[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[jim mk2]

I said you were being thickl for saying the EU has divided the country but the referendum has not and your general lack of understanding of the issues.

You're making it up again.

And where are the polls?

[yoda]

  On 24/07/2016 at 18:43, jim mk2 said:

I said you were being thickl for saying the EU has divided the country but the referendum has not and your general lack of understanding of the issues.

You're making it up again.

And where are the polls?

Here you go

http://theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-british-views-on-in-or-out-of-europe-61250

You see Jim I am not making it up, so I think you should take back that thick comment and when you have a moment try to explain the 50% out vote.

It would seem the change in attitude for the EU came about during the Blair years!

[den]

  On 24/07/2016 at 13:33, Al said:

It's amusing to see the losers in the remain camp clutching at straws to try to prove that they were right

My view Al, was and is exactly the same as 49% of the voters views. Hardly isolated am I?

  On 24/07/2016 at 13:33, Al said:

It's also amusing, if strange, to see Jim and philipl, who are at opposite ends of the political spectrum in the same camp. If you ad Den they are certainly a strange bunch of bedfellows.

I don't fall in with bedfellows either Al. I held and still hold the view, that leaving the EU was a risky, insular and backwards move. Just as half the country do. It's not just me, Philip and Jim holding these views, but you know that really.

[Steve Moss]

  On 24/07/2016 at 17:41, jim mk2 said:

FFS, I said before that the referendum has divided the country but it is the issue of Europe that has always divided the Tories.

I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse here as usual or are genuinely thick.

This is strange. The referendum allowed people to express opinions that existed pre-referendum. So it divided nothing, but only illuminated differences which already existed.

Ditto with Scotland vs. UK and, I presume, north vs. south.

Ignoring the problems (i.e. no referendum) solves nothing. Acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the valid concerns of all view points (even the viewpoints you don't agree with), and working together to resolve them, will result in a constructive resolution. Fear mongering and insults will only harden each side's resolve.

I think the EU as currently constituted is a losing bet. Too many disparate interests, too many takers and not enough givers. It would have a better chance of success if it's focus were narrowed. All in my opinion only, of course.

[Stuart]

  On 24/07/2016 at 20:58, Steve Moss said:

This is strange. The referendum allowed people to express opinions that existed pre-referendum. So it divided nothing, but only illuminated differences which already existed.

Ditto with Scotland vs. UK and, I presume, north vs. south.

Ignoring the problems (i.e. no referendum) solves nothing. Acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the valid concerns of all view points (even the viewpoints you don't agree with), and working together to resolve them, will result in a constructive resolution. Fear mongering and insults will only harden each side's resolve.

I think the EU as currently constituted is a losing bet. Too many disparate interests, too many takers and not enough givers. It would have a better chance of success if it's focus were narrowed. All in my opinion only, of course.

Great post! Spoken like a true democrat.

[Al]

  On 24/07/2016 at 20:25, den said:

My view Al, was and is exactly the same as 49% of the voters views. Hardly isolated am I?

I don't fall in with bedfellows either Al. I held and still hold the view, that leaving the EU was a risky, insular and backwards move. Just as half the country do. It's not just me, Philip and Jim holding these views, but you know that really.

I'm talking about on this forum Den, but you know that really.

[philipl]

  On 24/07/2016 at 20:58, Steve Moss said:

This is strange. The referendum allowed people to express opinions that existed pre-referendum. So it divided nothing, but only illuminated differences which already existed.

Ditto with Scotland vs. UK and, I presume, north vs. south.

Ignoring the problems (i.e. no referendum) solves nothing. Acknowledging the problem, acknowledging the valid concerns of all view points (even the viewpoints you don't agree with), and working together to resolve them, will result in a constructive resolution. Fear mongering and insults will only harden each side's resolve.

I think the EU as currently constituted is a losing bet. Too many disparate interests, too many takers and not enough givers. It would have a better chance of success if it's focus were narrowed. All in my opinion only, of course.

What is your opinion about Texas leaving the USA?

[philipl]

  On 24/07/2016 at 17:56, yoda said:

Philip Hammond seems to have a differing view to you Philipl on trade deals while still a member of the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573

The problem with all this is the little Englander- centric blinkers on approach.

You read "UK explores multi-billion pound free trade .... with China" and I read the word "deal".

A deal is between two parties.

Because Britain wants a deal it doesn't mean the other side wants a deal or wants one on the terms Britain wants.

For China, the EU without Britain is at least seven times more important than Britain is on its own. The EU rules are explicit- no trade deals until Britain is outside of the EU which is at least 30 months away. So China and any other country will want something on the table from the UK as a pre-condition for even talking.

Undoubtedly, visa-free access for 1.3 billion Chinese would be an attractive starter offer to get the Chinese Government talking.

[Al]

  On 25/07/2016 at 10:50, philipl said:

The problem with all this is the little Englander- centric blinkers on approach.

You read "UK explores multi-billion pound free trade .... with China" and I read the word "deal".

A deal is between two parties.

Because Britain wants a deal it doesn't mean the other side wants a deal or wants one on the terms Britain wants.

For China, the EU without Britain is at least seven times more important than Britain is on its own. The EU rules are explicit- no trade deals until Britain is outside of the EU which is at least 30 months away. So China and any other country will want something on the table from the UK as a pre-condition for even talking.

Undoubtedly, visa-free access for 1.3 billion Chinese would be an attractive starter offer to get the Chinese Government talking.

I prefer Chinese restaurants to Indian so a few more Chinese are OK by me. Never seen a Chinese terrorist in the UK.

[yoda]

  On 25/07/2016 at 10:50, philipl said:

The problem with all this is the little Englander- centric blinkers on approach.

You read "UK explores multi-billion pound free trade .... with China" and I read the word "deal".

