is strange. The referendum allowed people to express opinions that existed pre-referendum. So it divided nothing, but only illuminated differences which already existed. Ditto with Scotland vs. UK and, I presume, north vs. south. Ignoring the problems (i.e. no referendum) solves nothing. Acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the valid concerns of all view points (even the viewpoints you don't agree with), and working together to resolve them, will result in a constructive resolution. Fear mongering and insults will only harden each side's resolve. I think the EU as currently constituted is a losing bet. Too many disparate interests, too many takers and not enough givers. It would have a better chance of success if it's focus were narrowed. All in my opinion only, of course.
Stuart Posted July 24, 2016 Posted July 24, 2016 This is strange. The referendum allowed people to express opinions that existed pre-referendum. So it divided nothing, but only illuminated differences which already existed. Ditto with Scotland vs. UK and, I presume, north vs. south. Ignoring the problems (i.e. no referendum) solves nothing. Acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the valid concerns of all view points (even the viewpoints you don't agree with), and working together to resolve them, will result in a constructive resolution. Fear mongering and insults will only harden each side's resolve. I think the EU as currently constituted is a losing bet. Too many disparate interests, too many takers and not enough givers. It would have a better chance of success if it's focus were narrowed. All in my opinion only, of course. Great post! Spoken like a true democrat.
Al Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 My view Al, was and is exactly the same as 49% of the voters views. Hardly isolated am I? I don't fall in with bedfellows either Al. I held and still hold the view, that leaving the EU was a risky, insular and backwards move. Just as half the country do. It's not just me, Philip and Jim holding these views, but you know that really. I'm talking about on this forum Den, but you know that really.
philipl Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 This is strange. The referendum allowed people to express opinions that existed pre-referendum. So it divided nothing, but only illuminated differences which already existed. Ditto with Scotland vs. UK and, I presume, north vs. south. Ignoring the problems (i.e. no referendum) solves nothing. Acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the valid concerns of all view points (even the viewpoints you don't agree with), and working together to resolve them, will result in a constructive resolution. Fear mongering and insults will only harden each side's resolve. I think the EU as currently constituted is a losing bet. Too many disparate interests, too many takers and not enough givers. It would have a better chance of success if it's focus were narrowed. All in my opinion only, of course. What is your opinion about Texas leaving the USA?
philipl Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 Philip Hammond seems to have a differing view to you Philipl on trade deals while still a member of the EU http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573 The problem with all this is the little Englander- centric blinkers on approach. You read "UK explores multi-billion pound free trade .... with China" and I read the word "deal". A deal is between two parties. Because Britain wants a deal it doesn't mean the other side wants a deal or wants one on the terms Britain wants. For China, the EU without Britain is at least seven times more important than Britain is on its own. The EU rules are explicit- no trade deals until Britain is outside of the EU which is at least 30 months away. So China and any other country will want something on the table from the UK as a pre-condition for even talking. Undoubtedly, visa-free access for 1.3 billion Chinese would be an attractive starter offer to get the Chinese Government talking.
Al Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 The problem with all this is the little Englander- centric blinkers on approach. You read "UK explores multi-billion pound free trade .... with China" and I read the word "deal". A deal is between two parties. Because Britain wants a deal it doesn't mean the other side wants a deal or wants one on the terms Britain wants. For China, the EU without Britain is at least seven times more important than Britain is on its own. The EU rules are explicit- no trade deals until Britain is outside of the EU which is at least 30 months away. So China and any other country will want something on the table from the UK as a pre-condition for even talking. Undoubtedly, visa-free access for 1.3 billion Chinese would be an attractive starter offer to get the Chinese Government talking. I prefer Chinese restaurants to Indian so a few more Chinese are OK by me. Never seen a Chinese terrorist in the UK.
