[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[JBiz]

I was pointing out the difference in approach of the French compared to the UK and putting forward a possible reason for why there is a big queue at Calias of immigrants that did not claim asylum in the EU country of landing but want to get to the UK.

Did I say problem anywhere in the post ?

You mentioned the difficulty about trying to get a minaret up in France, I'm asking you what's the difficulty, the problem etc

[philipl]

http://http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21702791-britain-unusually-open-trade-unusually-bad-mitigating-its-impact-collateral-damage

Economist article on Blackburn.

Blackburn's woes are all to do with rubbish British Governments and not the EU.

[Baz]

Area of France 643,801 km²

Area of UK 243,610 km²

The populations of both countries is roughly equal, there is a narrow gap in immigration, and France is a far more rural/ agricultural economy than the UK.

France is more tradionally reticent to change, and is proud of its architecture/ culture / countryside - whereas especially in the northern parts of the UK we aren't. Would the monstrous bus station in Preston be built in France or Sussex?

[yoda]

http://http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21702791-britain-unusually-open-trade-unusually-bad-mitigating-its-impact-collateral-damage

Economist article on Blackburn.

Blackburn's woes are all to do with rubbish British Governments and not the EU.

Actually if you read it, it confirms that the elites (i.e. the Bilderbergs and theun elected Brussels elite) have benefited from Globalisation at the expense of places like Blackburn.

Joe public has realised this and revolted.

A man of your intelligence should have worked this out by now.

How ever it won't make much difference now as the EU is in the beginning of the end

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/696002/European-Union-EU-close-death-Canada-trade-deal-collapses-Brexit-Demarty-Juncker

The populations of both countries is roughly equal, there is a narrow gap in immigration, and France is a far more rural/ agricultural economy than the UK.

France is more tradionally reticent to change, and is proud of its architecture/ culture / countryside - whereas especially in the northern parts of the UK we aren't. Would the monstrous bus station in Preston be built in France or Sussex?

Exactly my point, we are to easy going and certain people take advantage.

The French have their moments

https://www.understandfrance.org/Paris/UglyParis.html

[Baz]

Exactly my point, we are to easy going and certain people take advantage

At times, but then again being stubborn for the sake of it can have negative effects too. We are just different to the French.

[yoda]

At times, but then again being stubborn for the sake of it can have negative effects too. We are just different to the French.

I think we can agree on that

[Al]

The populations of both countries is roughly equal, there is a narrow gap in immigration, and France is a far more rural/ agricultural economy than the UK.

France is more tradionally reticent to change, and is proud of its architecture/ culture / countryside - whereas especially in the northern parts of the UK we aren't. Would the monstrous bus station in Preston be built in France or Sussex?

Better that minarets.

Populations may be similar but available space is nothing like the same. There is plenty of room in France but the UK is full. We should be more reticent to change too. Why should we be expected to change to accommodate immigrants that we did not invite anyway? Surely it's the immigrants who should be willing to change if they want to live here not the indigenous population. Don't tell me that many Muslims were born here. You know the point I am making.

[yoda]

At times, but then again being stubborn for the sake of it can have negative effects too. We are just different to the French.

Only the French could throw their own product away in protest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36978516

[Baz]

Only the French could throw their own product away in protest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36978516

This could be the next big thing - the French wine tsunami.

[yoda]

This could be the next big thing - the French wine tsunami.

Life's a beach

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/696548/Brexit-seaside-Italy-beaches-Liguria-Genoa-British-flag-protest-EU-law-concessions

[Baz]

Better that minarets.

Populations may be similar but available space is nothing like the same. There is plenty of room in France but the UK is full. We should be more reticent to change too. Why should we be expected to change to accommodate immigrants that we did not invite anyway? Surely it's the immigrants who should be willing to change if they want to live here not the indigenous population. Don't tell me that many Muslims were born here. You know the point I am making.

I think it depends on what you want them to change Al.

Of course they should want to integrate, but in my opinion they should also be allowed to practice their own cultures, religions and beliefs, so long as they aren't harming anyone, or are contrary to British law, culture or values. Historically that has always been the British way, and has improved our country. Just because a different country may do things differently to us, it doesn't make them right, or us wrong.

If you take countries that arent tolerant of other peoples values, beliefs etc, then you are looking at some of the worst countries on Earth (Saudi etc). I don't think any of us would want to use them as a model.

Regarding the UK being full, I don't agree. I do think we need a massive investment in our public services (schools, roads, housing, hospitals etc) to help catch up with the immigration we have seen, and a more even spread of companies, population etc away from big cities.

[Baz]

Life's a beach

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/696548/Brexit-seaside-Italy-beaches-Liguria-Genoa-British-flag-protest-EU-law-concessions

Italian politics baffle me. Even Italians dont know how Burlesconi has been elected so many times.

I'm buying Pizza to show solidarity.

[yoda]

I think it depends on what you want them to change Al.

Of course they should want to integrate, but in my opinion they should also be allowed to practice their own cultures, religions and beliefs, so long as they aren't harming anyone, or are contrary to British law, culture or values. Historically that has always been the British way, and has improved our country. Just because a different country may do things differently to us, it doesn't make them right, or us wrong.