A deal is between two parties.

Because Britain wants a deal it doesn't mean the other side wants a deal or wants one on the terms Britain wants.

For China, the EU without Britain is at least seven times more important than Britain is on its own. The EU rules are explicit- no trade deals until Britain is outside of the EU which is at least 30 months away. So China and any other country will want something on the table from the UK as a pre-condition for even talking.

Undoubtedly, visa-free access for 1.3 billion Chinese would be an attractive starter offer to get the Chinese Government talking.

Don't you dare call me a little Englander, I think global i.e.

BIG

Does the USA have visa free travel with China to go along with their trade deal, NO

Talk about being blinkered and narrow thinking, you are a perfect example.

Just like your mentality towards University education. It's about time the whole University funding system was investigated.

Students leaving Uni with an average £44k debt, only 50% getting work relative to their degrees, many with bad credit limitations for the rest of their lives.

I would say it is as big, if not bigger, than the PPI scandal.

Something which you are directly involved in.

  On 25/07/2016 at 11:10, Al said:

I prefer Chinese restaurants to Indian so a few more Chinese are OK by me. Never seen a Chinese terrorist in the UK.

You never will, number one religion for the Chinese is to make money.

Which is why I am extremely fortunate to be married to one

[yoda]

https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/13bd507b-a8b5-4ea0-b882-ba4f12d0972f-original.png

Not all doom and gloom in the world

[Steve Moss]

  On 25/07/2016 at 10:06, philipl said:

What is your opinion about Texas leaving the USA?

I sympathize.

The federal government was supposed to focus on trade and national defense, while the states where to be the day to day governing body. It has morphed into something entirely different and that trend is continuing.

But it won't happen. There are safety valves built into the Constitution. And immigrants are Democrats the first or second generation and steadily become more conservative as time moves on. So I think the USA will adjust course over the next several years.

I also think that Trump will win big, but we'll see.

[gumboots]

Now that prospect really scares me. What do Americans see in this guy that the rest of the world doesn't? Or does Trump have supporters on here too?

[yoda]

  On 25/07/2016 at 15:50, gumboots said:

Now that prospect really scares me. What do Americans see in this guy that the rest of the world doesn't? Or does Trump have supporters on here too?

I would worry more who replaces Merkel, can't be long now

[gumboots]

Wasn't that Scottish guy supposed to be the next bundeskanzler?

[yoda]

  On 25/07/2016 at 16:29, gumboots said:

Wasn't that Scottish guy supposed to be the next bundeskanzler?

The way the right is rising in Germany they could get a Sturmführer

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

  On 25/07/2016 at 15:50, gumboots said:

Now that prospect really scares me. What do Americans see in this guy that the rest of the world doesn't? Or does Trump have supporters on here too?

It really scares me that that's what really scares you when we've got a death cult ordering it's followers in this country and in Europe to murder as many infidel civilians as possible.

An attempt was made by an armed gang to snatch one of our troops off our own army base and Trump is what worries you??

Wouldn't necessarily say I'm a supporter of Trump, I don't know much about him, but I'm certainly able to put him in perspective. He's an authoritarian isolationist who's angry at the traditional western values of his country being eroded away. The people I'm worried about in the world are brainwashed religious psychotics who would enthusiastically butcher me for any of about 20 aspects of my life that they say I'm not allowed to do.

[gumboots]

I feel that Trump winning the presidential election would exacerbate the problems we are having at the moment, hence why it scares me so much. I do not see the world being a more secure and peaceful place if he wins. I'm no fan of Clinton either before you ask. I cannot believe that of all the people there are to choose from in America those 2 are the candidates the Americans have got. Democracy in action you'll say, no doubt, but there are times when you wonder how good an idea it is. But then you look at the alternatives......

[philipl]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsche-bank-briefing-where-banks-post-brexit-2016-7

The Banks prepare to Brexit.

Might not matter that much in Blackburn apart from them paying over 5% of the country's total tax take.

[yoda]

  On 25/07/2016 at 20:49, philipl said:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/confidential-deutsche-bank-briefing-where-banks-post-brexit-2016-7

The Banks prepare to Brexit.

Might not matter that much in Blackburn apart from them paying over 5% of the country's total tax take.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892393

Erdogan kicking off about Europe not being sincere over Turkey's EU fast tracking.

Yet again exactly what a bunch of us said would happen whilst Jim posted links to hippy websites saying it was all right-wing baloney.

Erdogan will get his way or cancel the deal, and the Agean floodgates will swing back open for the next wave of lovely migrants. It's simply a matter of time.

[den]

Sturgeon on how it feels to be a remainer.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/10-times-nicola-sturgeon-nailed-what-its-be-remain-voter-post-brexit

[chor808]

Back tracking from GSK.

GlaxoSmithKline is to invest £275m to expand its UK manufacturing sites, saying the country remains "an attractive location" despite Brexit.

The pharmaceutical firm, whose chief executive Andrew Witty backed the Remain campaign, said the UK's skilled workforce and competitive tax system helped drive the decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027

[Al]

  On 26/07/2016 at 20:16, den said:

Sturgeon on how it feels to be a remainer.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/10-times-nicola-sturgeon-nailed-what-its-be-remain-voter-post-brexit

If that woman is the talisman I feel sorry for the remainers.

[Al]

  On 27/07/2016 at 08:24, chor808 said:

Back tracking from GSK.

GlaxoSmithKline is to invest £275m to expand its UK manufacturing sites, saying the country remains "an attractive location" despite Brexit.

The pharmaceutical firm, whose chief executive Andrew Witty backed the Remain campaign, said the UK's skilled workforce and competitive tax system helped drive the decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027

And left wingers want to tax businesses more. It would be counter productive.