yoda Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 The problem with all this is the little Englander- centric blinkers on approach. You read "UK explores multi-billion pound free trade .... with China" and I read the word "deal". A deal is between two parties. Because Britain wants a deal it doesn't mean the other side wants a deal or wants one on the terms Britain wants. For China, the EU without Britain is at least seven times more important than Britain is on its own. The EU rules are explicit- no trade deals until Britain is outside of the EU which is at least 30 months away. So China and any other country will want something on the table from the UK as a pre-condition for even talking. Undoubtedly, visa-free access for 1.3 billion Chinese would be an attractive starter offer to get the Chinese Government talking. Don't you dare call me a little Englander, I think global i.e. BIG Does the USA have visa free travel with China to go along with their trade deal, NO Talk about being blinkered and narrow thinking, you are a perfect example. Just like your mentality towards University education. It's about time the whole University funding system was investigated. Students leaving Uni with an average £44k debt, only 50% getting work relative to their degrees, many with bad credit limitations for the rest of their lives. I would say it is as big, if not bigger, than the PPI scandal. Something which you are directly involved in. I prefer Chinese restaurants to Indian so a few more Chinese are OK by me. Never seen a Chinese terrorist in the UK. You never will, number one religion for the Chinese is to make money. Which is why I am extremely fortunate to be married to one
yoda Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/13bd507b-a8b5-4ea0-b882-ba4f12d0972f-original.png Not all doom and gloom in the world
Steve Moss Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 What is your opinion about Texas leaving the USA? I sympathize. The federal government was supposed to focus on trade and national defense, while the states where to be the day to day governing body. It has morphed into something entirely different and that trend is continuing. But it won't happen. There are safety valves built into the Constitution. And immigrants are Democrats the first or second generation and steadily become more conservative as time moves on. So I think the USA will adjust course over the next several years. I also think that Trump will win big, but we'll see.
gumboots Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 Now that prospect really scares me. What do Americans see in this guy that the rest of the world doesn't? Or does Trump have supporters on here too?
yoda Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 Now that prospect really scares me. What do Americans see in this guy that the rest of the world doesn't? Or does Trump have supporters on here too? I would worry more who replaces Merkel, can't be long now
gumboots Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 Wasn't that Scottish guy supposed to be the next bundeskanzler?
yoda Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 Wasn't that Scottish guy supposed to be the next bundeskanzler? The way the right is rising in Germany they could get a Sturmführer
Steve Kean's Hypnotoad Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 Now that prospect really scares me. What do Americans see in this guy that the rest of the world doesn't? Or does Trump have supporters on here too? It really scares me that that's what really scares you when we've got a death cult ordering it's followers in this country and in Europe to murder as many infidel civilians as possible. An attempt was made by an armed gang to snatch one of our troops off our own army base and Trump is what worries you?? Wouldn't necessarily say I'm a supporter of Trump, I don't know much about him, but I'm certainly able to put him in perspective. He's an authoritarian isolationist who's angry at the traditional western values of his country being eroded away. The people I'm worried about in the world are brainwashed religious psychotics who would enthusiastically butcher me for any of about 20 aspects of my life that they say I'm not allowed to do.
gumboots Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 I feel that Trump winning the presidential election would exacerbate the problems we are having at the moment, hence why it scares me so much. I do not see the world being a more secure and peaceful place if he wins. I'm no fan of Clinton either before you ask. I cannot believe that of all the people there are to choose from in America those 2 are the candidates the Americans have got. Democracy in action you'll say, no doubt, but there are times when you wonder how good an idea it is. But then you look at the alternatives......
philipl Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsche-bank-briefing-where-banks-post-brexit-2016-7 The Banks prepare to Brexit. Might not matter that much in Blackburn apart from them paying over 5% of the country's total tax take.
yoda Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsche-bank-briefing-where-banks-post-brexit-2016-7 The Banks prepare to Brexit. Might not matter that much in Blackburn apart from them paying over 5% of the country's total tax take.
Steve Kean's Hypnotoad Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892393 Erdogan kicking off about Europe not being sincere over Turkey's EU fast tracking. Yet again exactly what a bunch of us said would happen whilst Jim posted links to hippy websites saying it was all right-wing baloney. Erdogan will get his way or cancel the deal, and the Agean floodgates will swing back open for the next wave of lovely migrants. It's simply a matter of time.
den Posted July 26, 2016 Posted July 26, 2016 Sturgeon on how it feels to be a remainer. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/10-times-nicola-sturgeon-nailed-what-its-be-remain-voter-post-brexit
chor808 Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Back tracking from GSK. GlaxoSmithKline is to invest £275m to expand its UK manufacturing sites, saying the country remains "an attractive location" despite Brexit. The pharmaceutical firm, whose chief executive Andrew Witty backed the Remain campaign, said the UK's skilled workforce and competitive tax system helped drive the decision. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027
Al Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Sturgeon on how it feels to be a remainer. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/10-times-nicola-sturgeon-nailed-what-its-be-remain-voter-post-brexit If that woman is the talisman I feel sorry for the remainers.
Al Posted July 27, 2016 Posted July 27, 2016 Back tracking from GSK. GlaxoSmithKline is to invest £275m to expand its UK manufacturing sites, saying the country remains "an attractive location" despite Brexit. The pharmaceutical firm, whose chief executive Andrew Witty backed the Remain campaign, said the UK's skilled workforce and competitive tax system helped drive the decision. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027 And left wingers want to tax businesses more. It would be counter productive.
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