If you take countries that arent tolerant of other peoples values, beliefs etc, then you are looking at some of the worst countries on Earth (Saudi etc). I don't think any of us would want to use them as a model.

Regarding the UK being full, I don't agree. I do think we need a massive investment in our public services (schools, roads, housing, hospitals etc) to help catch up with the immigration we have seen, and a more even spread of companies, population etc away from big cities.

That is the key to making the UK inclusive

Italian politics baffle me. Even Italians dont know how Burlesconi has been elected so many times.

I'm buying Pizza to show solidarity.

I have said it before and will say it again,

the tomato and garlic foccaccia at Checcos, Harwood bar is the best in the world,

I want minimum 2 or 3 right now,

washed down with Chianti of course

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

And some Fava Beans I assume.

[Mike E]

I think it depends on what you want them to change Al.

Of course they should want to integrate, but in my opinion they should also be allowed to practice their own cultures, religions and beliefs, so long as they aren't harming anyone, or are contrary to British law, culture or values. Historically that has always been the British way, and has improved our country. Just because a different country may do things differently to us, it doesn't make them right, or us wrong.

If you take countries that arent tolerant of other peoples values, beliefs etc, then you are looking at some of the worst countries on Earth (Saudi etc). I don't think any of us would want to use them as a model.

Regarding the UK being full, I don't agree. I do think we need a massive investment in our public services (schools, roads, housing, hospitals etc) to help catch up with the immigration we have seen, and a more even spread of companies, population etc away from big cities.

I agree that services could do with greater investment, but where will that money come from?

Options are all unappealing to many:

Borrow more?

Increase taxation?

Reduce/increase immigration to lessen the burden/increase money to be taxed, depending on your POV?

I have to say, of those, I'd be most in favour of a taxation change. What would work realistically, I have no clue.

[Baz]

I agree that services could do with greater investment, but where will that money come from?

Options are all unappealing to many:

Borrow more?

Increase taxation?

Reduce/increase immigration to lessen the burden/increase money to be taxed, depending on your POV?

I have to say, of those, I'd be most in favour of a taxation change. What would work realistically, I have no clue.

There are always choices, Id also go for increased tax, as long as the government was a lot tougher on those companies who don't play fair.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I agree that services could do with greater investment, but where will that money come from?

Options are all unappealing to many:

Borrow more?

Increase taxation?

Reduce/increase immigration to lessen the burden/increase money to be taxed, depending on your POV?

I have to say, of those, I'd be most in favour of a taxation change. What would work realistically, I have no clue.

Falls into 2 basic brackets. Increase the money available for the government to spend or decrease the amount it's spending.

Peoples' viewpoints on which to do almost invariably tend to be influenced by self-interest or interest of close family members. From my experience if someone works in the public sector or has close family members that do/did, they're generally for higher taxation and/or higher borrowing. Equally if you're not in that situation (and particularly if you/close family members are self-employed), then you don't want higher taxes, you want lower government spending.

The tribal nature of this argument is pretty understandable considering in both cases you're effectively taking money one group to give to another.

Which is why, in my opinion, a government should always do both in equal measure. If a public service, like say the NHS, is failing then by all means raise taxes but at the same time also stamp out areas that are ineffeicient of overspending. E.g. paying a fortune in overtime, allowing newly arrived immigrants access to it, retaining incompetent or forever absent staff indefinitely because it's considered not worth taking on the unions.

Do both and neither side will be completely happy but won't be completely unhappy either. One thing I personally wouldn't ever do is increase borrowing. A £1.56 trillion debt that is currently costing 5% of the budget just to pay the interest on doesn't need adding to.

[yoda]

And some Fava Beans I assume.

Or stick with Amarone

[Al]

I think it depends on what you want them to change Al.

Of course they should want to integrate, but in my opinion they should also be allowed to practice their own cultures, religions and beliefs, so long as they aren't harming anyone, or are contrary to British law, culture or values. Historically that has always been the British way, and has improved our country. Just because a different country may do things differently to us, it doesn't make them right, or us wrong.

If you take countries that arent tolerant of other peoples values, beliefs etc, then you are looking at some of the worst countries on Earth (Saudi etc). I don't think any of us would want to use them as a model.

Regarding the UK being full, I don't agree. I do think we need a massive investment in our public services (schools, roads, housing, hospitals etc) to help catch up with the immigration we have seen, and a more even spread of companies, population etc away from big cities.

The bit in bold is exactly what I mean. So we agree?

[Baz]

The bit in bold is exactly what I mean. So we agree?

I think from the discussions on here that we will have different opinions / tolerances to the bits in bold (and I think that would be true of every single person in the country,) but as an overall thing - then it appears so. :smiley face: (still no idea how to do them on the iPad)

[yoda]

Bitchfest in Scotland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37158722

[Al]

Bitchfest in Scotland

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37158722

She just wants an independent Scotland so that she can be president (Queen). Bitch!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The SNP should make their party slogan "We Stand Against Democracy".

[K-Hod]

They seem to have a very strange relationship with the truth and reality, that's for certain.

[Amo]

Sorry Al, but K-Hod has at no point used his position as mod to benefit JBizzle, as that comment suggests. You're better than that.

With all due respect, Mike, I know for a fact that isn't true.